Ranking Dubas' worst transactions - #4 (CLOSED)

[notbias]

What do you mean by "great", and "best"? I mean that with all due respect. I did not see how each one had an impact. I hope they prove me wrong though. If you are implying that we got players for cheap, then I fail to see that. A 1st, a 2nd, and 2 prospects is still quite a cost.

Gogolev and Anderson are not really losses, I'd probably take the 5ths over them at this point.

McCabe is impactful and is great value at 2 million, even if he is a 4/5.

Lafferty is a really good 4th liner.

What impact were you hoping to see?

I prefer spending a 1st and 2nd on players with some term, which is why I rate this move much higher than a lot of others.

 

[seventieslord]

Mason Marchment is a 28 year old with 89 career points.

Who cares? Why is that even on the list as an option?

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Gogolev and Anderson are not really losses, I'd probably take the 5ths over them at this point.

McCabe is impactful and is great value at 2 million, even if he is a 4/5.

Lafferty is a really good 4th liner.

What impact were you hoping to see?

I prefer spending a 1st and 2nd on players with some term, which is why I rate this move much higher than a lot of others.

Well Rielly played great in last year's playoffs (11 games, 12 points ). I know that McCabe is a defensive defenseman, with less minutes, but was he impactful in comparison?

Outside of how much he is worth ($4 million with CHI eating 50%), is he really good? It would be difficult to label his performance "impactful".

 

[LeafEgo]

Yzerman was considered one of the best GMs and he has never won a cup, his latest tenure with Tampa was a first round sweep, and Detroit has not looked good since he got there, failure?

You might be used to the Lou Lam / Mike Babs rebuild timeline. It typically takes more than a few years though. Wings have gone 39, 48, 74, to 80 pts under Yzerman. There hasn't been an expectation to win a cup, that's silly, and they're not moving sideways each year.

Bad luck in the lottery, but he hand scouted Seider and shocked everyone by selecting him in the top ten - seems to be developing into a #1D.

Pressure will start to mount if they don't become honest contenders in the next couple years.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Mason Marchment is a 28 year old with 89 career points.

Who cares? Why is that even on the list as an option?

Some people think he's good. So did I until I saw him in the playoffs with Dallas. He was shockingly bad.

 

[LeafEgo]

What do you mean by "great", and "best"? I mean that with all due respect. I did not see how each one had an impact. I hope they prove me wrong though. If you are implying that we got players for cheap, then I fail to see that. A 1st, a 2nd, and 2 prospects is still quite a cost.

Chicago retained like 5M in total. McCabe himself was almost free, and he was in demand at the tdl. Maybe we weren't in a position to move a 1st, but the transaction itself was pretty good dollar for dollar.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Chicago retained like 5M in total. McCabe himself was almost free, and he was in demand at the tdl. Maybe we weren't in a position to move a 1st, but the transaction itself was pretty good dollar for dollar.

If they both played well I might let Dubas and his support off the hook. I just wanted more. I hope they prove me wrong. I never really saw either player do much. I would even say McCabe struggled at times.

 

[Bomber0104]

Some people think he's good. So did I until I saw him in the playoffs with Dallas. He was shockingly bad.

And for how bad you think this player is watching in your living room, Denis Malgin is easily 5x worse....

You won't even be able to watch all 5'8 of Denis Malgin anymore on TV, that's just how much worse he is and how bad of a trade that was.

It won't be long before the 5'10 and under obsession Dubas created here in Toronto subsides, thankfully.

 

[mikeyz]

I don't get why Tavares contract is ranked #1.

At the time of the contract 99.9% of Leafs fans were happy with it. Why are we judging it as a bad move 6 years later as hindsight.

Getting a huge free agent to take less money to come home to Toronto who went on to produce PPG in Toronto as Captain.

I don't think it's fair to judge the moves by hindsight, instead judge it by if you thought it was a bad move when it happened. I.E protect Holl, or the Foligno trade, etc. Where majority were against the move.

Yes. But it was the ripple effect that followed that alot of people had a problem with. The JT signing clearly gave Matthews and Marner the mindset that they weren't going to play 2nd and 3rd fiddle salary wise to him.

 

[BigBlu]

I just don't see a lot of bad moves here, sorry that you disagree.

And I haven't seen any Cups at all.

 

[keonsbitterness]

And for how bad you think this player is watching in your living room, Denis Malgin is easily 5x worse....

You won't even be able to watch all 5'8 of Denis Malgin anymore on TV, that's just how much worse he is and how bad of a trade that was.

It won't be long before the 5'10 and under obsession Dubas created here in Toronto subsides, thankfully.

