Confirmed with Link: Rangers Acquire Rights to D Nick DeSimone and 4th-Round Pick (2022) for F Brett Howden

[Hi ImHFNYR]

As to Gorton, he made the trade to bring him in so had more invested in Howden's success than Drury does. Same deal with Hajek.

Quinn is a dope.

Ngl it was mostly rhetorical.

I still cant quite figure out if Gorton was good and it's bc of stuff like this. You expect more competence out of a GM whose whole thing is development of youth.

Yet everywhere you look with our youth there's disappointing performances, dysfunction, overplaying bad players, underplaying better ones, skipping over/graduating guys from the minors and being flat out wrong over and over (killing valuable ELC years in the process). Then there's even a sprinkle of trading away a guy or two who wind up being better than the guys we keep.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Only people who didn't follow college hockey would label Quinn as a "development coach".

So that would mean our entire front office which paid out the ass for him? Wtf why were they so clueless on so many things?

 

[eco's bones]

Only people who didn't follow college hockey would label Quinn as a "development coach". He was given the best recruits year after year. Not much developing there.

But now we got rid of Quinn and Howden. We can finally start to heal.

We were real thin on talent when he made the Rangers and Brett beat out Lias fair and square. He was apparently well liked by his teammates—not a sulker or a shirker. I absolutely believe he was and is upgradable but there’s really no good reason to run him down unnecessarily and anyway he’s no longer our player. I wish him good luck.

 

[Edge]

Edge, the post I quoted is from May 2018, NOT a few years later lol. A few months after we traded for him. This is the tough part with the archives at this place…

Actually, I think my comments — which you quoted — on him was pretty spot on, don’t you? And like even if they were a bit off, were they really deserving of all the personal attacks?
View attachment 453780

He doesn’t play a power forward game, never has and that wasn’t likely to be his meal ticket to he NHL. There’s really never been much to discuss there, just like when I look back at that thread there wasn’t much to discuss with McIlrath being an offensive defenseman.

It would be great if Howden was a power forward - it would probably help him tremendously. But I don’t see that in his frame, his mindset or a his toolbox. In theory he could completely re-invent his game, but it would require a completely tear down and rebuild, as well as a physical transformation.

Howden was a kid who maybe could’ve worked his way into a Sutter role, but it just didn’t happen. I’m not sure the alternative for him is a power forward.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

We were real thin on talent when he made the Rangers and Brett beat out Lias fair and square. He was apparently well liked by his teammates—not a sulker or a shirker. I absolutely believe he was and is upgradable but there’s really no good reason to run him down unnecessarily and anyway he’s no longer our player. I wish him good luck.

Howden needed time in the AHL but he never spent a day in Hartford. His development was ruined because of it.

 

[Ola]

He doesn’t play a power forward game, never has and that wasn’t likely to be his meal ticket to he NHL. There’s really never been much to discuss there, just like when I look back at that thread there wasn’t much to discuss with McIlrath being an offensive defenseman.

It would be great if Howden was a power forward - it would probably help him tremendously. But I don’t see that in his frame, his mindset or a his toolbox. In theory he could completely re-invent his game, but it would require a completely tear down and rebuild, as well as a physical transformation.

Howden was a kid who maybe could’ve worked his way into a Sutter role, but it just didn’t happen. I’m not sure the alternative for him is a power forward.

If you reserve the term PF for guys like prime Lucic, there is of course no debating this. Think that like one of the first thing I made clear in my responses in that thread was that I meant as a energy winger who did some of the dirty work for his linemates and threw his body around.

As to McIlrath, he was certainly not some pure stay at home D — in the WHL. That was of course the style he projected to have in the NHL, but he played almost exclusively as the No 3 D for his team in juniors. I think we had some hopes at least of him taking rapid steps after we drafted him. But that didn’t happen. Honestly, I have a hard time figuring out how this could even be a discussion we are having? Facts are facts, he had a 2nd pairing role, played 2nd pairing PP time and even some on the first, and he definitely had ambitions to assume bigger roles. If anything, lol, his defense was a bit all over the place while he was a junior.

