Prospect Info: Rangers Prospect Thread (Player Stats/Info in Post #1; Updated 5.12.20)

[Blue Blooded]

”Can Lundkvist play on the left?” Is a very common question these days..

He probably can, but to my knowledge he’s never played a full game at J20 level or higher as an LD. He definitely hasn’t in SHL as he’s Luleås only RHD. Forcing a square peg into a round hole is almost never a good idea.

He’s a pure right handed RD.

If we're moving an RD over it has to be DeAngelo who has significant experience playing the role and is always the LD when we put out an RHD-RHD pairing.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

Skinner and London beat Gross and Oshawa 3-1 last night. Neither had any points.

 

[Fitzy]

We need to keep Nils!
Depth chart in 21-22

Xxx. Trouba
Lindgren. Fox
Ada. Nils.
Ada PP QB.

Miller. Skinner
Robertson
Jones
Rykov
Reuannen

Management seems to have a "We'll cross that bridge when we come to it" mentality with positions and where players fit in, so I'm not as worried as others about them thinking trade based on something as simple as handedness.

 

[True Blue]

If we're moving an RD over it has to be DeAngelo who has significant experience playing the role and is always the LD when we put out an RHD-RHD pairing.

DeAngelo's "tons of experience came in juniors". He is not being moved.

As a matter of fact none of the RD are being moved over to accommodate a prospect who has yet to step a toe onto North American ice. The far, far more likely scenario is that Lundqvist is a part of a package that shores up a weakness.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

DeAngelo's "tons of experience came in juniors". He is not being moved.

As a matter of fact none of the RD are being moved over to accommodate a prospect who has yet to step a toe onto North American ice. The far, far more likely scenario is that Lundqvist is a part of a package that shores up a weakness.

Eh, feels like the opposite to me, in that a guy already on the roster would get moved because they have more value and the money will be more of a wash

 

[kovazub94]

DeAngelo's "tons of experience came in juniors". He is not being moved.

As a matter of fact none of the RD are being moved over to accommodate a prospect who has yet to step a toe onto North American ice. The far, far more likely scenario is that Lundqvist is a part of a package that shores up a weakness.

Eh, feels like the opposite to me, in that a guy already on the roster would get moved because they have more value and the money will be more of a wash

These decisions are interrelated with others, like cap management. If cap space is available Gorton could decided to keep these with proven experience, while go the opposite way under cap squeeze scenario.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

I'm not moving Lundkvist anytime soon unless a legit top pairing LD in his prime becomes available. Lundkvist is one of the best defensive prospects outside of NA

I'm also not entirely convinced Tony is here long term (and by long term I mean 2 years from now).

I could definitely see a mix of things where Tony's salary demands, Fox needing to be paid, and other deals eating up cap requiring the team have a ELC guy like Nils play come together and lead to Tony being moved.

Not saying I agree with it, but I don't think it's unrealistic at all

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

I'm not moving Lundkvist anytime soon unless a legit top pairing LD in his prime becomes available. Lundkvist is one of the best defensive prospects outside of NA

I'm also not entirely convinced Tony is here long term (and by long term I mean 2 years from now).

I could definitely see a mix of things where Tony's salary demands, Fox needing to be paid, and other deals eating up cap requiring the team have a ELC guy like Nils play come together and lead to Tony being moved.

Not saying I agree with it, but I don't think it's unrealistic at all

Also, simple resource allocation.

If the team decides it doesn't want any of the three RD playing on his off side (an eminently reasonable position), it's poor asset allocation to have three A+ guys who can only total 60-65 minutes (counting PP time), while simultaneously playing three C+ guys another 55-60 minutes on the left.

Much better to play 2 of the three a total of ~50 minutes (especially with Lundkvist looking ready to step in and take the remaining time) and devote the third to acquiring a guy who can go play ~25 on the left, who can upgrade that overall contingent to something in the B to B+ range (and hopefully improve from there as the kids come up).

