Ranking Dubas' worst transactions - #4 (CLOSED)

[notDatsyuk]

Unlike a lot of people on this board, I have no love or hate for people I don't know, I think it is very weird that so many do.

I just don't see a lot of bad moves here, sorry that you disagree.

I find it very weird that people say things like this instead of addressing what I post, I usually assume they think I am right, but hate the person who made the moves so can't admit it.

I also like most of Treliving's moves so far, can I cheer for the Leafs too?

If his moves don't bring a lot of success is he going to be hated as much as Dubas? I have my doubts.

I don't think it's love or hate so much as an objective ability to see what mistakes were made.

If you don't see a lot of bad moves, then perhaps you should change your username.

It's not that you are right, but that it seems pointless to try to debate such bias, especially for the hundredth time.

I personally haven't seen much to really like from Tre yet, so I'll reserve judgement. He's starting in a much worse position than Dubas, so it may take a while to see positive results.

 

[Racer88]

So far

1. Signing a player that most people wanted and virtually every GM would do
2. Overpaying a star player by ~1 million
3. Trading a player who could not be trusted, who also got suspended with his new team

This list is laughable so far

The Murray trade is no longer bad.
Marleau is thanks to Lou, if you think otherwise, then everything happening with our stars now is on Treliving.
Foligno they overpaid by probably a 4th.
Marchment is not good.
McCann is a playoff no-show (conveniently doesn't matter for some now).
Matthews is not a bad contract.
Mrazek was a bad contract in hindsight, he was a decent goalie but probably given too much.

Well I guess that settles that then……Dubas has never done anything wrong and we have the success to prove it……right…….oh wait never mind

 

[notbias]

Well I guess that settles that then……Dubas has never done anything wrong and we have the success to prove it……right…….oh wait never mind

He's done wrong, I listed some things there.

I have definitely said negative things about the moves he's made.

The first three listed are laughable.

Being a good GM does not mean you win every year, this is such an idiotic take.

I don't think it's love or hate so much as an objective ability to see what mistakes were made.

If you don't see a lot of bad moves, then perhaps you should change your username.

It's not that you are right, but that it seems pointless to try to debate such bias, especially for the hundredth time.

I personally haven't seen much to really like from Tre yet, so I'll reserve judgement. He's starting in a much worse position than Dubas, so it may take a while to see positive results.

I listed bad moves.

Tre is starting in a better position.

Actually, it depends on the thread, either Dubas inherited the best crop of ELCs in the NHL or the biggest playoff flops in the NHL, depends on what point you're trying to make.

The big difference between Dubas and Tre starting out is that Dubas left no bad contracts and a much better goalie and D situation.

Nice to see you are already making excuses though, I am sure if the Leafs do anything everyone will say it is because of Tre, not that he inherited Dubas' team.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I find it very weird that people say things like this instead of addressing what I post, I usually assume they think I am right, but hate the person who made the moves so can't admit it.

Bingo. They have nothing to dispute the post, but they can't bring themselves to admit that they were wrong, so they go after the poster.

If his moves don't bring a lot of success is he going to be hated as much as Dubas? I have my doubts.

Of course not. He's not young. They'll just continue to blame Dubas.

 

[kevsh]

and say Murray wasn't really all that awful.

I should have clarified: The Murray trade was not a disaster at the time it was made or in retrospect based on his play, which was mostly fine, it was that he had a very recent, lengthy and therefore worrisome track record of not being able to stay healthy.

For a team that really needed to win, he was simply too big of a gamble with a very small likelihood of paying off. And boy did that gamble not pay off.

 

[LeafalCrusader]

Matthews contract which triggered the Marner contract which then cost the Leafs Hymen and Marchment as there were no funds to pay either player and will now likely cost Nylander as well.

Way to go you moron.

This.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I listed bad moves.

Tre is starting in a better position.

Actually, it depends on the thread, either Dubas inherited the best crop of ELCs in the NHL or the biggest playoff flops in the NHL, depends on what point you're trying to make.

