Jaromir Jagr
Registered User
Actually, it does. And again, we've been down this road, but elite players become available basically every year.
Confirmed with Link: Rangers buy out Shattenkirk
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Actually, it does. And again, we've been down this road, but elite players become available basically every year.
very disappointed
have been on board with Ranger braintrust so far and they deserve our continued support, but this
simply does not make sense.
Smith can be buried
Staal going gets rid of worse player [not his fault, brave to persevere thru concussions, eye injuries, etc., but still, bottom line]
makes a statement about NMCs
allows chance to see if Shatty can rebound from injury
keeps Shatty who can play either side, Staal is lefty only
would reduce excess at LD, = mo mins for emerging kids
objectively, does not make sense
also, the 6+ cap hit next yr
is created
while buying out or Staal retiring - if he obliges - next year loses that,
covers most of that cap hit
still...
not seeing the max benefit
worst of all, Shatty took less $ and term to be here, and this leaves a bad taste in the mouth of guys who may be thinking about coming here and giving us a break to do so.
does NOT earn the bernmeister seal of approval
Good luck Shatty, and thanks.
have been on board with Ranger braintrust so far and they deserve our continued support, but this
simply does not make sense.
Smith can be buried
Staal going gets rid of worse player [not his fault, brave to persevere thru concussions, eye injuries, etc., but still, bottom line]
makes a statement about NMCs
allows chance to see if Shatty can rebound from injury
keeps Shatty who can play either side, Staal is lefty only
would reduce excess at LD, = mo mins for emerging kids
objectively, does not make sense
also, the 6+ cap hit next yr
is created
while buying out or Staal retiring - if he obliges - next year loses that,
covers most of that cap hit
still...
not seeing the max benefit
worst of all, Shatty took less $ and term to be here, and this leaves a bad taste in the mouth of guys who may be thinking about coming here and giving us a break to do so.
does NOT earn the bernmeister seal of approval
Good luck Shatty, and thanks.
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
We have been down this road, and this statement has been shown over and over again to be false.
IceColdOx
Registered User
Gutted that it didn't work out. He's a lifelong Rangers fan from New Rochelle. I know it's a business, but dang. Best of luck Shatty.
Fitzy
Very Stable Genius
- Jan 29, 2009
- 36,387
- 24,204
I mean... I care more about the millions of real life NYR fans that want to see the team succeed.
Shatty was only here two years and is a multi millionaire. I also don't mean to be weird about it, but I think he has a pretty good home life too. I'm sure he'll be alright. He can take a role in the organization when he retires if he wants to help so badly.
It was distinctly worse, this isn't even refutable (look at my signature.)
I've seen some silly, silly takes on Staal over the past few weeks, everything from claiming that he's still an excellent PK'er, strong positionally and how this team being hemmed in their own end for long stretches of time because of Staal's inability to get and move pucks up ice can be beneficial for player development.
Simple fact, the Rangers gave up goals at a higher rate with Staal on the ice than any other regular defenseman. If the primary job of a defenseman is to not allow this to happen, he didn't do that and was the worst on the team (which already wasn't very good.) It would be one thing if he were a "take one to give one" type of player, but he's take 10 to give 0, no matter what kind of competition he is up against (4th line competition shredded him too.) He is not stability, he is a very, very, very bad defenseman who has level Tanner Glass effects on the ice, except he sees 2.5 x the minutes. Unless your goal is to be as bad a possible, he shouldn't be playing at all. He hurts your chances at winning and he hurts player development.
I don't understand why some people need to romanticize what the player is now. He's horrendous, one of the worst players in the league and clearly worse than the guy we just bought out. It doesn't mean that he has been a bad Ranger or that we shouldn't appreciate the effort hes given here, but please lets call a spade a spade.
I imagine opinions on here would be much different had Shattenkirk been the Ranger draft pick and Staal been the UFA signing.
Mac n Gs
Drury plz
- Jan 17, 2014
- 22,835
- 13,558
They could've bought out Namestnikov and Smith for higher savings this year and a lesser cap hit overall next year. The only downside to that is you'd still have to find a way to move Shattenkirk's contract next season, which I really don't think would pose any problems considering he was due $2M in actual salary after a $2M signing bonus on July 1. I also don't think the return on Namestnikov is going to be high enough to make it worth keeping him. This Shattenkirk buyout all but ensures we'll be sending Carolina our 2020 2nd this year, which I don't think is a wise move at this stage in the rebuild.
Namestnikov and Smith --> Namestnikov buyout comes off the books after 20-21
[TABLE="class: brtb_item_table"][TBODY][TR][TD]Season[/TD][TD]AAV[/TD][TD]Cap Penalty[/TD][TD]Net Savings[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]2019-20[/TD][TD]$8,350,000[/TD][TD]$2,304,166[/TD][TD]$6,045,834[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]2020-21[/TD][TD]$4,350,000[/TD][TD]$4,479,166[/TD][TD]-$129,166[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]2021-22[/TD][TD]$0[/TD][TD]$1,145,833[/TD][TD]-$1,145,833[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]2022-23[/TD][TD]$0[/TD][TD]$1,145,833[/TD][TD]-$1,145,833[/TD][/TR][/TBODY][/TABLE]
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
And yet, none of the takes you cite are sillier than harping about how they should buy out a player they were clearly never considering buying out.
Rongomania
Registered User
- Sep 17, 2007
- 24,947
- 22,884
While I had the same reservations about signing Panarin, I think there is a middle ground between rebuilding and "going for it" mode. The bottom line is that we added an elite player, which has been one of our goals. Ideally, he would have been 22 instead of 27, but it is what it is at this point. We added Kakko, who should hopefully become elite, and maybe Kravtsov becomes elite. We added Trouba, who is not elite, but was the missing piece of our future defense. Now it's a process of seeing how fast the team can come together, how fast the kids can develop, and where that takes us. I don't think we're going to be deadline buyers unless the player in question is also part of the long term vision. I don't think we're going to spend big money again next summer. I think management understands that the team is still at least a year or two away from truly contending.
