Post-Game Talk: Rangers @ Sabres -- 4/1/21

[romba]

Yeah, the Pens are the one team I'm worried about. That said we were competitive against them until the last two games. But they did have injuries early on in the season and weren't playing as well.

Pens had half their D early in the season when we 'outplayed' them and still lost. When they were fully armed we had trouble generating anything against them if I recall correctly

 

[duhmetreE]

Kreider Chytil Buchnevich
Panarin Strome Kakko
Lafreniere Zibs Kravtsov
Howden Rooney Blackwell

Roll the top9 evenly. Shorten the bench if needed in crunch time and go to your 'vets'.

PP1
Kreider
Panarin Zibs Kakko
Fox

PP2
Chytil
Strome Laf Buch
Trouba/Miller

play both units and have them play with more urgency

 

[BLOCKERSAVE]

Where's Chytil on your top 12?

 

[LetsGoRangers2021]

Good face off guys still lose a good chunk of them. You can’t look at one play and say ‘that’s the play where a good face off guy would seal the win’, it’s more over the course of a season you see the difference

Agreed. Thus, faceoffs matter. Alot. The most, no, but alot.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Pens had half their D early in the season when we 'outplayed' them and still lost. When they were fully armed we had trouble generating anything against them if I recall correctly

But I think we had Shesterkin and Panarin out for those games. And we "still lost" due to bad goaltending and fluke goals. I think they're the better team but with Panarin and Shesterkin, we're not THAT far from them. I think odds are 50/50, we win 1 game in the back to back.

 

[TheDirtyH]

Huh? Why are you looking at the 2019-2020 season? If you switch it to the 2020-2021 season, it clearly shows that rangers have the youngest team with the average age of 25.32. The next closest is the Devils at 25.56. Again, not a debate. Want to try again?

I mean, you're right, my bad...

But since you asked me to "try again"...

Umm, yes they are: Capitals Enter 2020-21 Season With NHL’s Oldest Roster

And relatively by quite a margin I may add. Being a whole year younger on average than the next youngest team is quite substantial.

That's 5 other teams within a year of the rangers...

 

[LetsGoRangers2021]

Our two top lines aren't playing anymore minutes than any other teams, two top lines. 3rd lines minutes is the best they will get for now. After the roster expansion, all the youngsters will get a good look. Assuming we are mathematically eliminated. This is the NHL, not a prospect's camp.

Exactly.

THE NHL IS NOT A DEVELOPMENT LEAGUE PEOPLE.

This is the big leagues - we are playing to win. Everyone wants Laf and Kak to get 20min.... who are we taking time away from that will actually help us win? Panarin? Buch? Kreider? Those are the only guys above Laf and Kak on the depth chart.

This said, I agree about one thing last night. I would have liked to see Kak and Laf play in OT. 3v3 fits their style MUCH better than Blackwells. I was only thinking, was that a reward for Blackwell's play recently? He HAS stepped it up, again. Laf meanwhile... :/

I am very impressed with KK's play recently... he DEFINATELY should be in there for 3v3. Defensively sound and a good puck handler.

 

[smoneil]

Ordinarily, I read every pgt, but I know what will be said here.
We will rip our team, we will continue to want Quinn fired, we will question everything he did, and didnt do, his minimal minutes to the kids. Rinse and repeat.

I just wanna share one thought. What is Quinn really supposed to do? They DO have some sort of responsibility in "trying to" make the PO's, dont they? A winning culture is imperative and will go a long long way.

Should he be playing the kids on the 1st line and moving our "vets" down, relying on the kids to carry the winning "load"?
We wont win that way. And losing would frustrate EVERYBODY.
Including the people that want what they want.

Every really solid PO bound and cup contender, has many tough decisions to make.
Our Rangers are no exception. There will be seriously tough decisions down the road. A very good problem to have.
Don't ya' think?