The big difference between Dubas and Tre starting out is that Dubas left no bad contracts and a much better goalie and D situation.

Nice to see you are already making excuses though, I am sure if the Leafs do anything everyone will say it is because of Tre, not that he inherited Dubas' team.

The ' bad moves' you listed were Folingo and Marchment, but you think Tavares, Marner and Kadri weren't?

Yes, Dubas inherited a team with three very good players on ELCs, but then totally messed up by signing a 2C they didn't need for way too much, badly overpaid two of the ELCs (and didn't get max term, and gave them NMCs), and had to give away, among others, their current 2C.

Tre inherited at least two bad contracts (on full NMCs), no better defence, marginally better goaltending (but only because Dubas' big acquisition is on LTIR), and a depleted farm system.

I'm not making excuses, but I'm also not looking at it through Dubas-coloured glasses.

 

[Racer88]

He's done wrong, I listed some things there.

I have definitely said negative things about the moves he's made.

The first three listed are laughable.

Being a good GM does not mean you win every year, this is such an idiotic take.



I listed bad moves.

Tre is starting in a better position.

Actually, it depends on the thread, either Dubas inherited the best crop of ELCs in the NHL or the biggest playoff flops in the NHL, depends on what point you're trying to make.

The big difference between Dubas and Tre starting out is that Dubas left no bad contracts and a much better goalie and D situation.

Nice to see you are already making excuses though, I am sure if the Leafs do anything everyone will say it is because of Tre, not that he inherited Dubas' team.

I’m not expecting them to win every year but 1 first round win in 7 years……….total failure

 

[LeafsNation149]

I don't get why Tavares contract is ranked #1.

At the time of the contract 99.9% of Leafs fans were happy with it. Why are we judging it as a bad move 6 years later as hindsight.

Getting a huge free agent to take less money to come home to Toronto who went on to produce PPG in Toronto as Captain.

I don't think it's fair to judge the moves by hindsight, instead judge it by if you thought it was a bad move when it happened. I.E protect Holl, or the Foligno trade, etc. Where majority were against the move.

 

[notbias]

The ' bad moves' you listed were Folingo and Marchment, but you think Tavares, Marner and Kadri weren't?

Yes, Dubas inherited a team with three very good players on ELCs, but then totally messed up by signing a 2C they didn't need for way too much, badly overpaid two of the ELCs (and didn't get max term, and gave them NMCs), and had to give away, among others, their current 2C.

Tre inherited at least two bad contracts (on full NMCs), no better defence, marginally better goaltending (but only because Dubas' big acquisition is on LTIR), and a depleted farm system.

I'm not making excuses, but I'm also not looking at it through Dubas-coloured glasses.

You mention a depleted farm system. Which of the prospects in the farm system Dubas inherited helped the team? Liljegren and Woll?

Badly overpaid 2 ELCs? No, barely overpaid one.

What bad contracts? PPG C and Selke wingers who put up 100pts? Yes, completely comparable to Marleau and Zaitsev (that is Tavares' contract right there)

You are looking at things with delusion, not anything else.

The D is way better, and the fact you can't see that tells me everything I need to know about your hockey knowledge.

Not to mention, Dubas left Tre with a lot of cap to work with.

The D Dubas inherited:

Rielly - Hainsey
Gardiner - Zaitsev
Dermott - Carrick
Borgman, Holl, Marincin

The D Tre inherited:

Rielly - Brodie
McCabe - Liljegren
Gio - Timmins
Kral (should have resigned), Mete, Niemela

 

[notbias]

I’m not expecting them to win every year but 1 first round win in 7 years……….total failure

I can agree that the outcome is a failure. We will likely just disagree on why.

One of the best GMs (Sakic) is basically 10 years of second-round exits or not making the playoffs, and one Cup. That is a success because of how hard it is to win the cup.

Yzerman was considered one of the best GMs and he has never won a cup, his latest tenure with Tampa was a first round sweep, and Detroit has not looked good since he got there, failure?

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

I can agree that the outcome is a failure. We will likely just disagree on why.

