Post-Game Talk: RANGER @ flies

[Larrybiv]

Miller too often relies on his reach when guys go wide and when you reach you stop skating so if it doesn’t work your beat. Yes, he was on his off side covering for Fox who stepped up, but your a big strong dude, don’t reach and stop skating, use your body to ride him wide. We’ve seen Miller do that this year plenty, gotta break those old habits.

Yeah bud, been saying that for the longest. Little by little he HAS been hitting more, still not enough imo. He must feel comfy with reaching AND staying in position opposed to the physical aspect. My main beef w/him, my pet peeve.

 

[Larrybiv]

He's a skilled guy, so playing with comparable line mates is going to help him tremendously. I think Gallant believes in him and is giving him the opportunity to show that he belongs.
He's become a scapegoat on this board, but that's just idiotic. There are many other areas of concern greater than Chytil not producing as a third line center.
Hopefully, the team remains patient and the kid continues to develop.
I really hope they don't trade him for a rental. That would be really short sighted.

Yes, very shortsighted. Been stated many times......he is 22!
You DO NOT trade away young talent so easily, I dont give a care i it is Hertl or anyone not named McDavid.
If he is still under achieving at the age of 24/25, well that's another thing. But somehow you just keep this kid, and play him. With whomever and Wherever he is feeling more confident and producing better. Just needs confidence.

 

[Larrybiv]

Chytil has produced the last few games with the move into the top 6, what more do people want?

I already know how this story ends though. The team is gonna move him in the off-season and then a year or two from now he’ll break out and people will be like “we should have never gotten rid of him!” as those same people today complain he needs to go lmao

That better NOT be how the story goes. The same people yearning for him to be gone are prob the same that wanted Buch exonerated. Different players, different reasons ($$$), age and upside and especially NEED.
How good with this team look with a NOT hurt Sammy Blais?

 

[romba]

Yeah bud, been saying that for the longest. Little by little he HAS been hitting more, still not enough imo. He must feel comfy with reaching AND staying in position opposed to the physical aspect. My main beef w/him, my pet peeve.

Yea Gauthier would love to play against Miller, he’d take him wide all day hoping he goes for the stick check and then the late desperation push

 

[kovazub94]

Strome is playing well at center. Chytil has sucked at center and is now playing better on the wing.

Let's switch them!

A “minor” change

 

[Larrybiv]

How many at ES? You want to keep winning and maybe make noise in the Playoffs? Yes, let's move him.

at the beginning of the season, many here (including myself) wanted him there as everyone was excited for the premise of Laffy and Kaapo moving up in the top 6. which would make the 3rd line even stronger with Kreids there. Problem is, he DESERVES his minutes and should be regarded as much more than a special teams specialist.
opposing teams are wary of him, and play their best against him sometimes. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

[Larrybiv]

We've been waiting 10 years for Kreider to play like he has this year at a consistent rate and people are trying to chuck him to the 3rd line.

haha, aint that the truth!

Kreider; "Hmmm, thats my reward for leading the team in many categories? no thanx.

 

[chosen]

not at all they played well together, just not finishing and once LaF gets his legs NHL optimal, w/better skating his scoring will go up.

that line DOES have chemistry

Putting Gauthier on a scoring line is like playing Tinordi at the point on a power play.

Maybe someday he'll prove us all wrong, but so far he is an absolute zero at generating goals for him or his linemates.

 

[chosen]

That better NOT be how the story goes. The same people yearning for him to be gone are prob the same that wanted Buch exonerated. Different players, different reasons ($$$), age and upside and especially NEED.
How good with this team look with a NOT hurt Sammy Blais?

You didn't mean "exonerated", right?

 

[bernmeister]

Putting Gauthier on a scoring line is like playing Tinordi at the point on a power play.

Maybe someday he'll prove us all wrong, but so far he is an absolute zero at generating goals for him or his linemates.

disagree
they are not finishing, but they are creating chances

 

[Crease]

disagree
they are not finishing, but they are creating chances

As a goalie I can tell you, a chance is not really a chance when the player has no finishing ability.

 

[bernmeister]

As a goalie I can tell you, a chance is not really a chance when the player has no finishing ability.

ability is there
they need LaF to get skating going to break out his scoring
that will make dif
Chytil + Gauthier are basically sufficiently skilled
just need proper LW and put it all together

 

[bhamill]

ability is there
they need LaF to get skating going to break out his scoring
that will make dif
Chytil + Gauthier are basically sufficiently skilled
just need proper LW and put it all together

Gotta say, Gauth is 24 right now and has been showing no flashes whatsoever of finishing ability or playmaking ability. Sure he is still developing, but I don’t think he is going to develop NEW skill sets at this point.

Chytil is really not panning out at center, and hasn’t been that great on the wing, but he’s got a couple of more years and he HAS shown flashes.

Laf obviously has improving to do, he’s barely out of his teens, but what he already does very well is get himself to areas he can score from, and bury the puck given the opportunity. Even the open net goals count there, how many players do we see miss those? He does not miss them. Neither Chytil nor Gauth compliments Laf or maximizes the skills he’s already developed. In fact it seems like NONE of the three compliments or maximizes the other two. Feels like they’re only a line because they're two wings and a sort of center and they have to play SOMEWHERE.

 

[mas0764]

Krieder is 4th in the nhl in goals. Only behind Drai, Ovi and Matthew. But sure, let’s move him to the 3rd line.