 

[True Blue]

I'm not moving Lundkvist anytime soon unless a legit top pairing LD in his prime becomes available. Lundkvist is one of the best defensive prospects outside of NA

I'm also not entirely convinced Tony is here long term (and by long term I mean 2 years from now).

I could definitely see a mix of things where Tony's salary demands, Fox needing to be paid, and other deals eating up cap requiring the team have a ELC guy like Nils play come together and lead to Tony being moved.

Not saying I agree with it, but I don't think it's unrealistic at all

And I am not moving a young 60 point defenseman just because there is a prospect skating in Sweden.

But let' say you are right. What are you trading him for? A team that is competing will NOT trade a 25-26 year old 60 point defenseman for just futures or prospects. That's ludicrous. So you will trade him for an asset that in the end, you will need to pay just as much for. 60 points of production from the back end are not being moved for pure draft picks and prospects.

 

[True Blue]

Also, simple resource allocation.

If the team decides it doesn't want any of the three RD playing on his off side (an eminently reasonable position), it's poor asset allocation to have three A+ guys who can only total 60-65 minutes (counting PP time), while simultaneously playing three C+ guys another 55-60 minutes on the left.

Much better to play 2 of the three a total of ~50 minutes (especially with Lundkvist looking ready to step in and take the remaining time) and devote the third to acquiring a guy who can go play ~25 on the left, who can upgrade that overall contingent to something in the B to B+ range (and hopefully improve from there as the kids come up).

Minutes always work themselves out.

And Lundqvist is NOT ready to step in. No one knows when he will be. What we do know is that the chances of any prospect or even Fox or replicating DeAngelo's production is slim.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

And I am not moving a young 60 point defenseman just because there is a prospect skating in Sweden.

But let' say you are right. What are you trading him for? A team that is competing will NOT trade a 25-26 year old 60 point defenseman for just futures or prospects. That's ludicrous. So you will trade him for an asset that in the end, you will need to pay just as much for. 60 points of production from the back end are not being moved for pure draft picks and prospects.

It's not about moving Tony because Lundkvist is playing well right now though. Ultimately I believe that should Tony be moved, it will be a mixture of reasons that lead to it happening.

And no one is saying you trade Tony for draft picks or prospects. You'd have to move him for an equivalent piece elsewhere.

I know some people think it's a slam dunk that Tony will be on this team long term, but I'm not as convinced. Would I like him to be, yeah of course he's a great player. But I'm also aware that there other factors that come into play here that could just as easily see him moved in the next two seasons

 

[True Blue]

It's not about moving Tony because Lundkvist is playing well right now though. Ultimately I believe that should Tony be moved, it will be a mixture of reasons that lead to it happening.

So you are going to move a young defenseman that put up offensive numbers not seen around these parts for 25 years? Just checking.

And no one is saying you trade Tony for draft picks or prospects. You'd have to move him for an equivalent piece elsewhere.

So tell me what you are moving him for. Presuming it needs to be RW if it is a forward. Unless you believe that at the same time that you are moving him that a) Strome is gone & b) Chytil has not taken his play to the 2C level.

What does the return profile look like?

I know some people think it's a slam dunk that Tony will be on this team long term, but I'm not as convinced. Would I like him to be, yeah of course he's a great player. But I'm also aware that there other factors that come into play here that could just as easily see him moved in the next two seasons

I get it, but I cannot see them moving a player that they have put so much time and effort into and is now paying huge dividends.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Minutes always work themselves out.

And Lundqvist is NOT ready to step in. No one knows when he will be. What we do know is that the chances of any prospect or even Fox or replicating DeAngelo's production is slim.

It's not about moving Tony because Lundkvist is playing well right now though. Ultimately I believe that should Tony be moved, it will be a mixture of reasons that lead to it happening.

And no one is saying you trade Tony for draft picks or prospects. You'd have to move him for an equivalent piece elsewhere.