One of the best GMs (Sakic) is basically 10 years of second-round exits or not making the playoffs, and one Cup. That is a success because of how hard it is to win the cup.

Yzerman was considered one of the best GMs and he has never won a cup, his latest tenure with Tampa was a first round sweep, and Detroit has not looked good since he got there, failure?

I would say the tide of opinion on Yzerman is slowly shifting away from great. He built some great Tampa line ups and manufactured that dynasty core, but I think people are starting to wonder about this Red Wings rebuild.

 

[notDatsyuk]

You mention a depleted farm system. Which of the prospects in the farm system Dubas inherited helped the team? Liljegren and Woll?

Badly overpaid 2 ELCs? No, barely overpaid one.

What bad contracts? PPG C and Selke wingers who put up 100pts? Yes, completely comparable to Marleau and Zaitsev (that is Tavares' contract right there)

You are looking at things with delusion, not anything else.

The D is way better, and the fact you can't see that tells me everything I need to know about your hockey knowledge.

Not to mention, Dubas left Tre with a lot of cap to work with.

The D Dubas inherited:

Rielly - Hainsey
Gardiner - Zaitsev
Dermott - Carrick
Borgman, Holl, Marincin

The D Tre inherited:

Rielly - Brodie
McCabe - Liljegren
Gio - Timmins
Kral (should have resigned), Mete, Niemela

Considering how many picks and prospects Dubas traded away for quick fixes (that didn't work), how's the farm now? And the only reason Tre had cap space is because the players Dubas traded for didn't want to stay here.

I know I can't convince you that Matthews and Marner were badly overpaid on their ELCs, or that Tavares was and still is a mistake. I don't know why you can't see it when virtually everyone else can, but that's your problem.

The fact you can't see that the D isn't much better at all tells me everything I need to know about your hockey knowledge.

 

[ToneDog]

The ' bad moves' you listed were Folingo and Marchment, but you think Tavares, Marner and Kadri weren't?

Yes, Dubas inherited a team with three very good players on ELCs, but then totally messed up by signing a 2C they didn't need for way too much, badly overpaid two of the ELCs (and didn't get max term, and gave them NMCs), and had to give away, among others, their current 2C.

Tre inherited at least two bad contracts (on full NMCs), no better defence, marginally better goaltending (but only because Dubas' big acquisition is on LTIR), and a depleted farm system.

I'm not making excuses, but I'm also not looking at it through Dubas-coloured glasses.

The usual suspects will argue that the team Dumbass left was better than the one he inherited. LOL. At this point I want to see how they fit Klingberg in, how he revamps the D, how much he pays 34 and what he does with Willie. I try my best to stop feeding the Dubas trolls. No true Leafs fan should be defending the idiot.

 

[ACC1224]

I would say the tide of opinion on Yzerman is slowly shifting away from great. He built some great Tampa line ups and manufactured that dynasty core, but I think people are starting to wonder about this Red Wings rebuild.

Who cares about other GMs? Everything is always deflected away from Teflon Dubas by either bringing up another GM or a former Leaf one.

 

[notbias]

Who cares about other GMs? Everything is always deflected away from Teflon Dubas by either bringing up another GM or a former Leaf one.

How about the current one? I have been told I can't even speak about his TERRIBLE track record.

 

[Antropovsky]

Matthews contract which triggered the Marner contract which then cost the Leafs Hymen and Marchment as there were no funds to pay either player and will now likely cost Nylander as well.

Way to go you moron.

Didn't cost the Leafs Marchment. He only played 4 games for the Leafs. Dubas traded Marchment for Malgin probably because he prefers puck movement and seemed to be experimenting with making grit/toughness as the last priority.

If Dubas had actually played Marchment, and kept him on the 4th line, Marchment probably would've been content signlong-termterm at a 4th line player.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Replacing Babcock with Keefe should probably place higher than fourth but I didn't think of it until now.

Going from a strict disciplinarian HOF head coach, to a rookie butt kissing brown noser, wasn't the smartest transaction.