Honestly, there were no debating these issues back then and there are definitely none today so I’ll leave it at this. Think those quotes speaks for themselves and the best argument I’ve seen made against them was that they were several years after the fact, which in fact was false since they were made three months after the McD trade.

 

[egelband]

Vegas is going to sign DeSimone right back and make us look STUPID.

Don’t even joke about that.
Now it’s in my head and I won’t be able to sleep until this gets resolved.

 

[kovazub94]

It’s when I am attacked for posting something like this I get frustrated. In short I didn’t buy Howden’s potential as a top 6 center and suggested that we molded him into a energy winger:
View attachment 453736

I mean, I still think this. There is where his potential lies, I didn’t see the potential at center.

Admittedly, the term PF can be ambiguous. But if anything, these are posts really questioning his potential as a top 6 center and that was what made these posts controversial. Here we got a top 6 center who had 60-80 pts potential and Ola comes along and claims that he only should be used as an energy winger…

All from my POV. It’s easy to misunderstand each other.

For someone who understands hockey as well as you do, clearly there’s a difference between a PF and and energy winger. You probably should have let this one slide instead of turning to the “ambiguous” defense, lol.

 

[kovazub94]

Only people who didn't follow college hockey would label Quinn as a "development coach". He was given the best recruits year after year. Not much developing there.

But now we got rid of Quinn and Howden. We can finally start to heal.

But the healing won’t begin for some until Lias A. is returned, amiright?

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

But the healing won’t begin for some until Lias A. is returned, amiright?

I don't care. He's gone. I have moved on.

I'm happy we hired a coach with a proven track record because the Quinn experiment clearly did not work.

 

[kovazub94]

I don't care. He's gone. I have moved on.

I'm happy we hired a coach with a proven track record because the Quinn experiment clearly did not work.

And yet the healing couldn’t start until both Quinn and Howden were gone...

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

And yet the healing couldn’t start until both Quinn and Howden were gone...

You really can't sense the sarcasm in my post there?

 

[kovazub94]

You really can't sense the sarcasm in my post there?

Sorry, sounded genuine.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Sorry, sounded genuine.

Nah. I have nothing against Howden. I wish him well. Hopefully he can reignite his career and improve.

And regarding Quinn: We all saw what this team was capable of when different people were behind the bench. That was, in my opinion, the nail in the coffin for Quinn so to speak. He just isn't a good coach for this level. And I'm happy we moved on.

 

[Inferno]

Nah. I have nothing against Howden. I wish him well. Hopefully he can reignite his career and improve.

And regarding Quinn: We all saw what this team was capable of when different people were behind the bench. That was, in my opinion, the nail in the coffin for Quinn so to speak. He just isn't a good coach for this level. And I'm happy we moved on.

The rangers were 4 and 2 in 6 games he was out (8 points). They were 3-2-1 in the 6 games after he came back (7 points). They were 2-3-1 in the game right before (5 points).

The difference wasn't Quinn as much as it wasn't playing the bruins and penguins....

The rangers handled the caps well all season...and the flyers were in total meltdown mode when. We played them (not just that game but the preceding games).

The covid games that Quinn missed as an argument against him so so disingenuous and completely lacks any subtlety or perspective.

You hate quinn. We all get it. There are legitimate arguments you and others have made against him. I just can't take take people seriously when they point to that 6 game stretch as if it meant anything in the large scheme of things.

 

[Ola]

For someone who understands hockey as well as you do, clearly there’s a difference between a PF and and energy winger. You probably should have let this one slide instead of turning to the “ambiguous” defense, lol.

Rugged winger, grinder, the guy doing the dirty work for others on a line used to be PF but the game has changed so much that there basically aren’t many true PFs left, like Josh Andersson, Crouse and co.

I also don’t quite buy the notion in Rangerland that someone that isn’t born naturally aggressive — so to speak — can’t be expected to contribute physically and get his hands dirty. Can a young D come in and say ‘sorry, blocking shots isn’t for me’?

Nobody put their health on the line as much as Ds do when they block shots. That is one thing I really hope changes under Gallant. It’s a free world and anyone can do what they want. But you aren’t entitled to play in the NHL for the NYR. If you aren’t one of the top 2-3 most talented forwards on the team, you should be willing to mix it up. Should the top 2-3 even get a pass? That can be debated. Since when can a stiff borderline 4th liner show up in the NHL and say sorry, playing physical isn’t for me??

