Prospect Info: Rangers Prospect Thread (Player Stats/Info in Post #1; Updated 5.12.20)

[True Blue]

I told you a pretty good description of what I’d target, why do I have to give you a specific name when it’ll literately mean nothing other than giving you the option to respond and go “DeAngelo for ____?! Absolutely not!” We’re not playing GM here, we’re talking about paths for the team to take to get better on a hockey forum

Yes, you have to have an idea of the type. I am not trying to simply be argumentative here, but throwing out "trade him" without any kind of thought as to who you are bringing back and how said person will fit in both the team and the team's salary structure seems a bit short sighted.

I said my choice. If you forget about which side, if a team is coming to me and asking for DeAngelo, I am asking for Kyle Connor. Who are you asking for?

 

[True Blue]

Huh? Its happened quite a lot this season. Don't take my word for it.
If the Rangers are up by a goal or two, Quinn usually starts shuffling lines.

It happened in small sample sizes and in specific situations (power play, I believe). That is a whole lot different than playing 18-19 minutes there for the entire game.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

And as I have been saying, I think that people greatly underestimate cash. It is one thing to be full of piss and vinegar and keep betting on yourself to continue to have such years. It is then quite another when the somoene shows up with nearly $40m and offers it to you. Hard to resist if you are 24 years old.

Nothing is impossible. That said, we have no idea of what Fox is going to continue to do for two years and we also have no idea if Lundqvist can step into anything. He could just as easily be the next Karel Rachunek or Tim Erixon.

But again, let's play this game with you . Two years down the line and you need to pay Fox and indeed Lundkvist is ready to step in. Who are you moving DeAngelo for? A GM of a team that is competing (as well as the Rangers should in two years) is not going to move 60 points of production from the back end and receive nothing but picks and prospects. You had better believe that it will be for similarly aged, similarly transected talent. So WHO is it? Give me a few names. And then tell me why you are not worried about having to pay them the same exact amount of money that you seem to be worried about having to pay DeAngelo while also needing to pay Fox that big time raise you are talking about.

Maybe Gorton offers him 40 million in the summer and he signs long term, maybe Tony wants a 2 year bridge with the salary high in the second year so that he has a huge QO number in the summer of '22 and can walk right into UFA the following year.

I have no idea what he will do. I'm the same age as him, if someone offered me 40 million, I'd take it. But I'm not him

Lundkvist is just the name here because he's currently our best defensive prospect. You could replace his name with any cheaper, younger player and have the same discussion.

And I can't give you a name for who I'm trading Tony for if that situation arises, because I have no idea who will be available. The players we're talking about today may not be the same guys being discussed in 1-2 years. And the needs of the team in 1-2 years may be different than they are now.

 

[True Blue]

Maybe Gorton offers him 40 million in the summer and he signs long term, maybe Tony wants a 2 year bridge with the salary high in the second year so that he has a huge QO number in the summer of '22 and can walk right into UFA the following year.

I have no idea what he will do. I'm the same age as him, if someone offered me 40 million, I'd take it. But I'm not him

Lundkvist is just the name here because he's currently our best defensive prospect. You could replace his name with any cheaper, younger player and have the same discussion.

And I can't give you a name for who I'm trading Tony for if that situation arises, because I have no idea who will be available. The players we're talking about today may not be the same guys being discussed in 1-2 years. And the needs of the team in 1-2 years may be different than they are now.

I believe that DeAngelo gets a long term deal. Just a matter of if it is at the end of this year or next.

And I understant that things are fluid and those that are available today may not be tomorrow. But that does not change the fact that I am asking you who are you targeting? Pretend that this is a deal that is getting done this year, what is your demand?

 

[charliemurphy]

It happened in small sample sizes and in specific situations (power play, I believe). That is a whole lot different than playing 18-19 minutes there for the entire game.

Nah, its happened more often than you think. Take note next time they're up by a goal or two and you'll see how much shuffling Quinn does... This is when you say Quinn shouldn't be making those kinds of moves.
Look, I don't want to deal TDA but if Gorton gets an offer he can't refuse or can't make the payroll work and has to trade him then so be it. Trust that Gorton gets enough value back, Lundkvist comes in and turn the page.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

I believe that DeAngelo gets a long term deal. Just a matter of if it is at the end of this year or next.

And I understant that things are fluid and those that are available today may not be tomorrow. But that does not change the fact that I am asking you who are you targeting? Pretend that this is a deal that is getting done this year, what is your demand?

