There is always room for grit, but it is not necessarily tied into bigger players.
Prospect Info: Rangers Prospect Thread (Player Stats/Info in Post #1; Updated 1.27.20)
- Thread starter nyr2k2
- Start date
- Status
Amazing Kreiderman
Registered User
- Apr 11, 2011
- 45,075
- 40,935
There's room for grit, but it shouldn't be the only thing a player brings. That's where the Rangers have gone wrong in the last decade with guys like Glass, McLeod, McIlrath, Powe etc
Joey Bones
***** 2k16
cozandeffect
Ask Me About Barron
eco's bones
Registered User
CommaSynapse
Registered User
- Nov 2, 2013
- 5,177
- 2,832
He was. He'd hit and he had the reputation of a good work ethic. Hard-nosed player. I thought he'd augment someone like Fast and be a good bottom-6 addition, harder to play against.
Unfortunately, didn't really work out here, eh? That concussion right after arriving didn't help.
eco's bones
Registered User
Lots of guys hit though. He didn't hit nearly as hard as McIlrath or Glass though......and he wasn't a fighter which makes him odd company with the likes of Dylan, Tanner and Cody McLeod. Really AK is one of the best posters on this site but including Powe with those other three was kind of mystifying to me. It's not that I didn't get his point but someone like Dorsett would have been better.
Amazing Kreiderman
Registered User
- Apr 11, 2011
- 45,075
- 40,935
Dorsett added some skill to the position. I consider Dorsett a level above Glass/Powe/Newbury/McLeod.
eco's bones
Registered User
Dorsett was more skilled than those others for sure. Derek was not a drafted player and like McLeod and Glass he had to fight for everything he got. He's an example of a guy able to overreach his skillset. Legitimately he was a for real NHL 4th liner. It also came at a huge cost for him--because when you're 5'10 and you're literally fighting your way into the league like he did--he fought some of the biggest toughest guys and he was out of his weight class all the time and got clobbered a lot but it didn't stop him. That's a really really hard way and you have to give him respect for that but in the end it's why he's retired--his body couldn't take it anymore. Forced into retirement because doctors told him that he risked paralysis if he continued to play.
Newbury was the classic--very good AHL player that was a marginal NHL player at best. Haley's kind of a cross between Dorsett and Newbury. Less skilled than Dorsett but relatively the same size though stockier. He's not only up for all challenges but willing to challenge anyone anytime outside his weight class or not. Guys like Dorsett, Glass, Haley might not be very good players but they are all good guys and appreciated by their teammates for handling what amounts to a shitty job. There's the question or not of whether it's necessary but Andersson got mugged by Backes last year--Boston was giving Chytil grief too. Backes wanted no part of and backed away from Haley this year.
Newbury had a good bit of skill, if you ever saw him the the AHL he could do some impressive stuff. It never translated to the NHL in large part because when he'd get called up, he knew it was mainly to play that sandpaper game and that's what he focused on.
Dorsett, Prust, even Rinaldo and Carcillo to a degree, were tough, nasty guys who could also play some hockey. Rinaldo and Carcillo less so, but watching them over the years, you can see that they could play. Powe would sort of fall into this category, but he was more just a tough player; fighting wasn't really his thing as much as the other guys.
Ryane Clowe was very tough with more skill than any of these guys. The injuries ruined him.
Glass, McLeod, Asham, those guys were pure goons. Brought nothing else to the table. Asham should have but was done. Rupp was like Asham. Once was useful but was done when we signed him. Maybe McLeod, too. Bickel, beyond his one magical season, was a goon.
McIlrath is a different category entirely as while he was supposed to provide grit, and be a feared physical force, he was also supposed to be an imposing defender who could really shut down the other team. He'd be more like Dorsett and Prust, except he was supposed to be much better overall.
We have tried to bring in tough guys that can play, we just do a poor job targeting the right ones or choosing who to keep.
Dorsett, Prust, even Rinaldo and Carcillo to a degree, were tough, nasty guys who could also play some hockey. Rinaldo and Carcillo less so, but watching them over the years, you can see that they could play. Powe would sort of fall into this category, but he was more just a tough player; fighting wasn't really his thing as much as the other guys.
Ryane Clowe was very tough with more skill than any of these guys. The injuries ruined him.
Glass, McLeod, Asham, those guys were pure goons. Brought nothing else to the table. Asham should have but was done. Rupp was like Asham. Once was useful but was done when we signed him. Maybe McLeod, too. Bickel, beyond his one magical season, was a goon.
McIlrath is a different category entirely as while he was supposed to provide grit, and be a feared physical force, he was also supposed to be an imposing defender who could really shut down the other team. He'd be more like Dorsett and Prust, except he was supposed to be much better overall.