I know some people think it's a slam dunk that Tony will be on this team long term, but I'm not as convinced. Would I like him to be, yeah of course he's a great player. But I'm also aware that there other factors that come into play here that could just as easily see him moved in the next two seasons

Also to add to this, yes, you’re paying that guy you trade for that money, but you’re now not paying 2 people that money

 

[True Blue]

Also to add to this, yes, you’re paying that guy you trade for that money, but you’re now not paying 2 people that money

I agree, but they were not going to pay two people that money. Gorton and JD will only pay one. And I believe that, for the many reasons that I stated, there is simply no way that DeAngelo is being moved.

But again, let's play the game. YOU are Gorton. Every single NHL team has come to you and asked for DeAngelo. What does the return profile look like? Who are you realistically bringing back?

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

I agree, but they were not going to pay two people that money. Gorton and JD will only pay one. And I believe that, for the many reasons that I stated, there is simply no way that DeAngelo is being moved.

But again, let's play the game. YOU are Gorton. Every single NHL team has come to you and asked for DeAngelo. What does the return profile look like? Who are you realistically bringing back?

Well if they’re trading picks and prospects for a guy to fill in somewhere then they all of a sudden are paying two people that money. And I’d be looking for a good LHD in their early/mid 20’s that can hold down a pair if needed as a return for DeAngelo

 

[True Blue]

Well if they’re trading picks and prospects for a guy to fill in somewhere then they all of a sudden are paying two people that money. And I’d be looking for a good LHD in their early/mid 20’s that can hold down a pair if needed as a return for DeAngelo

Again, tell me exactly who are you targeting. Who are you pounding the table for that if you are Gorton, you MUST get in return otherwise there is no deal?

Yes, you are trading picks and prospects to bring in a guy that you have to pay, but one presumes that at those time you will need to make a decision on what you have on your roster and who stays and who goes. That is what Gorton and JD are paid for.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

So you are going to move a young defenseman that put up offensive numbers not seen around these parts for 25 years? Just checking.

So tell me what you are moving him for. Presuming it needs to be RW if it is a forward. Unless you believe that at the same time that you are moving him that a) Strome is gone & b) Chytil has not taken his play to the 2C level.

What does the return profile look like?

I get it, but I cannot see them moving a player that they have put so much time and effort into and is now paying huge dividends.

If the situation comes to that point, yeah I would. Again you seem to not understand that this isn't the ideal situation. The ideal situation is you have Trouba, Fox and DeAngelo on the right side for the next 5-7 years. It may not work out like that.

Tony wants to make his money. Let's say during the summer they can't come to an agreement on a long term deal (I'm talking a 5-8 year deal), so he gets a 2 year bridge.

Is it really that crazy to think that in that two year span when Fox is due for a new deal (who's going to get paid big time FYI), Tony is moved? And they have a prospect like Lundkvist ready to step in who's most likely on his ELC? There's a solid chance the right side of this defense could cost upwards of 20 million combined in two years if they keep everyone

It could just come down to dollars and cents. And Gorton will probably grit his teeth and have to move Tony for help elsewhere if that ends up being the case

 

[Ola]

Rule of thumb is that if you move a D to the wrong side he gets about 30-40% worse over night. And for every year a D plays on the wrong side he gets permanently 10% worse due to the wear and tear and loss of confidence.

I think in most cases, the loss of production and permanent damage is probably worse. Gostisbehere is a good example.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Again, tell me exactly who are you targeting. Who are you pounding the table for that if you are Gorton, you MUST get in return otherwise there is no deal?

Yes, you are trading picks and prospects to bring in a guy that you have to pay, but one presumes that at those time you will need to make a decision on what you have on your roster and who stays and who goes. That is what Gorton and JD are paid for.

I’m not going to go through every team in the league’s depth chart for you if you’re going to keep rejecting the idea of trading a roster player as an alternative option to ‘Lundkvist is the trade chip because this team already has 3 good RHD on the roster’

 

[True Blue]

If the situation comes to that point, yeah I would. Again you seem to not understand that this isn't the ideal situation. The ideal situation is you have Trouba, Fox and DeAngelo on the right side for the next 5-7 years. It may not work out like that.

I fully understand that. But I also fully understand that as seen as a strength, that is exactly where the money is invested in.

