Amazing Kreiderman
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- Apr 11, 2011
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Size isn't everything. I can't believe in 2019 we are still having debates about size first, skill second.
Prospect Info: Rangers Prospect Thread (Player Stats/Info in Post #1; Updated 11.15.19)
- Thread starter nyr2k2
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Size isn't everything. I can't believe in 2019 we are still having debates about size first, skill second.
eco's bones
Registered User
I certainly value Miller over Jones and size doesn't hurt. Jones though is playing for one of the best college hockey programs out there and after less than a handful of games is fitting in like a glove. I'm kind of thinking Adam Fox (like Jones a 3rd rounder) all over again. That would be a tremendous outcome. Fox should turn into a great d-man. The one thing I will say about size on the blueline--you do need some guys with size and strength and you do need guys who can play steadily in their own end of the ice. As well though guys who can make plays and move the puck quickly up the ice which is more where the Fox's, DeAngelo's and Jones's fit in. To me Miller's top upside would be someone like Seth Jones or Charlie McAvoy. A big guy who can really skate and has the skills to play both offensively and defensively. Seth Jones is like a complete package to me. He's got everything IMO--size, skating, skill, offensive and defensive play, is strong and can play mean, plays all situations. These are rarities in today's game though and it's kind of what Trouba is bringing to us this year. This is where Miller needs to get but he's still got issues to work out.
LaffyTaffy
Brooklyn-Belarussian
I think quite the opposite. The way the game is played now allows for smaller players to succeed. Just because a dman is big does not make him good at defense. Gone are the days of Marc Staals, if you cannot win a battle with stick on stick defense then you are screwed. Using the body is absolutely still part of the game, but there is a lot more stick on stick defense now. Zac Jones and Adam Fox and Nils Lundkvist will have every opportunity to fill into their bodies and be the offensive threats that they are in the NHL.
P.S. Anyone who has watched Nils play knows that he can absolutely use his body despite his frame, which I feel we will see with Jones as well. Fox is a genius with the puck, i literally do not see why we are even having a size conversation right now. We have a very good mix of options on D.
P.S. Anyone who has watched Nils play knows that he can absolutely use his body despite his frame, which I feel we will see with Jones as well. Fox is a genius with the puck, i literally do not see why we are even having a size conversation right now. We have a very good mix of options on D.
If you actually listened to JD you would have heard him flat out say the team needs to get tougher. You don't do that drafting euro's with your first round picks and small, offensive defenseman. Yes, you need skill. Yes, you need a mix. However, Gorton as much as I love him as our GM, has drafted way too soft with his prospects. Miller was a great pick by Gorton. Yes, Lundkvist looks like a nice talent that can help our defense. However, you aren't moving the 6'2+ powerfowards with talent in front of your net with smaller defenseman. You're delusional to think that will ever happen. There hasn't been nearly enough picks in Gorton's drafts where he took hard nosed, players with offensive upside. Who has been the best defenseman by far on our defense. Trouba. Size with skill. While I think Fox will be a good defenseman. He's not shutting down big, elite talent forwards. He needs a partner to do that.
At the deadline I feel strongly DeAngelo, another small defenseman will be dealt. I wouldn't rule out JD moving Kravtsov either and overruling Gorton on that one if the return is favorable.
At the deadline I feel strongly DeAngelo, another small defenseman will be dealt. I wouldn't rule out JD moving Kravtsov either and overruling Gorton on that one if the return is favorable.
LaffyTaffy
Brooklyn-Belarussian
What do you people categorize as tough idgi. Deangelo at 5'11 is one of the toughest guys on our team. Lemieux is tough. Haley is a straightup goon. McKegg can be tough if need be. Smith is tough and always finds a way to rack PIMs the good ol hockey way. How much more do you guys need. Marc Staal despite being a pilon is widely considered to be a tough defensive defenseman. Trouba lays the body all game. Can we please stop pretending that we lose games cause we're getting bullied. WE LOSE GAMES BECAUSE WE LACK SKILL. OUR #2 OVERALL HAS NO TALENTED CENTER. OUR BOTTOM 6 IS DEVOID OF TALENT SAVE FOR LIAS ANDERSSON. We sacrificed skill for toughness the moment we sent Fil and Kravtsov down, and now look where that has got us. So can we please stop bitching and moaning about having grit. This team needs some hands for f***s sake.
I know you're probably just trolling, but Kravtsov is 6'4"
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SnowFort
Registered User
- Mar 5, 2017
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This ”euro” feels offended by this message.
Miamipuck
Al Swearengen
I am sorry but can we stop arguing with a guy that probably has 10 user names and is just trolling.
This soft Euro shit, drafting tough drafting bigger belongs in the 1970 Rangers draft forum.
If the Rangers keep drafting players like Jones, Nils, etc it's only a matter of time before the skill on the team will be quite a bit better.
This soft Euro shit, drafting tough drafting bigger belongs in the 1970 Rangers draft forum.
If the Rangers keep drafting players like Jones, Nils, etc it's only a matter of time before the skill on the team will be quite a bit better.
I didn't even realize that's who that was, good call. Another alt to the ignore list.
UAGoalieGuy
Registered User
I need to go find my post from when Wall was drafted. Kid is going to be good, barring injuries.
His fundamentals and anticipation of plays is very good.
Excited to have so many quality goalies in the pipeline.
His fundamentals and anticipation of plays is very good.
