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Prospect Info: Rangers Prospects Thread (Stats in Post #1; Updated 5.29.18)

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Ola said:
One of the big reasons for why Kevin Hayes refused to sign with Chicago was that they wanted to play him in a Bickel type of LW role. They pushed him hard to play more aggressive and go to the net more.

At least before he had his big breakout in College they didn’t think he had the mobility to ever become a good center in the NHL or more of a goto offensive player. They clashed over it. Hayes had very strong support, I bet those guys told him ‘listen you are tremendously skilled with the puck and your vision is something else [it is] — if Chicago only sees you as a Power Forward LW you don’t have to sign with them’.

Players are asked to assume different roles and play a certain way all the time in the NHL. Sometimes it’s smart sometimes it’s not. It’s far from always good for the career of the player in question.

Howden can for GOOD and bad never become Anders Lee. Much better skater and less physical prescense.

Offensively Howden reminds me a lot of Brandon Sutter. In the way the league looks right now, I think you are hampered by that type of player at center. Not that Sutter is an awful player, but it hurts you a lot if your center face someone that skates and moves the puck better than you and on the good teams the centers just skates and moves the puck really really well.

Just saying, I think Howden has more potential for us as a LW.
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Id rather move Lias to wing, he looks better there
 
Ola said:
One of the big reasons for why Kevin Hayes refused to sign with Chicago was that they wanted to play him in a Bickel type of LW role. They pushed him hard to play more aggressive and go to the net more.

At least before he had his big breakout in College they didn’t think he had the mobility to ever become a good center in the NHL or more of a goto offensive player. They clashed over it. Hayes had very strong support, I bet those guys told him ‘listen you are tremendously skilled with the puck and your vision is something else [it is] — if Chicago only sees you as a Power Forward LW you don’t have to sign with them’.

Players are asked to assume different roles and play a certain way all the time in the NHL. Sometimes it’s smart sometimes it’s not. It’s far from always good for the career of the player in question.

Howden can for GOOD and bad never become Anders Lee. Much better skater and less physical prescense.

Offensively Howden reminds me a lot of Brandon Sutter. In the way the league looks right now, I think you are hampered by that type of player at center. Not that Sutter is an awful player, but it hurts you a lot if your center face someone that skates and moves the puck better than you and on the good teams the centers just skates and moves the puck really really well.

Just saying, I think Howden has more potential for us as a LW.
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Brandon Sutter and Brett Howden look nothing alike based on their WHL and other accomplishments to this point.

They didn’t play the same role, produce the same, or play a style all that similar.

The only thing they have in common is that they are similar builds.
 
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Edge said:
Brandon Sutter and Brett Howden look nothing alike based on their WHL and other accomplishments to this point.

They didn’t play the same role, produce the same, or play a style all that similar.

The only thing they have in common is that they are similar builds.
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who is Howden like?
 
Edge said:
Brandon Sutter and Brett Howden look nothing alike based on their WHL and other accomplishments to this point.

They didn’t play the same role, produce the same, or play a style all that similar.

The only thing they have in common is that they are similar builds.
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Their draft year production in the WHL was about the same. Sutter was 7th overall and went to the NHL after that year.
 
Ola said:
Their draft year production in the WHL was about the same. Sutter was 7th overall and went to the NHL after that year.
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Except this really isn't true and it needs more context. I'll start with Sutter's season the year before his draft and work through his D+2 year. Same for Howden

Sutter's D-2: 46 in 68 for Red Deer with a good U17 tourny but a subpar U18 performance
Draft year: 57 in 71 with another below average performance at the U18s.
D+1 49 in 59 for Red Deer, 2 points in 7 AHL games, and a weak performance at the U20s, although he wore an A.
D+2: 6 points in 50 games for Carolina and 12 points in 22 AHL games with Albany. His D+3 season was the best year of his career and then it was a steady decline from there.