5x nothing is still nothing. And we're not seeing Malgin because no one was stupid enough to pay him 4 @ $4.5m.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I don't get why Tavares contract is ranked #1.

At the time of the contract 99.9% of Leafs fans were happy with it. Why are we judging it as a bad move 6 years later as hindsight.

Getting a huge free agent to take less money to come home to Toronto who went on to produce PPG in Toronto as Captain.

I don't think it's fair to judge the moves by hindsight, instead judge it by if you thought it was a bad move when it happened. I.E protect Holl, or the Foligno trade, etc. Where majority were against the move.

I don't think 99.9% were happy with it - there were quite a few, myself included, who didn't like it from the start.

Signing a slow 2C who didn't want to go anywhere else for that amount and term was not what the team needed. The fact that more and more people are realizing that in hindsight doesn't mean it was right at the time, just that they were wrong.

He doesn't seem to have been a particularly effective captain, and his almost ppg is largely due to playing on one of the best PPs, and spending all his ES time with one or the other of two of the best set up men in the league.

 

[Dreakmur]

I'm not a Dubas-ite by any stretch, but the Marleau situation was ALL Lou. No way in hell he should have signed a 35+ player on the downside of his career, playing out the string to reach a useless milestone...let alone paying said player over 6 mil for 3 YEARS! Talk about screwing the cap. If Marleau is signed to a reasonable 2 or 3 mil for 2 years, as he should have been, we could have kept him or dealt him off at the end of his contract for something. Instead, Dubas inherits a millstone that handicapped him and forced him to give up a pick to dump the contract. Its amazing people scream about giving Reaves 3 years at 1.3, and we don't hear a peep about that Marleau debacle.
And BTW...if you don't think Marleau was in M&M's ear telling them that they should push for the most they can squeeze out of management, then you're as delusional as Uncle Lou was when he offered that deal.

It wasn’t a problem until we signed Tavares and rushed into win now mode too early.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

It wasn’t a problem until we signed Tavares and rushed into win now mode too early.

Agreed. I still wish we had a few of the older players, plus have the cap space to keep Hyman, Mikheyev, etc. The rush to sign all the skilled players just stunted any success.

 

[nuck]

I don't see how the Murray trade "worked out" to be that bad. Was there a player in FA that we passed on to get him instead? We got a 3rd + 7th. He is now on LTIR, we didn't have to buy him out in the end, and lose cap space next year. Time to move on.

But he wasn't an FA and a bunch of goalies moved last summer, he was far from the only option. His collapse was quite predictable and should have made his acquisition a non starter. He is the type of guy you sign after a buyout because 50% retention wouldn't have been enough. He was supposed to be the #1 and wasn't there in the playoffs so if you are saying they would have gone down to the Panthers no matter who was in net, then the trade did "work out" fine I guess, but I don't think the plan was ever to have to run with Samsonov in the playoffs.

 

[AcerComputer]

But he wasn't an FA and a bunch of goalies moved last summer, he was far from the only option. His collapse was quite predictable and should have made his acquisition a non starter. He is the type of guy you sign after a buyout because 50% retention wouldn't have been enough. He was supposed to be the #1 and wasn't there in the playoffs so if you are saying they would have gone down to the Panthers no matter who was in net, then the trade did "work out" fine I guess, but I don't think the plan was ever to have to run with Samsonov in the playoffs.

I meant, who were the Leafs going tonuse that cap space on in FA that was a better option.

 

[PromisedLand]

If nobody knew before they should know now that life is unfair

you have a guy who was nothing but absolutely incompetent, made a scene, got told good bye and then got another gig at a higher position.

Hilarious and sad at the same time

 

[The Iceman]

I'm not a Dubas-ite by any stretch, but the Marleau situation was ALL Lou. No way in hell he should have signed a 35+ player on the downside of his career, playing out the string to reach a useless milestone...let alone paying said player over 6 mil for 3 YEARS! Talk about screwing the cap. If Marleau is signed to a reasonable 2 or 3 mil for 2 years, as he should have been, we could have kept him or dealt him off at the end of his contract for something. Instead, Dubas inherits a millstone that handicapped him and forced him to give up a pick to dump the contract. Its amazing people scream about giving Reaves 3 years at 1.3, and we don't hear a peep about that Marleau debacle.
And BTW...if you don't think Marleau was in M&M's ear telling them that they should push for the most they can squeeze out of management, then you're as delusional as Uncle Lou was when he offered that deal.

AGREED
And he hasn't learned from past mistakes. Look at his NYI contracts.
Loaded with similar long deals carrying players way past their value.