But nobody is saying that we should give the kids the MOST minutes. Just more minutes. Nobody is saying that the kids should be on PP1--just that they should be on PP2 and the PP minutes shouldn't be so lopsided. The Quinn crowd always frames it in terms of "winning vs. development." I don't think those are exclusive terms. How does it help "winning" to play a PP1 that is 25th league wide 6+ minutes on the power play? How does it help winning to use journeyman fourth liners more than top draft picks?

My previous post (a page or two ago) answered your question of what Quinn should do. Zib doesn't need to play 25 minutes per game. Strome doesn't need to play 22+ minutes per game (the TOI numbers they had against Buffalo). If you bring Zib to 22 and Strome down to 20, and put the kids on a re-worked PP2, suddenly you have the kids getting 15-16 minutes, including some solid time on the second PP unit. That's not asking them to carry the load. It's playing them like a developing third line rather than giving them 4th line enforcer minutes.

 

[smoneil]

Some of these reactions are amazing. Laff is on the third line because he's the 3rd (maybe 4th) best LW on the team, right now. Same for Chytil. Why the hell should he play more than Zib and Strome? Kakko gets more ice time than those two because, shockingly, he's playing better. Especially Laff, he's a monster on the wall, he sticks his nose into the action everytime he's on the ice. He looks like he wants the puck and he wants to be a difference maker. What's so hard for people to grasp? And if Laff and Chytil are mad about their ice, good, let them get mad and come out the next game and prove the coach wrong. I guarantee you that once Laff plays better than the two guys above him, the coach will gladly give him those minutes. The young guys aren't on the PP 1 because they just aren't better than the guys currently on PP 1 (passed up shots aside), the first unit spend the entire PP in the offensive zone.

The bolded are examples where you are arguing against things that literally nobody is demanding. We're not saying Chytil should be playing more than Zib and Strome. We're saying Chytil should be getting more minutes. His minutes are down by almost a minute and a half from last year, he's been completely removed from the power play, and this is all happening in what has been--in terms of production--his best season by far (pacing for 20+ goals and 40+ points over an 82 game season even with paltry minutes and no pp time). Chytil has been proving it all year, and has timely goals in back to back games. He still gets 4th line goon minutes because the top two lines apparently need to play ~50 minutes of the game to barely beat a team that just lost 18 games in a row. Nobody is demanding that the kids be put on PP1--we're saying they should be on PP2 over guys like Blackwell or Trouba/Miller, and that PP1 shouldn't get 90% of every single power play--especially considering the Rangers' power play is close to dead last in the league (25th league wide).

 

[The New Russian Five]

I mean, you're right, my bad...

But since you asked me to "try again"...



View attachment 416376

That's 5 other teams within a year of the rangers...

Lol you lose the argument, and now are trying to deflect because a different chart shows that they are the youngest team be a fractionally different margin. Whatever, we've veered off the original point so much now, it's no longer worth it.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

The bolded are examples where you are arguing against things that literally nobody is demanding. We're not saying Chytil should be playing more than Zib and Strome. We're saying Chytil should be getting more minutes. His minutes are down by almost a minute and a half from last year, he's been completely removed from the power play, and this is all happening in what has been--in terms of production--his best season by far (pacing for 20+ goals and 40+ points over an 82 game season even with paltry minutes and no pp time). Chytil has been proving it all year, and has timely goals in back to back games. He still gets 4th line goon minutes because the top two lines apparently need to play ~50 minutes of the game to barely beat a team that just lost 18 games in a row. Nobody is demanding that the kids be put on PP1--we're saying they should be on PP2 over guys like Blackwell or Trouba/Miller, and that PP1 shouldn't get 90% of every single power play--especially considering the Rangers' power play is close to dead last in the league (25th league wide).

His minutes come at the expense of other centers. So if you want him to play more you're saying you want guys like Zib and Strome to play less. Their PP has been one of the tops in the league for the last month. Yes they sucked at the beginning of the season, not so much recently. But I agree with your point bout the PP, PP 2 should get more time.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Kreider Chytil Buchnevich
Panarin Strome Kakko
Lafreniere Zibs Kravtsov
Howden Rooney Blackwell

Roll the top9 evenly. Shorten the bench if needed in crunch time and go to your 'vets'.

PP1
Kreider
Panarin Zibs Kakko
Fox

PP2
Chytil
Strome Laf Buch
Trouba/Miller

play both units and have them play with more urgency

Kravtsov is probably already a better PP player than almost everyone on our roster, should def be on it

 

[smoneil]

His minutes come at the expense of other centers. So if you want him to play more you're saying you want guys like Zib and Strome to play less. Their PP has been one of the tops in the league for the last month. Yes they sucked at the beginning of the season, not so much recently. But I agree with your point bout the PP, PP 2 should get more time.

You said we wanted Chytil to play more than Zib and Strome. Nobody said that. Obviously, in a game like the one yesterday, the extra minutes would have come from Zib and Strome. The two of them played nearly two and half periods of the game. Neither should be getting ground down like that, and it's been worse the last dozen games or so. Zibanejad has 12 games this season where he's had more than 21 minutes of TOI. Eight of those games have come in the last 12.

The Rangers power play is 25th in the league. If it had truly been "tops in the league" for the last month, I doubt it would still rank so poor league wide. You have a top 5 PP? Sure, play them the whole two minutes. 25th overall? Get the f***ing second unit out there.

Nobody is saying the kids should be playing more than Zib/Strome, just that the minutes for each line should be a bit more balanced. Some games, the issue is that Quinn grinds the top two lines. Other games, the issue is that Quinn plays his 4th line journeymen more than the kids. The one constant is that Quinn ALWAYS finds a reason to bury some/all of the kids. And the "they need to earn it" line doesn't work--Chytil, as I mentioned earlier, HAS earned it. Laf was brought into the NHL roster. If he's not going to play/get developed, then send him down. He has nothing to learn from the QMJHL, but at least he'd be playing in games. If he's going to be here, he needs to be put in a position to succeed here. Getting one shift a period isn't going to help him at all.

 

[Gluten Free Breadman]

I am pretty sure that the first two shifts of LAF FILIPINO AND GOAT were horrendous. They were hemmed into their own zone, they gave up or were lazy making defensive plays and it led to a goal. Not surprised DQ didnt trust them the rest of the game even though they picked up play in the 2nd and 3rd.

Kakko not getting a shift in OT was almost criminal.

 

[mas0764]

By making the playoffs you help to develop your young players so I’m really not sure what you’re on about. The sooner they see what playoff hockey is like the better and potentially giving away two points to a bottom feeder like Buffalo isn’t going to help anyone’s confidence and if that had happened those griping about Chytil’s and Lafreniere’s ice time would be griping about that instead. Really almost everyone here wanted to see a blowout last night but the Sabres as bad as they may be played pretty well and Tokarski was really good as well as lucky a few times. We should respect all opponents. But a win is a win whether by 5 goals or by 1.

Making the playoffs while playing Lafreniere 8 minutes a night? I don't buy it.

Better to get the kid playing in all situations even if it means they don't make the playoffs.

 

[Rangerfans]

I am pretty sure that the first two shifts of LAF FILIPINO AND GOAT were horrendous. They were hemmed into their own zone, they gave up or were lazy making defensive plays and it led to a goal. Not surprised DQ didnt trust them the rest of the game even though they picked up play in the 2nd and 3rd.

Kakko not getting a shift in OT was almost criminal.

This is blasphemy. The TOI is far more important for the growth of a player(s) game. It is not achieved during the on-ice practice, watching film, or off-ice training.
Sorry. I'll stop being facetious.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

Kravtsov is probably already a better PP player than almost everyone on our roster, should def be on it

I would love to just see him play in a game first.