We have tried to bring in tough guys that can play, we just do a poor job targeting the right ones or choosing who to keep.
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
Of the names mentioned, Prust was by far my favorite. But you also saw what can happen with a guy like Prust:
1. Other teams notice what he brings, and that creates an aggressive market that drives up the price.
2. Injuries can completely change a player's trajectory and ROI when it comes to contracts. For guys like Prust, who rely on physical play to keep them effective and in the NHL, an injury can be particularly devastating.
The truth is, to get a guy who gives you a good combination requires timing, patience, and a little bit of luck. It also tends to require that you have said player in their mid-20s, before they sign that big contract.
That's essentially what the Rangers appear to have in Lemieux. A guy who is coming of age, at the right time, with the right combination, on a reasonable contract. That's also why the Rangers received immediate phone calls when they acquired him.
1. Other teams notice what he brings, and that creates an aggressive market that drives up the price.
2. Injuries can completely change a player's trajectory and ROI when it comes to contracts. For guys like Prust, who rely on physical play to keep them effective and in the NHL, an injury can be particularly devastating.
The truth is, to get a guy who gives you a good combination requires timing, patience, and a little bit of luck. It also tends to require that you have said player in their mid-20s, before they sign that big contract.
That's essentially what the Rangers appear to have in Lemieux. A guy who is coming of age, at the right time, with the right combination, on a reasonable contract. That's also why the Rangers received immediate phone calls when they acquired him.
- Aug 5, 2010
- 13,881
- 9,514
Really liked Lemieux - Chytil - Buchnevich line. Even by this season’s end it could’ve been a great 3rd line for a contender but all of them so young I have little doubt they are getting closer to be a good 2nd line on a contender.
Interestingly, even now chemistry between certain players can bring depth to this Rangers group already. Panarin - Strome - Fast, Kreider - Zibanejad - Kakko (or switch RWs) could share top9 minutes based on match ups and and who’s going on a particular night.
Interestingly, even now chemistry between certain players can bring depth to this Rangers group already. Panarin - Strome - Fast, Kreider - Zibanejad - Kakko (or switch RWs) could share top9 minutes based on match ups and and who’s going on a particular night.
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
I think we've been fairly good. The struggle has been the transition eras. We have a guy (or guys) who work well in their role, and then they leave, and we have someone who sucks, and then the next guy who does the job well emerges.
The latest gap, for me, was from 2014-2018. That was a bit longer than I would've liked and probably why it feels like our track record is a bit underwhelming.
LaffyTaffy
Brooklyn-Belarussian
Pronman just published an article about the upcoming WJC Camps. Can someone with an Athletic account let us know of any interesting tidbits lol.
- Sep 17, 2007
- 24,961
- 22,932
- Sep 1, 2010
- 10,042
- 8,021
Pronman: Key questions going into World Junior camps
"Nils Lundkvist (New York Rangers) has had an awesome season and is also a returning member. I think he’s a lock."
"Olof Lindbom (New York Rangers) would be in the running, but he’s been injured since October. It’s possible he returns prior to the tournament, but I would predict Alnefelt is starting the first game."
LaffyTaffy
Brooklyn-Belarussian
n8
WAAAAAAA!!!
I tend to believe they want to find a player like Brandon Prust but are misguided in their search efforts.
LeetchisGod
This is a bad hockey team.
Another benefit of the Fox trade is that we have two less second round picks to waste on goalies.
Agreed, but the problem we always had with these guys is that we got them too late. You want the Prust we had, not the one MTL got. And it’s the same with these guys. They are the most effective when they fight to establish themselves in the league. It’s at that point they really can make a difference. They become an integrated part of the culture. Simmonds in Philly. Nolan and co in LA.
ElLeetch
Registered User
- Mar 28, 2018
- 3,273
- 4,016
There are some picks you are unsure about (Kravtsov, Lias, etc) but there are some that you know were just bad when they were made. Lindbom was one. Falardeau was another.
- Sep 1, 2010
- 10,042
- 8,021
Jim Malone, Michael Stewart, the 2 guys from U.Alberta after Leetch, Darin Olver (well he is playing 12th straight season in Germany...)
Lindbom was not a bad prospect, he was just picked a round too soon, at best.
Now, injuries are going to turn him into Stajcer.
Now, injuries are going to turn him into Stajcer.
- Status
Ad
Upcoming events
-
-
Props Alex Ovechkin to Record 895th Career Goal During 2024/25 Regular SeasonWagers: 11Staked: $20,983.00Event closes - 6 days from now- Updated: