Proposal: Rangers - Ducks

[Talec]

That makes enough sense, but I sure wouldn't be looking to send off a 24 year old, #2 on any NHL team out there. That's a guy I want to be building around. That's just me though.

I don't disagree and we were heading that way. Lindholm, Theodore, Vatanen, Depres and Montour just made him expendable.

 

[HanSolo]

Take out Hayes.
Swap Fowler with Manson.

Done deal.

Oh you said swap. Never mind.

 

[HanSolo]

I don't disagree and we were heading that way. Lindholm, Theodore, Vatanen, Depres and Montour just made him expendable.

No. Vatanen, Stoner, and Bieksa's contracts is making it difficult to keep him without sacrificing Silfverberg to Las Vegas.

 

[Talec]

No. Vatanen, Stoner, and Bieksa's contracts is making it difficult to keep him without sacrificing Silfverberg to Las Vegas.

Agreed though I think Stoner will be trade for prospects and/or picks. Also I think the bigger reason we trade Fowler instead of say Depres is because of we have many top tier defensive prospects starting to knock on our door and Fowler will have a higher return.

 

[vipernsx]

You mean a top pairing defenseman?

Fowler isn't a 3-4. Solid two-way #2 defenseman.

Nope he's a second pairing offensive D. A straight up #3 guy.

I don't disagree and we were heading that way. Lindholm, Theodore, Vatanen, Depres and Montour just made him expendable.

Ducks have some pretty insane prospects up on the blueline...and well everywhere else.

 

[TGWL]

If Detroit is willing to do Tatar+Sheahan for Cam Fowler, This deal would be better then the Rangers offer. And i thought Ranger fans said that Cam Fowler isn't really a fit there. Should be looking at bringing hometown boy Kevin Shattenkirk home instead.

I'm not sure that deal is really that much better, if better at all.

 

[Sojourn]

Nope he's a second pairing offensive D. A straight up #3 guy.

This pretty much proves that you haven't seen him enough to make an accurate judgement. The offensive D label is years out of date.

It's hard to take an analysis like this seriously, if you can't even accurately describe him. This is a common theme from Eastern Conference fans. You just don't see him enough. That's fine. But then you try to argue with Anaheim fans that he's something other than what they are saying. Do you see the problem? You're speaking from ignorance, and your own preconceptions.

 

[bernmeister]

To Anaheim: Miller, Hayes

To New York: Fowler

Is something around that a reasonable price for Cam Fowler?

Ducks get 2 cheap good young players for someone who they might trade eventually?

OP is horrible. not giving 2 of young core, and not for Fowler

Rangers emphatically say no.

Wtf?

HELL NO.

Stop overrating a top 4 defenseman.

yeah

If there is any trade with the rangers, I want Kreider as one of the return pieces.

no on Kreider either
======================

NY is not giving people away.

fair deal, something around
Zuc for Vatanen almost straight up

or

Zuc for Theodore and small plus.

the potential on Theodore is not as much on him being that blue a blue chip but I would overpay taking into account Theodore is exempt from expansion draft.

As to cap, we can come up with an ELC or unsigned asset we can agree on, and you can kick in 4m ish of cap hit

 

[ohcomeonref]

ITT: a bunch of non-Ducks fans that never watch the Ducks (best defensive team in the NHL last year) tell the Ducks fans how bad their top minute-munching D is.

 

[crosscheck2]

Wtf?

HELL NO.

Stop overrating a top 4 defenseman.

Dylan McIlrath?

 

[KaseMeOutside]

ranger fans have convinced themselves fowler sucks based on 2 or 3 stats, fowler has been a top 2 dman on the ducks for 3 years, a team that has been consistently successful, how is that possible if he is so bad?

 

[tomd]

ranger fans have convinced themselves fowler sucks based on 2 or 3 stats, fowler has been a top 2 dman on the ducks for 3 years, a team that has been consistently successful, how is that possible if he is so bad?

So sad but true.

I remember the days when you judged a hockey player by watching what he did on the ice and how he impacted the game. Sadly, we have a new generation of hockey fans who would rather look at suspect statistics on a computer screen than watch the game itself.

 

[HanSolo]

ranger fans have convinced themselves fowler sucks based on 2 or 3 stats, fowler has been a top 2 dman on the ducks for 3 years, a team that has been consistently successful, how is that possible if he is so bad?

I just think it's funny that according to other fans Fowler sucks at defense, Lindholm is not a true #1, Sami is not a top pairing guy, Despres has little to no top 4 potential, Manson is a Lindholm passenger, Kesler isn't Selke caliber, Silfverberg is not exceptional at defense, and neither Gibson or Andersen are top starters...so was Boudreau just the most elite defensive coach ever or are Stoner and Cogliano defensive gods?

 

[HanSolo]

So sad but true.

I remember the days when you judged a hockey player by watching what he did on the ice and how he impacted the game. Sadly, we have a new generation of hockey fans who would rather look at suspect statistics on a computer screen than watch the game itself.

Bill Burr said it best "stats aren't stupid. It’s the way people apply them. You already have your mind made up and then you go to I'mright.com, and you start memorizing a bunch of s***, and just throw it up at people."

Yes the advanced stats show some holes in his game but it doesn't paint the whole picture. Then people have the audacity to tell the group of people who observe him the most that they don't know what they're talking about after they looked at some numbers thinking they're in Moneyball and that's enough to evaluate a player.

 

[gorangers0525]

His advance stats match up perfectly with his play. Good defensive play, followed by "oos and ahhhs" then he throws the puck to no one. Pretty big damn weakness.


Fowler and the Rangers don't fit. He wouldn't make the defense better, especially since he's a lefty....which is pretty sad because this d corpse (yes, corpse) sucks.

 

[Ducks in a row]

wtf no. Wouldnt even do Miller straight up for Fowler. Dont want him either. He is decent but has bad possesion numbers and i seriously dont think he is anything more than a decent top4.
We have Mcdonagh, staal and skjei on the left side, dont need him.
Fowler will also probably want alot more than he is worth in his next deal.... Absolutely no interest in him in NY.

You need to watch him more instead of looking at advanced stats so much. Advanced stats had said that Josi-Weber defense pair was a liability defensively with such crappy Possession and Shot Suppression. Guess that defense pair should of been sheltered instead of given so much ice time. Advanced stats are not the end all be all for judging defenseman you need to actually watch someone play more (like scouts do) to be able to better judge a player.

cmon, he is not a top 2 defensemen... I have watched them a good amount and Lindholm and Vatanen are both better and Vatanen is a solid #3. Lindholm a great #2 or decent #1. Fowler is not anything special at all. Decent top 4. He also has bad possesion numbers and no matter how much you ducks fan say it doesnt matter, it does matter.

Fowler gets less offensive zone starts then Vatanen while being tasked to shutdown other teams scorers with a crappy defense partner and gets more total mins. Fowler is the better overall defenseman. Stop advanced stat watching you need to actually watch him play more then you claim or at least become better at evaluating defenseman.

His advance stats match up perfectly with his play. Good defensive play, followed by "oos and ahhhs" then he throws the puck to no one. Pretty big damn weakness.


Fowler and the Rangers don't fit. He wouldn't make the defense better, especially since he's a lefty....which is pretty sad because this d corpse (yes, corpse) sucks.

His advanced stats don't match up with his play. He gets less offensive zone starts while being tasked to shutdown other teams scorers with crappy defense partner. If he had better defense partner instead of bottom pair quality defense partners things would look better with the advanced stats and he wouldn't get trash so much.

 

[Shootertooter]

Man, why is it that everyone thinks Fowler is not a #2 on almost every team.

Ill make a small list:

1. Ducks allowed the least GA/G this season.
2. Fowler led our Team in TOI/G
3. Fowler was relied on more heavily during the beginning-mid of the season until Lindholm started stepping up in a big way. BTW I know we weren't doing well at the beginning of the season but that had nothing to do with our defense.
4. Fowler did have the highest Defensive Zone to Offense Zone FO ratio on our team and in the early part of the season saw the more of the other teams first line then any other player.
5. He's only 24 with over 400 NHL games and almost 50 playoff games under his belt.
6. His partner for most of the season was Bieska who showed to be a defensive liability at times.


Don't get me wrong he is not a #1 defenseman but to think that he is anything but a great #2 is ridiculous.


Now to the Trade,

I doubt NYR trade Miller after just signing him and for a good price to boot. I'd say we'd most likely target Kreider if the Ranger can't agree to a long term deal with him. Besides that I think Det. is our most likely trade partner.

Miller isn't being moved and the Rangers don't want Fowler.

 

[Battle Hymns]

As a ducks hater I hope they make this deal

 

[Talec]

Miller isn't being moved and the Rangers don't want Fowler.

Did you read my whole post?

 

[KaseMeOutside]

His advance stats match up perfectly with his play. Good defensive play, followed by "oos and ahhhs" then he throws the puck to no one. Pretty big damn weakness.


Fowler and the Rangers don't fit. He wouldn't make the defense better, especially since he's a lefty....which is pretty sad because this d corpse (yes, corpse) sucks.

there are stats that show fowler is exceptional at things like breakouts so actually you just showed you have no idea what you're talking about

 

[aufheben]

ITT: a bunch of non-Ducks fans that never watch the Ducks (best defensive team in the NHL last year) tell the Ducks fans how bad their top minute-munching D is.

The worst thing anyone has said about him is he's a top-4 defenseman. Just because he's not a top-pairing defenseman doesn't mean he's bad.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Hard pass on the Rangers side. Fowler is so mediocre.

Nah. Top pairing defense cuz "I watch every game and I know"

 

[LeafFever]

NM. Wrong thread

 

[eco's bones]

ranger fans have convinced themselves fowler sucks based on 2 or 3 stats, fowler has been a top 2 dman on the ducks for 3 years, a team that has been consistently successful, how is that possible if he is so bad?

I guess you should just stop trying to trade him to us and find another team whose fans appreciate him more.

 

[silverfish]

ranger fans have convinced themselves fowler sucks based on 2 or 3 stats, fowler has been a top 2 dman on the ducks for 3 years, a team that has been consistently successful, how is that possible if he is so bad?

Rangers made the Cup Finals and ECF back-to-back seasons with Girardi as a top 2-dman.

Don't see the point.

I guess you should just stop trying to trade him to us and find another team whose fans appreciate him more.

Basically. Both fan bases need to just agree to stop posting Fowler to NYR threads.

We want Manson, not Fowler.