If that is a clear requirement — I am fairly certain that most would up the ants. Some wouldn’t, but then we shouldn’t be a team for them.

 

[Kaapo Cabana]

The rangers were 4 and 2 in 6 games he was out (8 points). They were 3-2-1 in the 6 games after he came back (7 points). They were 2-3-1 in the game right before (5 points).

The difference wasn't Quinn as much as it wasn't playing the bruins and penguins....

The rangers handled the caps well all season...and the flyers were in total meltdown mode when. We played them (not just that game but the preceding games).

The covid games that Quinn missed as an argument against him so so disingenuous and completely lacks any subtlety or perspective.

You hate quinn. We all get it. There are legitimate arguments you and others have made against him. I just can't take take people seriously when they point to that 6 game stretch as if it meant anything in the large scheme of things.

I’m no Quinn apologist, but I agree that it’s silly to hold that stretch against him.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

The rangers were 4 and 2 in 6 games he was out (8 points). They were 3-2-1 in the 6 games after he came back (7 points). They were 2-3-1 in the game right before (5 points).

The difference wasn't Quinn as much as it wasn't playing the bruins and penguins....

The rangers handled the caps well all season...and the flyers were in total meltdown mode when. We played them (not just that game but the preceding games).

The covid games that Quinn missed as an argument against him so so disingenuous and completely lacks any subtlety or perspective.

You hate quinn. We all get it. There are legitimate arguments you and others have made against him. I just can't take take people seriously when they point to that 6 game stretch as if it meant anything in the large scheme of things.

When Quinn came back after that stretch, he actually was handling things better though. We didn't see the endless line shuffling that we saw prior to his COVID absence. I have said many times, that if Quinn can learn from this and improve, he can be successful. But the damage was done at that point.

I have nothing against Quinn personally. I've spoken to him a few times. He's a nice guy. He just makes decisions behind the bench that make no f***ing sense, and it caused problems. When I talk about the 6-game stretch, I don't care about results. I care about how we played and how players were used. It was night and day.

 

[Inferno]

When Quinn came back after that stretch, he actually was handling things better though. We didn't see the endless line shuffling that we saw prior to his COVID absence. I have said many times, that if Quinn can learn from this and improve, he can be successful. But the damage was done at that point.

I have nothing against Quinn personally. I've spoken to him a few times. He's a nice guy. He just makes decisions behind the bench that make no f***ing sense, and it caused problems. When I talk about the 6-game stretch, I don't care about results. I care about how we played and how players were used. It was night and day.

But how did we play vs how did our opposition play?

Philly was completely imploding then. Those 2 games against them meant nothing. You could gleam. Nothing from those games.

How on earth can you, a rational rangers fan, out any stock in a 4 game sample.

It's just like calling the rangers a soft team when Lindgren kreider and trouba are out of the lineup.

Or saying the rangers lack skill when panarin is out of the lineup.

The line hanging argument is nonsense to me. Iirc correctly, and I'm sure either @SA16 or @Irishguy42 could correct me, but Quinn has always shuffled lines *less* than most coaches, not more. If anything he keeps lines together too long

 

[Inferno]

My biggest issue with quinn, as a Quinn fan, is the teams complete inability to show up for big games. That was an issue his entire tenure. When people point to that, I have no way to answer it because it's totally true

 

[Doctyl]

My biggest issue with quinn, as a Quinn fan, is the teams complete inability to show up for big games. That was an issue his entire tenure. When people point to that, I have no way to answer it because it's totally true

My biggest issue with Quinn was his usage of top draft picks and decisions like this one



you get the opportunity to change lines in the offensive zone after a minute and a half of pressure and you choose the Howden-Rooney line to go out there? Absolutely no sense of awareness of the game

 

[kovazub94]

My biggest issue with quinn, as a Quinn fan, is the teams complete inability to show up for big games. That was an issue his entire tenure. When people point to that, I have no way to answer it because it's totally true

hole(s) the Rangers got themselves into early in 20-21 season, as well as through December 2019 in 19-20 season, to me meant that they were forced to play in a lot of big games, just each follow game was bigger than the one before.

