OT: Raise the Jolly Roger: New season of plundering begins

[ChaosAgent]

Failure of a team.

Fire Haines

Bury Tellez

Eliminate half these guys

Ben Cherington sucks. Sucks. Sucks. Sucks. Career loser since people thought Dan Bylsma was good.

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

It's just a loser organization.

 

[BusinessGoose]

Pull down the jolly Roger, roll up a white flag

 

[ChaosAgent]

Bob Nutting is a bottom tier owner.

Ben Cherington is a bottom third GM.

WTF are we supposed to do. Why are we supposed to care?
It's not like Paul Skenes is going to do any better than Priester did today.

 

[BusinessGoose]

Bob Nutting is a bottom tier owner.

Ben Cherington is a bottom third GM.

WTF are we supposed to do. Why are we supposed to care?
It's not like Paul Skenes is going to do any better than Priester did today.

Might as well trade skenes or Jones to the Dodgers or Yankees for some international cash or some shit per usual

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

Skenes will be called up and they will try to make him a sinkerballer until they trade him to an organization that isn't stupid.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Skenes will be called up and they will try to make him a sinkerballer until they trade him to an organization that isn't stupid.

Who TF cares.

They scored 0. 0. 0. Runs.

They have scored like 17 runs in their past 9 games. Don't care to look up the actual stat, it doesn't matter.

These guys suck. Bryan Reynolds is a word that starts with P and ends in Y. Henry Davis is a head case.

 

[BusinessGoose]

0 for 7 with RISP

Just.. You gotta try to be that bad

Bednar is a clusterf***, too

 

[ChaosAgent]

Lamb, Gonzales, Bae and Grandal up.

Tellez gone. Triolo down. Davis down. Williams down.
Taylor benched. Reynolds...you mental p...y midget, you stay I guess.

I want to see Shelton stop playing nice and start obliterating these cowardly hitters.

 

[BusinessGoose]

I mean, just
.... DO SOMETHING

Shelton like Sullivan out here... I dont even care if what you try fails, TRY something... What youre rolling out ain't it, Skip

Demote some guys

Maybe don't put f***ing .184 Tellez out there for a CLUTCH situation.. I'm begging you... I dont think he even hits anything in batting practice... Why are you putting him on here?!? What the f*** is the rationale?

Why are pulling Stratton after a good inning... In a tie game.. To rush to f***in Chapman? Just so we can watch him throw in the dirt? Oh gonna put your closer bednar in, when we didn't score, and watch him put two on and give up a homer? What the shit?

April 26th...Last time we were five hundred for the year. What a waste. We've actively thrown away like five wins already.

 

[sovietsanta87]

Reading the comments I’m assuming we didn’t win

 

[ChaosAgent]

I say we put up 3!!!!!! Runs tomorrow.
All due to a random dart throw in Joey Bart.
Thank you so much, baseball czar Ben Cherington.

 

[MrBrightside]

22 runs in the last 11 games, and 2 or fewer in 9 of them. The scary thing is that we don't have a Skenes in Indy that can impact the lineup. Hell, we don't even have a Bailey Falter in Indy that can impact the lineup. The offense sucks and there's no help coming.

Also, I'm also old enough to remember everyone thinking the bullpen was going to be a strength.

 

[metalan2]

Have no lost 9 of 11 lol.

If I were to bet, I'd bet between 90-95 losses.

This team is bad on many levels. The worst of them being terribly mismanaged.

Have guys like Tellez who shouldn't even be on a major league roster getting significant playing time, and absolutely no depth anywhere in the organization for several bats.

First rounds busts everywhere. Only chance to remain competitive is squeaking out low scoring ball games if you can get a top 3 of Jones, skenes, and Keller to perform.

Sad state of affairs once again. It's just beyond obscene.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

The Tellez pinch hit really encapsulates Ben Cherington's Pirates in a single snapshot.

It's runners at second and third (after an empty steal, which is happening no matter who bats or pinch hits) with 0 outs. You need contact to have a decent shot at scratching out at least one run.

At the plate is the former number one overall pick who was drafted as part of a general draft strategy to spread the bonus around. The consensus reason this player was grouped in with the top draft prospects is his bat -- this has been accentuated in pro baseball through a strange, failed attempt to turn him into an outfielder.

You pinch hit for him with Rowdy Tellez, a veteran long-shot bounceback candidate at the one position you clearly need offensive impact from and knew that going into the offseason. The journeyman who is essentially a platoon partner for Tellez and who was already with the team (Joe) is better offensive and defensively. Tellez makes almost no money on a one year contact.