Howden's D-2 year 46 points in 68 games for Moose Jaw, 3 points in 5 games at the U17s and 3 in 3 at the U18s.
Draft year: 64 points in 68 games and a strong U18 performance with 8 points in 6 games.
D+1 year: named captain for Moose Jaw, 81 points in 58 games, 4 points in 5 AHL regular season games and 2 points in 3 AHL playoff games
D+2 year: 75 points in in 49 games for Moose Jaw and the really strong U20 performance for Canada where they won gold.

Idk why you keep trying to knock the kid when you yourself said you've seen him very few times. He's been improving on a yearly basis, has good size, skates well, is smart, and knows how to work the puck down low and around the net. IMO, he'll be a really good 3c, but I don't discount the potential to be a 20-20 C that can anchor a 2nd line. Maybe he'll be like Hayes where he can be a 2C, but gets 3C minutes to cause matchup issues for a team. I get where you're coming from wanting smaller kids that can skate quickly and attack ds with speed 1-on-1, but it's a niche area you're trying to fill and using things like raw height totals as a knock against Howden. It's just a tad silly to me. If he ends up having similar contributions as Hayes, is that really a bad thing?
 
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Ola said:
Their draft year production in the WHL was about the same. Sutter was 7th overall and went to the NHL after that year.
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I think the hope for Sutter was that the offense would develop post draft like it did for Howden. However, it kind of leveled off.

But beyond that, I just don't know if I see the style comparison. Howden is more cerebral, more of a playmaker, and generally speaking has shown more of a scoring touch to this point. Sutter was a support player at the junior level whose game translated well into the same role in the NHL, whereas Howden has typically been more of a driver for Moose Jaw, but has shown the ability to be effective in supporting roles like the WJC.

Of course it remains to be seen whether Howden can translate his game to the NHL level like Sutter did, but I'm not sure there approaches are skill sets are all that similar.
 
Edge said:
I think the hope for Sutter was that the offense would develop post draft like it did for Howden. However, it kind of leveled off.

But beyond that, I just don't know if I see the style comparison. Howden is more cerebral, more of a playmaker, and generally speaking has shown more of a scoring touch to this point. Sutter was a support player at the junior level whose game translated well into the same role in the NHL, whereas Howden has typically been more of a driver for Moose Jaw, but has shown the ability to be effective in supporting roles like the WJC.

Of course it remains to be seen whether Howden can translate his game to the NHL level like Sutter did, but I'm not sure there approaches are skill sets are all that similar.
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We’re gonna have to be the Howden/Farabee apologists for the next decade, aren’t we?
 
Mac- I am not knocking the kid, just giving my view of his potential. Think it’s good to keep the expectations at a reasonable level.

These things tend to go in all kind of reactions. We hype a kid in juniors, the kid comes in and only get a smaller role and a huge chunk of the fans start to blame the coach for it. Or the kid doesn’t put up good stats in the AHL and everyone assume the explanation for it is that he is a cancer — and so forth.

But don’t get me wrong — I think it’s interesting to hear what others have to say and I hope those who view him higher are right and I am wrong! :)
 
Ola said:
Mac- I am not knocking the kid, just giving my view of his potential. Think it’s good to keep the expectations at a reasonable level.

These things tend to go in all kind of reactions. We hype a kid in juniors, the kid comes in and only get a smaller role and a huge chunk of the fans start to blame the coach for it. Or the kid doesn’t put up good stats in the AHL and everyone assume the explanation for it is that he is a cancer — and so forth.

But don’t get me wrong — I think it’s interesting to hear what others have to say and I hope those who view him higher are right and I am wrong! :)
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I’m just arguing against your use of things like raw height totals and pretty incorrect assessments of his playing style, i.e., the power forward discussion we’ve had a while back.

I think we have very object measures of Howden’s year-to-year improvement, so I choose to focus on that, especially when I’ve watched him on a yearly basis. He doesn’t really fit that mold of a flashy juniors player that gets a ton of hype and then fizzles out. He’s consistent and IMO has the skillset that will translate well to the NHL
 
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Nopuckluck said:
There’s actually beginning to be a pretty common bias against high character tough North American kids on this site. It’s real
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Just curious, is it anything like this?

eurosorft_4rotoli.jpg
 
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