 

[ohbaby]

Its not an impossibility. Here’s a few suggestions how to change it easily: Give Lafreniere more than one third period shift, put Lafreniere or Kakko on the power play, put Kakko on the penalty kill, stop being afraid to use them in OT, etc.

Done, not impossible at all.

The thing is, the team might lose a game here or there if Lafreniere is out there instead of Strome or Buch.

But that’s what we are arguing doesn’t matter, the incessant drive to make the playoffs at all costs. Boy that 3 game sweep last year was a real learning experience.

Please don't misconstrue what I said. I said almost. Almost an impossibility. Big difference.

You watch a close game like last night, and cry about the minutes, without taking everything in context. Like 4 PP's and OT. That's practically 13 minutes they sat. Then there was how many PK's? And again, it was a tight game with two points on the line. What coach would worry how many minutes a 3rd line would get in this situation? What they get, is what they get. This is the NHL.

Laff is averaging almost 14 minutes per game. Kakko 15 minutes. And Chytil 13+ minutes with a broken thumb. If you ask me, this argument is insanity.

And the coach addressed this last night and he is right. 04.01.21 Postgame: Coach Quinn | NHL.com

 

[egelband]

I just am not sure why Quinn is relying on Kreider last night, he received over 6 Mins on the PP and all he did was stand near the crease. At least when Blackwell was out there on the PP he was moving around the crease. I would think Kakko would have done more than just stand there too.

Is Kreider injured and playing through something? Like that empty net attempt, with his skating he could not have made a better play than just trying to fire it through the defender?

Kreider has definitely been doing his JD Salinger thing lately.

 

[ohbaby]

Ordinarily, I read every pgt, but I know what will be said here.
We will rip our team, we will continue to want Quinn fired, we will question everything he did, and didnt do, his minimal minutes to the kids. Rinse and repeat.

I just wanna share one thought. What is Quinn really supposed to do? They DO have some sort of responsibility in "trying to" make the PO's, dont they? A winning culture is imperative and will go a long long way.

Should he be playing the kids on the 1st line and moving our "vets" down, relying on the kids to carry the winning "load"?
We wont win that way. And losing would frustrate EVERYBODY.

Good post.

 

[ohbaby]

ok. why are 3rd line minutes so much less than 4th line minutes?

They are not. You need to look at the averages, not one measly game.

 

[ohbaby]

Exactly.

THE NHL IS NOT A DEVELOPMENT LEAGUE PEOPLE.

This is the big leagues - we are playing to win. Everyone wants Laf and Kak to get 20min.... who are we taking time away from that will actually help us win? Panarin? Buch? Kreider? Those are the only guys above Laf and Kak on the depth chart.

This said, I agree about one thing last night. I would have liked to see Kak and Laf play in OT. 3v3 fits their style MUCH better than Blackwells. I was only thinking, was that a reward for Blackwell's play recently? He HAS stepped it up, again. Laf meanwhile... :/

I am very impressed with KK's play recently... he DEFINATELY should be in there for 3v3. Defensively sound and a good puck handler.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

And didn't Kakko play in OT last year? Didn't he hook up with Fox for the game winner? He would relish the open ice of 3 on 3 play.

 

[egelband]

That time has to be EARNED!!! There’s a reason why Zibanejad and Panarin got two shifts and so much ice time in OT. Kakko is doing fine and if he continues - he will get his time in OT too. Lafrenière will get there eventually but there’s no reason to GIVE it to him now.

You don’t get desert if you don’t finish your dinner!

 

[aufheben]

That time has to be EARNED!!! There’s a reason why Zibanejad and Panarin got two shifts and so much ice time in OT. Kakko is doing fine and if he continues - he will get his time in OT too. Lafrenière will get there eventually but there’s no reason to GIVE it to him now.

You don’t get desert if you don’t finish your dinner!

Player development here = empty-calorie PP assists.

 

[kovazub94]

View attachment 416453

Player development here = empty-calorie PP assists.

Hey, someone used overwatering plants analogy. Why can’t I use desert?