Panarin was a gamble. On one side, you've got the chance that his play will decline and that his best years will be wasted. On the other, you've got the odds of another player of his caliber being available in the near future. Management chose to sign him, deal with the cap implications, and hope that by the time the rest of the team is ready, Panarin is still playing at an elite level and will help us win a cup or two.
I think this is going to be an exciting and fun team to watch this year. They may not win a ton of games, but it will be entertaining hockey. Hopefully it will also be a year of progress for the kids and a big step forward toward being a contender.
Oh but they are.
There were plenty of valid arguments about why he should have been bought out regardless of whether or not it was realistic (how seriously they considered it I don't know and neither do you.)
Flat out incorrect statements and flaming hot takes are silly and should be called out as such.
The writing was on the wall for this when you think about it. The second they signed Trouba and acquired Fox, that spelled the end for him. Trouba, DeAndelo and Fox. I did not think that Stall would be bought out and have all along maintained that Smith is starting the season as the 12th forward who will drop back to play on D in case of injuries, penalties, etc. It just looks like the musical chairs stopped and there was not one for Shattenkirk.
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
Noted. I'll do that most of the time you post about Staal, since most of those posts qualify.
Jaromir Jagr
Registered User
This isn't a question that's up for debate. It's a talking point that you and others latch onto to try and say that players of elite caliber are impossible to get. Willful ignorance does not mean you are proving that something is true or false.
Panarin himself has been available now twice in the past three years . Star or near star players that have moved in the past several years include: Tavares, Hall, EK, Stone, Kessel (x2) ROR (x2), Weber, Subban (x2), Duchene (x2), Radulov...etc
We alone, over the past decade, have acquired star players over and over. Nash, MSL, Yandle, Gaborik, Richards, Panarin, to a lesser extent - Trouba, Shattenkirk, etc.
Now, you can argue the degree to which these players are better or worse than Panarin, but in general, they all are at or near his level. Some above, some below.
To act like this is a once in a lifetime opportunity is flat out incorrect. Personally, I believe it would have been wiser for this team to have held onto that cap space and gone all in once their prospects are more fleshed out and they have a chance to realistically compete. Maybe I'll be proven wrong, but having watched this blueprint be tried and tested for the past 2 decades with little to show for it, I have the feeling that at the end of the Panarin contract, we'll be talking about 30+ years without a cup.
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
This end result was entirely predictable, barring being be able to trade their way out of the situation.
Irishguy42
Mr. Preachy
Just because the writing was on the wall doesn't make it less of a dumb move.
Agreed. The Trouba / Panarin strategy basically implied that (a) Kreider would be dealt either at the draft or mid summer, or, (b) Shattenkirk gets bought out. Sufficient Kreider deals didn't materialize.
Smith has versatility, Staal is veteran / plays other side / provides different style than rest of D, Namestnikov versatility important to fielding roster given uncertainty of youth next year and will have value at the deadline. I don't see how or why this is surprising or a strong case for an alternative approach (given Panarin/Trouba) other than people hoping he bounces back like a video game player...
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
Sorry, I thought we were discussing elite players available in UFA. As in players you don't have to give up other players or assets for. Including players that have been traded for is a false equivalence that you're spinning into a point YOU want to make.
Fitzy
Very Stable Genius
- Jan 29, 2009
- 36,387
- 24,204
bbny
Unregistered User
- Apr 12, 2019
- 2,217
- 3,616
It seems as much about the Trouba route as the Panarin route. I wonder if they knew for certain that Panarin was going to sign, if they would still have done the Trouba deal rather than keep the 1st round pick and stayed out of a cap bind.
- Jul 16, 2005
- 14,870
- 13,020
"Basically" every year is not every year.
And "basically" every year but not really every year, also does not guarantee that such a player wants to sign with us "basically" every year. Tavares had no interest in us. Stamkos didn't even make it to market before resigning and getting taken off the market. Maybe Hall doesn't either. And Hall is the only FA anywhere in the same stratosphere as Panarin next year; the year after, the only one of similar age and ability appears to be Landeskog.... good luck getting him out of Colorado. Maybe, but a bird in hand.
What do you want? Keeping Shattenkirk with no buy out and try to play him to drum up his trade value? I understand the line of thinking. But again, to me, I do not believe that Gorton traded for Fox and then signed him to his contract already to have him burn one year in Hartford.
offdacrossbar
misfit fanboy
well like that kinda did happen. its a money thing.
whether you love it or not, its pretty much true
its not like hes an 18 yr old kid.
hes ready for 3rd pair sheltered minutes and hell do as good or better than shatty would have done and for alot less $$
What is your alternative? Consider that they need to get under the cap and it does not sound like the price for a Kreider move is not much and Gorton is not going to trade him for pennies on the dollar. Again, remember that stating that "Buy out Stall instead" is just simply not a realistic scenario. So, from a realistic perspective, what is the alternative to get under the cap? Also cannot say "just trade x or y or z". You cannot force GMs to make a trade.
Jaromir Jagr
Registered User
I never said that and it's your own fault for insinuating.
By the way, we have many good prospects and it will be impossible for us to have them all reach and stay on the big club. So we will eventually have to either let guys walk, or leverage them in trades. Moreover, acting like signing an FA comes without any cost is just ridiculous.
I also don't understand why your responses to everyone you disagree with in here are hostile. You do know it's possible to respectfully disagree with someone, right?
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