If you were forcing me to choose players making the assumption this happens in the summer, I'd be aiming for guys like Timo Meier, Werenski, Boeser, Kyle Connor, Provorov

That type of player

 

[True Blue]

Nah, its happened more often than you think. Take note next time they're up by a goal or two and you'll see how much shuffling Quinn does... This is when you say Quinn shouldn't be making those kinds of moves.
Look, I don't want to deal TDA but if Gorton gets an offer he can't refuse or can't make the payroll work and has to trade him then so be it. Trust that Gorton gets enough value back, Lundkvist comes in and turn the page.

If history has taught us nothing else, it is that everyone can be traded. And that there is always a price point at which a deal will get done.

That said, I do not believe that Gorton is looking to trade DeAngelo. And to get him, someone will have to pony up a big-time, young players. One that will make that fan base wince. Exactly the same way that this fan base would wince if you moved a 24 year old, 60 point defenseman.

But again, just me here, I doubt that DeAngelo is going anywhere.

 

[charliemurphy]

I believe that DeAngelo gets a long term deal. Just a matter of if it is at the end of this year or next.

And I understant that things are fluid and those that are available today may not be tomorrow. But that does not change the fact that I am asking you who are you targeting? Pretend that this is a deal that is getting done this year, what is your demand?

Is there specific team or is this for shits and giggles?
If its shits and giggles and its Philly then I'd go after Farrabee, York and their 2020 1st.

 

[True Blue]

If you were forcing me to choose players making the assumption this happens in the summer, I'd be aiming for guys like Timo Meier, Werenski, Boeser, Kyle Connor, Provorov

That type of player

Thank you. That is fair.

I will say that out of all of those players, only Connor really interests me. Unless you believe that Werenski will be a legit top pairing d-man for years to come.

 

[True Blue]

Is there specific team or is this for shits and giggles?
If its shits and giggles and its Philly then I'd go after Farrabee, York and their 2020 1st.

No specific team. Just want a return profile.

Will say that I believe that this is a type of trade that will not get done. Gorton is not moving 60 points of production from a defenseman for essentially picks and prospects.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Minutes always work themselves out.

And Lundqvist is NOT ready to step in. No one knows when he will be. What we do know is that the chances of any prospect or even Fox or replicating DeAngelo's production is slim.

Sorry, TB, this is hand-waving.

Either the team is willing to play one of them on his off side – in which case, we have no issue, and we can put a pin in this debate.

Or they are not – in which case, so long as they have Trouba, Fox, and DeAngelo, they are underutilizing some of their best assets (because outside of PP2 and when trailing late, only one of the three can be on the ice at any one time) while simultaneously continuing to expose their biggest weakness.

 

[TheDirtyH]

Rule of thumb is that if you move a D to the wrong side he gets about 30-40% worse over night. And for every year a D plays on the wrong side he gets permanently 10% worse due to the wear and tear and loss of confidence.

I think in most cases, the loss of production and permanent damage is probably worse. Gostisbehere is a good example.

Player by player is the only way to evaluate this imo.

Gallant Says Schmidt And Theodore Play Best On Right Side; Where's That Leave Coghlan And Whitecloud? - SinBin.vegas

(setting myself up for the Gallant was fired so what does he know, though Theodore still plays the right iirc)

 

[Ola]

I told you a pretty good description of what I’d target, why do I have to give you a specific name when it’ll literately mean nothing other than giving you the option to respond and go “DeAngelo for ____?! Absolutely not!” We’re not playing GM here, we’re talking about paths for the team to take to get better on a hockey forum

I think there is a big risk that we envision to get a lot more for TDA than we would end up getting.

TDA controls his own destiny 100% since he got a bridge deal. Great stats means that he will get paid a lot even on a short term deal in arbitration. 2+1 or 1+2. Say around 6m per. He can hence become a UFA at a young age and get a monster deal and pick whatever organization he wants to in the entire NHL.

How many trading for TDA can be confident that they can keep him for longer than 3 years? 2-3? 5?

I just think that it would be hard to get a good return for him.

 

[charliemurphy]

No specific team. Just want a return profile.

Will say that I believe that this is a type of trade that will not get done. Gorton is not moving 60 points of production from a defenseman for essentially picks and prospects.

Curious, what if TDA got you inside the top 5 in this draft? Again, for shits and giggles, a team like LA, Anaheim or any team in the top 5 call up Gorton looking to get him.

 

[mas0764]

Curious, what if TDA got you inside the top 5 in this draft? Again, for shits and giggles, a team like LA, Anaheim or any team in the top 5 call up Gorton looking to get him.

Tempting.