Excited to have so many quality goalies in the pipeline.
kovazub94
Enigmatic
- Aug 5, 2010
- 13,081
- 8,800
Lol at the guy bemoaning drafting “soft Euros” with Kakko in his handle.
UAGoalieGuy
Registered User
lucky13
Iron Chic
People are always overrate how the game has changed. The game has changed very little. The only major difference is they took away the clutch and grab which made it eaiser for smaller forwards to score and made it necessary for bigger defenseman to have to skate better than years ago because the speed picked up. Other than that the game is the same in many areas as it was 50+ years ago. Bigger forwards need bigger defenseman to move them in front of the net. Bigger defenseman have a longer reach to break up plays better with pokechecks. Bigger defenseman usually win puck battles in the corners vs. bigger forwards. Bigger defenseman are usually more physical and can play a more physical game. Bigger defenseman tend to remain stronger during a long season as they are able to take more hits.
There are always players that are an exception to the rule. Some smaller defenseman who defy the odds. It doesn't happen often. When Staal and Girardi were younger they were horses who played against all the top lines and shut them down more often than not. They were keys in those long playoff runs. If you look at the cup rosters of the last 4 to 6 cup winners, you don't see 3 or 4 defenseman under 6 feet on those rosters.
Right now you have Fox and DeAngelo who are smaller defenseman. Lundkvist is similar. You probably can get away with that if yo have a 6'4 Miller out there along with a Skjei or Robertson. If you going to put out 3 or 4, 5'11 defenseman, you're not going to have playoff success. That's just my opinion. Size is still an enormous factor come playoff time.
There are always players that are an exception to the rule. Some smaller defenseman who defy the odds. It doesn't happen often. When Staal and Girardi were younger they were horses who played against all the top lines and shut them down more often than not. They were keys in those long playoff runs. If you look at the cup rosters of the last 4 to 6 cup winners, you don't see 3 or 4 defenseman under 6 feet on those rosters.
Right now you have Fox and DeAngelo who are smaller defenseman. Lundkvist is similar. You probably can get away with that if yo have a 6'4 Miller out there along with a Skjei or Robertson. If you going to put out 3 or 4, 5'11 defenseman, you're not going to have playoff success. That's just my opinion. Size is still an enormous factor come playoff time.
Listing one player means nothing. Like I said, there are always a few exceptions. Last time I looked, the Bruins won nothing last year. Krug was also the only Bruins starters last year in the regular season who was a minus. He was a +4 in the post season but old fart Chara who is huge was a +11 and 6'5 Carlo was a plus 10.
Exactly. Especially since guys like Fox, Zack Jones and Lundkvist can be paired with bigger guys like Trouba, Robertson and Miller.
If we ended up having Kakko, Zac Jones and Matther Robertson pan out that was quite a haul.
eco's bones
Registered User
There are certain things that smaller defensemen have issues with though and the teams that play heavier (Boston, Washington, Vegas for instance) are among the best teams. You have to control the area around your own net and the area down below the net. The likes of Pionk, DeAngelo and Shattenkirk (all on our right side the last couple years) were not strong enough to own these areas particularly in penalty kill situations. If you cannot push Tom Wilson away from the front of the net when you have Carlson's bombs coming in from the right side point and/or Ovechkin's from the left side circle you're not likely to beat the Caps.
The best teams have an assortment of players--some of whom are better at certain things than others. There is a lot more specialization than a lot of people give credit to and in specialization roles are assigned. You don't really need 6 defensemen who can play on your powerplay--you do need at least 4 who can penalty kill reasonably well--you don't really need 4 first line centers--you do need at least one or two you feel comfortable putting on the ice to protect a lead late in a game. You need guys who can score on the power play and you need guys who can check top line players and kill penalties. They might not be equally important but they're all important. The Rangers will not be able to handle the Caps, Bruins, Vegas or St. Louis if they can't push back against them physically.
The Rangers main need right now is a second line that can score--the problem is a center problem. DeAngelo needs to play better D because he and Fox are too much alike in game and physical ability. Tony had a short preseason though and hopefully he picks it up but right now teams are trying to get their best players away from Trouba.
eco's bones
Registered User
DeAngelo is a very good fighter for his size. He is not really a physical player though--he's a skill player. He doesn't hit a lot and he's often mismatched against bigger, stronger players. I wouldn't make too much out of the knockout of Okposo--Tony fights well because he's calm and he watches his opponent and he knows how to throw a punch. Okposo much bigger--started to lunge at him--stopped and then lunged again--Tony stepped to the side as Okposo went by and hit him in the jaw. He knows how to fight--Okposo doesn't.
Matz03
Registered User
From what I’m seeing out of Fox so far, he’s absolutely disproving the size argument quickly. His smarts are off the charts, not just moving the puck but getting in the way, positionally. With experience he’ll be a solid top 4 dman. His talent is exactly what the “big though” fanatics are blind too and how effective defensively they actually are.
it seems that he is too good for the J20 and barely being challenged...can Frolunda loan him to another team until they need him?
Amazing Kreiderman
Registered User
- Apr 11, 2011
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if zac jones becomes a nhl dman for us I'm thrilled, period...it drives me nuts how this board constantly tries to knock and put down our own prospects as a way to prove that their guy is better. root for all our prospects
I love this Henriksson kid. Tremendous draft pick. Looked great in traverse and ever since he’s been lights out.
What a start he’s had. Looking forward to seeing him live next month
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