The majority of his goals are PP goals which he would still get all that time. At even strength he is, or was, tied with Lafreniere, who is the player who we'd be saying to swap him with.

And because his goals are not play-driving but rather deflections and tip ins, largely, I expect the consequence of such a switch would be

a) an uptick in Lafreniere's production by playing with Zibanejad, but also

b) an uptick in the third line's production as Kreider can tip in passes from anyone.

People keep trying to frame it as a demotion. I would expect increased production across the board. It's not a demotion, it's a balancing of the lineup that gives us the best production from everyone.

Why would people be against that?

 

[mas0764]

Chytil has produced the last few games with the move into the top 6, what more do people want?

I already know how this story ends though. The team is gonna move him in the off-season and then a year or two from now he’ll break out and people will be like “we should have never gotten rid of him!” as those same people today complain he needs to go lmao

I'm definitely not advocating we move Chytil unless it's for an equal young center talent.

 

[mas0764]

He’s 1st on the team with 9 at ES. So yes, I’d prefer not to move him to a line with 2 guys that haven’t proven they have the vision to make passes and who have proven they struggle with finishing. But hey let’s make the team worse, that will help us go deeper into the playoffs.

But Kreider doesn't really score much from set-up passing, he scores tip ins and deflections. Presumably those same opportunities will exist on the third line.

Kreider is the dirty goal finisher, that's why he could work there.

 

[Levitate]

I think Miller has such a long reach that it's often a surprise to opposing players, so it IS a valuable tool. Poke checks can be more valuable than a hit.
But yeah if he relies on it too much opposing players will adjust, and it is kind of a all or nothing attempt

 

[mas0764]

Chris Kreider has been the best forward this season, in every single aspect of the game.

Please, stop. It's a brain-dead take

That's just not true.

 

[romba]

But Kreider doesn't really score much from set-up passing, he scores tip ins and deflections. Presumably those same opportunities will exist on the third line.

Kreider is the dirty goal finisher, that's why he could work there.

No they won't. How many are CK finishing a sweet pass from Mika? Same difference as Goodrow lol? Mika's subtle move letting Kakko's pass go to Fox and then Fox head faking for an extra 6 inches of space, sending it low along the ice, between two defenders and right on to CKs stick doesn't happen with 4th liners or the 2nd/3rd pair of D. Not every tip is a point shot heave and prayer.

 

[mas0764]

I already know the reaction ("What, you are saying you want to dump Miller?!?" No, that's not what I'm saying), but if Miller was the defender who brought me back the best center in a package (better than Schneider or Lundkvist would bring back) I would certainly be open to that.

 

[mas0764]

No they won't.

I don't agree.

How many are CK finishing a sweet pass from Mika?

Not many. Most are tip ins, deflections, and clean up rebound goals.

Same difference as Goodrow lol? Mika's subtle move letting Kakko's pass go to Fox and then Fox head faking for an extra 6 inches of space, sending it low along the ice, between two defenders and right on to CKs stick doesn't happen with 4th liners or the 2nd/3rd pair of D. Not every tip is a point shot heave and prayer.

I don't know what goal you are citing but that would make 1 of 9 ES goals.

So that would mean we lose 1 goal there, but I bet Lafreniere's goals increase by more than 1.

 

[mas0764]

No they won't. How many are CK finishing a sweet pass from Mika? Same difference as Goodrow lol? Mika's subtle move letting Kakko's pass go to Fox and then Fox head faking for an extra 6 inches of space, sending it low along the ice, between two defenders and right on to CKs stick doesn't happen with 4th liners or the 2nd/3rd pair of D. Not every tip is a point shot heave and prayer.

Yeah, to follow up, here's all his goals (through 20) this season.

I had to get to 12 before I found a non-power play "sweet set up," from Zibanejad or anyone not a defender. Then another at 15 and 16 (16 was from Kakko, not Zibanejad, but fair enough).

So 3 out of the first 20.

 

[romba]

Yeah, to follow up, here's all his goals (through 20) this season.

I had to get to 12 before I found a non-power play "sweet set up," from Zibanejad or anyone not a defender. Then another at 15 and 16 (16 was from Kakko, not Zibanejad, but fair enough).

So 3 out of the first 20.

The goal I was talking about was literally the last goal he scored, the game winning 5 on 5 goal against SJ in the 3rd period.

There's more to goals than the pass leading directly to it. If you're not getting zone time with your linemates it often doesn't happen. Laf is shit along the boards, CK is not. Chemistry also plays a role in so many ways, zone break outs, break in etc. but whatever, you can make believe you can just replace CK with Laf in his spot and it would be good for the team and CK.

 

[mas0764]

The goal I was talking about was literally the last goal he scored, the game winning 5 on 5 goal against SJ in the 3rd period.

There's more to goals than the pass leading directly to it. If you're not getting zone time with your linemates it often doesn't happen. Laf is shit along the boards, CK is not. Chemistry also plays a role in so many ways, zone break outs, break in etc. but whatever, you can make believe you can just replace CK with Laf in his spot and it would be good for the team and CK.

So I'm to instead believe CK is such a good player that he can't thrive on the third line?

Then he's not really that good.

 

[THE BIG WHISTLE]

That's just not true.

The hate and the incompetent thinking on Kreider is just amazing here