Tony wants to make his money. Let's say during the summer they can't come to an agreement on a long term deal (I'm talking a 5-8 year deal), so he gets a 2 year bridge.

Sure, but I am also see them resgning him long term in the middle of it, if they cannot come to an agreement today.

And as I have been saying, I think that people greatly underestimate cash. It is one thing to be full of piss and vinegar and keep betting on yourself to continue to have such years. It is then quite another when the somoene shows up with nearly $40m and offers it to you. Hard to resist if you are 24 years old.

Is it really that crazy to think that in that two year span when Fox is due for a new deal (who's going to get paid big time FYI), Tony is moved? And they have a prospect like Lundkvist ready to step in who's most likely on his ELC? There's a solid chance the right side of this defense could cost upwards of 20 million combined in two years if they keep everyone

Nothing is impossible. That said, we have no idea of what Fox is going to continue to do for two years and we also have no idea if Lundqvist can step into anything. He could just as easily be the next Karel Rachunek or Tim Erixon.

It could just come down to dollars and cents. And Gorton will probably grit his teeth and have to move Tony for help elsewhere

Am completely in the other camp. I believe that someone else gets moved. Buchnevich.....you name it.

But again, let's play this game with you . Two years down the line and you need to pay Fox and indeed Lundkvist is ready to step in. Who are you moving DeAngelo for? A GM of a team that is competing (as well as the Rangers should in two years) is not going to move 60 points of production from the back end and receive nothing but picks and prospects. You had better believe that it will be for similarly aged, similarly transected talent. So WHO is it? Give me a few names. And then tell me why you are not worried about having to pay them the same exact amount of money that you seem to be worried about having to pay DeAngelo while also needing to pay Fox that big time raise you are talking about.

 

[charliemurphy]

Why are people dismissing the fact that TDA has and does play LHD? He played LHD with Sarnia and Quinn has already shown that he likes to shuffle the pairings around with a lead. Especially when being up by 2 or more goals. If TDA is partnered with someone that isn't a defensive liability then he should eventually be moved to the left side for good. Who knows? Down the road a TDA-Lundkvist pairing might work. If it doesn't work then he should be definitely be moved for forward depth.
As far as a target for the left side I would be after if I'm Gorton, it would be Lehtonen from Jokerit. He has one season left on his contract. I would be very curious what it would take to get him, perhaps even get him out as soon as this season is over. Might be unpopular but I would also target Grigorenko as a FA if someone like Strome is moved at some point.

 

[True Blue]

I’m not going to go through every team in the league’s depth chart for you if you’re going to keep rejecting the idea of trading a roster player as an alternative option to ‘Lundkvist is the trade chip because this team already has 3 good RHD on the roster’

I reject that idea, but do so for the multiple reasons that I have listed. I am also said repeatedly that everyone is tradeable. So nothing is impossible and I am not Gorton nor do I play him on tv.

Having said that, who are you asking for in return?

For all of the pro-trading DeAngelo crowd, I find it very hard to understand why no one can simply answer who are they targeting? Why is this an issue?

 

[True Blue]

Why are people dismissing the fact that TDA has and does play LHD?

He played it a lot in juniors, not in recent years. Also it is incredibly difficult to switch sides. This is not EA sports.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

I reject that idea, but do so for the multiple reasons that I have listed. I am also said repeatedly that everyone is tradeable. So nothing is impossible and I am not Gorton nor do I play him on tv.

Having said that, who are you asking for in return?

For all of the pro-trading DeAngelo crowd, I find it very hard to understand why no one can simply answer who are they targeting? Why is this an issue?

I told you a pretty good description of what I’d target, why do I have to give you a specific name when it’ll literately mean nothing other than giving you the option to respond and go “DeAngelo for ____?! Absolutely not!” We’re not playing GM here, we’re talking about paths for the team to take to get better on a hockey forum

 

[charliemurphy]

He played it a lot in juniors, not in recent years. Also it is incredibly difficult to switch sides. This is not EA sports.

Huh? Its happened quite a lot this season. Don't take my word for it.
If the Rangers are up by a goal or two, Quinn usually starts shuffling lines.