Even if it was time for Babcock to go Keefe still wasn't the right choice. Continuity of mediocrity is not something most professional sports teams strive for. There’s no getting around the fact the team has stalled the last four years.

Keefe is part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Dubas and Keefe were destined for each other. One is brainwashed. The other brain damaged.

Between the pair there isn't a working brain.

Which is why I fully expect Dubas to double down on stupid and hire Keefe again. The best indicator of future behaviour is past behaviour. History has a tendency to repeat itself and all.

It's only a matter of time before this lame duck coach becomes a lame penguin too.

Birds of a feather flock together.

 

[ToneDog]

Replacing Babcock with Keefe should probably place higher than fourth but I didn't think of it until now.

Going from a strict disciplinarian HOF head coach, to a rookie butt kissing brown noser, wasn't the smartest transaction.

Even if it was time for Babcock to go Keefe still wasn't the right choice. Continuity of mediocrity is not something most professional sports teams strive for. There’s no getting around the fact the team has stalled the last four years.

Keefe is part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Dubas and Keefe were destined for each other. One is brainwashed. The other brain damaged.

Between the pair there isn't a working brain.

Which is why I fully expect Dubas to double down on stupid and hire Keefe again. The best indicator of future behaviour is past behaviour. History has a tendency to repeat itself and all.

It's only a matter of time before this lame duck coach becomes a lame penguin too.

Birds of a feather flock together.

Replacing Babs with Keefe goes hand in hand with replacing Lou with Kyle. Babs and Kyle was never going to work. Shanny lost his fricken mind in the days leading to the Dubas hiring. Wonder if he regrets it now. He should. In fact, his head should also have rolled along with Dubas.

 

[Racer88]

I can agree that the outcome is a failure. We will likely just disagree on why.

One of the best GMs (Sakic) is basically 10 years of second-round exits or not making the playoffs, and one Cup. That is a success because of how hard it is to win the cup.

Yzerman was considered one of the best GMs and he has never won a cup, his latest tenure with Tampa was a first round sweep, and Detroit has not looked good since he got there, failure?

I’m sure one of us is correct but I’m not honestly sure which one of us is, but for the love of God can they get it figured out

 

[Ianturnedbull]

That Foligno trade was beyond atrocious, probably should be top 3 tbh

Agreed, but try this on for size:

To TOR
McCabe (50% retained)
Lafferty
5th round pick 24 (conditional)
5th round pick 25 (conditional)

To CHI
1st round pick in 25 (conditional)
2nd round pick in 26
Joey Anderson
Pavel Gogolev

 

[Larcos_Unal]

Agreed, but try this on for size:

To TOR
McCabe (50% retained)
Lafferty
5th round pick 24 (conditional)
5th round pick 25 (conditional)

To CHI
1st round pick in 25 (conditional)
2nd round pick in 26
Joey Anderson
Pavel Gogolev

Not great, however McCabe at $2M for another 2 years is a pretty decent score...even if he had a tough postseason

 

[AcerComputer]

I don't see how the Murray trade "worked out" to be that bad. Was there a player in FA that we passed on to get him instead? We got a 3rd + 7th. He is now on LTIR, we didn't have to buy him out in the end, and lose cap space next year. Time to move on.

 

[notbias]

Agreed, but try this on for size:

To TOR
McCabe (50% retained)
Lafferty
5th round pick 24 (conditional)
5th round pick 25 (conditional)

To CHI
1st round pick in 25 (conditional)
2nd round pick in 26
Joey Anderson
Pavel Gogolev

McCabe at 2 million is great value, and for 2 more years... That trade was one of his best, it was great.

Lafferty is still a valuable player at 1 million too.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

McCabe at 2 million is great value, and for 2 more years... That trade was one of his best, it was great.

Lafferty is still a valuable player at 1 million too.

What do you mean by "great", and "best"? I mean that with all due respect. I did not see how each one had an impact. I hope they prove me wrong though. If you are implying that we got players for cheap, then I fail to see that. A 1st, a 2nd, and 2 prospects is still quite a cost.