 

[Cams]

The Marleau trade was on Lou. It was even reported at the time of the signing that speculation was he was only going to play the 2 years, pretty sure this was on TSN.

Kadri - I still say he played himself out of town with selfish stupidity in the playoffs, then does it again his first year in Colorado. How many more chances was he supposed to get?

Foligno didn't work out...gave up a lot for nothing. How informed were the Leafs on his nagging injury, and also getting what was usually a very effective Riley Nash in that trade and he basically didn't even play. That was bad.

Marchment - I'm sick of this back and forth on this. He was never going to play on the Leafs, he had many chances to stick on the team and couldn't. Maybe he wanted a chance of scenery and forced the Leafs to move him. If he didn't go on the crazy point streak, nobody would be talking about this. It's not like he is a Tom Wilson power forward.

Murray was a big gamble that didn't work out....kind of wondered why you are taking a chance on a guy so injury prone.

Mrazek I though was a good signing at the time. He was great in junior, and was a good goalie on a a terrible Detroit team. Who would have thought he forgets how to play hockey in Toronto.

One thing I don't understand too on here is so many people complaining about giving up picks/prospects for vets.....isn't that what 100 point teams going for a cup do? What's the obsession with pertpetual rebuild.....(trading pending UFA's for futures, instead of trading futures for pending UFA's).

McCann - to me this is neither good or bad - nobody saw him scoring 40. and he for sure wouldn't have done so on the Leafs. He was an extra body for expansion draft.

His failure(s) are the 2 big contracts (but it's not like he sat down with them one on one, the agents are to blame too), and also not being able to get the right kind of player(s) at crucial times. Who said GMing is easy though. Could've /should've/would've is easy to play.

 

[ACC1224]

The Marleau trade was on Lou. It was even reported at the time of the signing that speculation was he was only going to play the 2 years, pretty sure this was on TSN.

Kadri - I still say he played himself out of town with selfish stupidity in the playoffs, then does it again his first year in Colorado. How many more chances was he supposed to get?

Foligno didn't work out...gave up a lot for nothing. How informed were the Leafs on his nagging injury, and also getting what was usually a very effective Riley Nash in that trade and he basically didn't even play. That was bad.

Marchment - I'm sick of this back and forth on this. He was never going to play on the Leafs, he had many chances to stick on the team and couldn't. Maybe he wanted a chance of scenery and forced the Leafs to move him. If he didn't go on the crazy point streak, nobody would be talking about this. It's not like he is a Tom Wilson power forward.

Murray was a big gamble that didn't work out....kind of wondered why you are taking a chance on a guy so injury prone.

Mrazek I though was a good signing at the time. He was great in junior, and was a good goalie on a a terrible Detroit team. Who would have thought he forgets how to play hockey in Toronto.

One thing I don't understand too on here is so many people complaining about giving up picks/prospects for vets.....isn't that what 100 point teams going for a cup do? What's the obsession with pertpetual rebuild.....(trading pending UFA's for futures, instead of trading futures for pending UFA's).

McCann - to me this is neither good or bad - nobody saw him scoring 40. and he for sure wouldn't have done so on the Leafs. He was an extra body for expansion draft.

His failure(s) are the 2 big contracts (but it's not like he sat down with them one on one, the agents are to blame too), and also not being able to get the right kind of player(s) at crucial times. Who said GMing is easy though. Could've /should've/would've is easy to play.

Lou Lam signed him but Dubas traded him.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Lou Lam signed him but Dubas traded him.

Dubas had to trade him because Lou signed him, even though Lou knew he would have to be traded before the 3rd year.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Dubas had to trade him because Lou signed him, even though Lou knew he would have to be traded before the 3rd year.

Wouldn't have had to if he hadn't messed up everything by signing Tavares.

 

[ACC1224]

Wouldn't have had to if he hadn't messed up everything by signing Tavares.

Yep putting yourself in the position where you ‘had to’ do something was the problem.
There are about 3 people left who haven’t figured that out yet.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Wouldn't have had to if he hadn't messed up everything by signing Tavares.

Nothing was messed up by signing Tavares. A GM cannot just stop building his team and not replace the impact of departing players, in order to carry around a 6.25m on-ice liability in the future. Lou signed Marleau, with full knowledge of the consequences. Lou is to blame. Most people realize this.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Nothing was messed up by signing Tavares. A GM cannot just stop building his team and not replace the impact of departing players, in order to carry around a 6.25m on-ice liability in the future. Lou signed Marleau, with full knowledge of the consequences. Lou is to blame. Most people realize this.

Actually, most people seem to realize just the opposite. You should actually read and try to understand what most posters here are saying.