 

[eco's bones]

Howden needed time in the AHL but he never spent a day in Hartford. His development was ruined because of it.

That’s kind of a water is wet argument though. At the time he made the team all of Howden, Andersson, Chytil and Nieves were in need of AHL time. The Rangers roster had been depleted of actual NHL players. The team was just beginning to restock on picks and prospects. One of those four above were going to be thrown in at the deep end and it turned out to be Howden…..and his first year wasn’t that bad all things considering.

If he had stayed with Tampa there’s little doubt he would have been in Syracuse for a couple years and perhaps be a much different player today. Because of the strength of aTampa’s lineup they’ve had the luxury of developing their players the right way and it shows when someone comes up from the Crunch they usually fit in seamlessly though Tampa has in recent years moved a lot of these guys too.

When Quinn took over for AV our organization was in a lot of disarray and it showed very much in Quinn’s first season. Things stabilized somewhat in his second season and the Rangers were actually able to make a playoff run before co I’d shut the season down. Whatever anyone thinks of the coaching staff that was good progress and then in this shortened season the Rangers were making another run 8-2-1 before they ran into the Islanders and Trouba got concussed at which point the wheels fell off the proverbial bus. Hockey is often a very cruel game. The higher the hopes usually the harder the crash.

Most people here need players or coaches to hate on and there’s too much of this dog whistle shit here. Players age and decline—younger kids sometimes thrown in at the deep end like Howden sometimes sink instead of swim. Coaching staffs run out of steam. There’s no constructive reason for all the hostility aimed at those who failed or didn’t reach expectations.

 

[Inferno]

My biggest issue with Quinn was his usage of top draft picks and decisions like this one



you get the opportunity to change lines in the offensive zone after a minute and a half of pressure and you choose the Howden-Rooney line to go out there? Absolutely no sense of awareness of the game

I mean...fine..but what were the circumstances around it? Who skated right before this shift? How was that line doing? Was anyone tired or hurt? Was someone in the doghouse for missing an assignment? What was the minute distribution like before this shift? How was howden and Rooney doing in this game? Again, I don't know the answer to any of those questions....but I'd say usage of players was perhaps Quinn's BEST attribute.

He played his best players a lot.

That's what you want to see.

 

[Inferno]

That’s kind of a water is wet argument though. At the time he made the team all of Howden, Andersson, Chytil and Nieves were in need of AHL time. The Rangers roster had been depleted of actual NHL players. The team was just beginning to restock on picks and prospects. One of those four above were going to be thrown in at the deep end and it turned out to be Howden…..and his first year wasn’t that bad all things considering.

If he had stayed with Tampa there’s little doubt he would have been in Syracuse for a couple years and perhaps be a much different player today. Because of the strength of aTampa’s lineup they’ve had the luxury of developing their players the right way and it shows when someone comes up from the Crunch they usually fit in seamlessly though Tampa has in recent years moved a lot of these guys too.

When Quinn took over for AV our organization was in a lot of disarray and it showed very much in Quinn’s first season. Things stabilized somewhat in his second season and the Rangers were actually able to make a playoff run before co I’d shut the season down. Whatever anyone thinks of the coaching staff that was good progress and then in this shortened season the Rangers were making another run 8-2-1 before they ran into the Islanders and Trouba got concussed at which point the wheels fell off the proverbial bus. Hockey is often a very cruel game. The higher the hopes usually the harder the crash.

Most people here need players or coaches to hate on and there’s too much of this dog whistle shit here. Players age and decline—younger kids sometimes thrown in at the deep end like Howden sometimes sink instead of swim. Coaching staffs run out of steam. There’s no constructive reason for all the hostility aimed at those who failed or didn’t reach expectations.

Agreed.

Quinn's biggest fan. But he HAD to be fired after the purge. Replacing him with gallant was a good move. With that said I can wager anything that the very same people here cheering over Quinn's corpse and pumping gallants tires will be posting and moaning about how gallant doesn't play his best players enough mins and gives too much time to bums who shouldn't be out there.

Be prepared...gallant spreads his time out and you're gonna see more 3td and 4th line minutes...that's not always a good thing.