Let's also assume it's not Lafrieniere, but that any of the other spots might be available. Meaning Stutzle, Byfield, Holtz, any of those names.

 

[charliemurphy]

Tempting.

Let's also assume it's not Lafrieniere, but that any of the other spots might be available. Meaning Stutzle, Byfield, Holtz, any of those names.

Again more for shits and giggles... step further... lets say Anaheim lands 2nd OA who are loaded at C call Gorton wanting TDA for Byfield. Tempting, lol... you have to be high to pass on that. That kid looks like the real deal and ready to step in next season.

 

[mas0764]

Again more for shits and giggles... step further... lets say Anaheim lands 2nd OA who are loaded at C call Gorton wanting TDA for Byfield. Tempting, lol... you have to be high to pass on that. That kid looks like the real deal and ready to step in next season.

Next question: What if they want TDA and the 21st pick? Still considered?

The Rangers can walk out of the draft with Byfield and Lundell at, lets say, 10 (their own pick).

Remember you are rolling out Trouba and Fox as your top 2 on the right side for the next near decade regardless. And Lundkvist looks like a keeper.

 

[UnSandvich]

Next question: What if they want TDA and the 21st pick? Still considered?

The Rangers can walk out of the draft with Byfield and Lundell at, lets say, 10 (their own pick).

I can't speak for others, but I'd be sorely tempted by that offer

 

[mas0764]

I would hate, hate, hate moving DeAngelo.

But you also have to get creative, and the earlier you do so, the better. You can't get locked in to a roster that doesn't work, cause then everyone knows they have you over a barrel and they give you pennies on the dollar.

I've been sitting here getting into page-long arguments that we need probably 2 more top talents in our forward group, to supplement an absolutely loaded defensive corps.

If you could walk away in June with Byfield or Stutzle AND Lundell, then you CAN honestly say, rebuild over.

All for the price of one Tony DeAngelo, due a huge contract extension, in an offseason when you have limited money, a player who is somewhere in the mix (but not even for sure the top player) on a right side that is brimming with talent.

Tempting.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I wonder if there is any player Montreal would want for Romanov that would make sense for us?

 

[True Blue]

Or they are not – in which case, so long as they have Trouba, Fox, and DeAngelo, they are underutilizing some of their best assets (because outside of PP2 and when trailing late, only one of the three can be on the ice at any one time) while simultaneously continuing to expose their biggest weakness.

Going to be honest, I have no trouble with them playing largely the same minutes they are now, with the exception being that Trouba plays a bit less and the Fox - Lindgren duo playing a bit more. And paying them what it costs.

And no, I do not believe that anyone is being moved to their off side.

 

[True Blue]

Curious, what if TDA got you inside the top 5 in this draft? Again, for shits and giggles, a team like LA, Anaheim or any team in the top 5 call up Gorton looking to get him.

Unless you are offering the #1 overall pick, if it were me, I am not moving him. We can have a discussion about the 2OA, but picks 3, 4 or 5 are a non-starter. And the 2OA could be as well. A 60 point defenseman is a 70 or so point forward. You can only hope that the draft picks develop into such a player. And this is presuming that DeAngelo is done developing as a player. Which I believe he is not.

 

[True Blue]

Again more for shits and giggles... step further... lets say Anaheim lands 2nd OA who are loaded at C call Gorton wanting TDA for Byfield. Tempting, lol... you have to be high to pass on that. That kid looks like the real deal and ready to step in next season.

I do not have to be high to pass on that. What is Byfield? A promise. Nothing more. What is DeAngelo doing RIGHT NOW, in front of your eyes? That is not a promise. That is reality.

What's more, I think that Gorton pukes all over it. This team is looking to contend next year. You would have to be high to believe that Gorton will so greatly weaken next year's team for just a promise.

 

[True Blue]

All for the price of one Tony DeAngelo, due a huge contract extension, in an offseason when you have limited money, a player who is somewhere in the mix (but not even for sure the top player) on a right side that is brimming with talent.

Tempting.

And how do you address how badly you just weakened the team? Who is riding in on a white horse to replace the production that you just gave away with nothing back but future considerations?

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Going to be honest, I have no trouble with them playing largely the same minutes they are now, with the exception being that Trouba plays a bit less and the Fox - Lindgren duo playing a bit more. And paying them what it costs.

And no, I do not believe that anyone is being moved to their off side.

This is fair, I suppose – but I disagree.

I don't think a move is imminent necessarily, but I think the wisest course is to trade from your position of underutilized strength to upgrade a weakness, and then maximize utilization of your superior pieces across the board. (Or ice, as the case may be. )