Davis would have struck out, Tellez does strike out.

 

[BusinessGoose]

Put anyone else for that bat. Put effing Williams. I dont know. Have Priester bat, f*** it. Tellez though? Ugh, you end up finishing with Bart in the game.. Have HIM bat there!

Pirates coaches trying to galaxy brain this... Get out of your own damn heads. Play the game that is in front of you.

 

[ChaosAgent]

The Tellez pinch hit really encapsulates Ben Cherington's Pirates in a single snapshot.

It's runners at second and third (after an empty steal, which is happening no matter who bats or pinch hits) with 0 outs. You need contact to have a decent shot at scratching out at least one run.

At the plate is the former number one overall pick who was drafted as part of a general draft strategy to spread the bonus around. The consensus reason this player was grouped in with the top draft prospects is his bat -- this has been accentuated in pro baseball through a strange, failed attempt to turn him into an outfielder.

You pinch hit for him with Rowdy Tellez, a veteran long-shot bounceback candidate at the one position you clearly need offensive impact from and knew that going into the offseason. The journeyman who is essentially a platoon partner for Tellez and who was already with the team (Joe) is better offensive and defensively. Tellez makes almost no money on a one year contact.

Davis would have struck out, Tellez does strike out.

Well said. BC has failed. Just didn't put enough in the pipeline to overcome Nutting, and married to a bad hitting approach.

 

[sovietsanta87]

Something has to change. Rolling out the same bullshit night in night out ain’t gonna cut it. You have to fire Haines and Shelton. Change the hitting philosophy. I’m sorry but there’s too much talent not to hit better. It’s a flawed approach that’s easy to attack and it’s negatively affecting every hitter that has been here longer than two weeks.

If this crew makes it through the off-season with another losing record I will firmly get pushed into the belief that Bob is going to sell this franchise when the lease is up in 2030

 

[ChaosAgent]

Change the hitting philosophy. I’m sorry but there’s too much talent not to hit better.

I'm sincerely not trying to defend Andy Haines, who sucks. But this idea of their talent level is super overstated. Unless I'm imagining stuff, didn't you say Cruz should be a 30/30 guy and Reynolds should be a borderline MVP hitter?

*Reynolds was a #100-#250 ranked prospect in the game who had a couple of great years but has settled comfortably in as an above-average corner OF ~.800 OPS guy
*Hayes is a #50-#100 prospect guy tied to his glove which was tagged as elite for years and years. If he was evaluated purely on his bat he would not have been a top 100 prospect as a 3B.
*Cruz indeed has amazing tools but had a very uneven minor league career including an epically bad beginning to 2022. Compare the stats of our Cruz against the Reds' Cruz and it's apparent who was the better prospect: https://www.milb.com/player/elly-de-la-cruz-682829

Cruz not breaking out is a failure. But he was always high variance.

*Suwinski was the 2nd piece in a trade for an average second baseman.
*Davis has talent but a lot of his draft projection was tied to his ability to play catcher. If he was a 1B or RF in college he never goes 1OA

Davis is also somewhat a failure of the regime, but he's also messing up himself.

*Triolo was a good prospect due to his glove


*The rest of the lineup is a 37 year old in Cutch, a fringey guy who is exceeding expectations in Joe, a Royals castoff in Olivares and a soon-to-be Korean/Japan league player in Tellez.

I think you can say the development regime has some culpability for Cruz and Davis, and Endy if he continues to only make soft contact upon returning. But otherwise you are vastly overstating the talent level.

 

[td_ice]

Yeah, like others, I am starting to tune out. Will keep an eye out to see when they have a pulse/to watch Jared Jones/and of course Skenes.

 

[BusinessGoose]

The team does string hits together

It just takes half the lineup and we end up getting third out before anyone gets home

Then the next four guys will strikeout

And now we've wasted two innings with nothing to show

Repeat 4 times, and it's a pirates loss

On any given night, we have for guys who can hit singles... They just won't be together in the batting order

 

[sovietsanta87]

I'm sincerely not trying to defend Andy Haines, who sucks. But this idea of their talent level is super overstated. Unless I'm imagining stuff, didn't you say Cruz should be a 30/30 guy and Reynolds should be a borderline MVP hitter?

*Reynolds was a #100-#250 ranked prospect in the game who had a couple of great years but has settled comfortably in as an above-average corner OF ~.800 OPS guy
*Hayes is a #50-#100 prospect guy tied to his glove which was tagged as elite for years and years. If he was evaluated purely on his bat he would not have been a top 100 prospect as a 3B.
*Cruz indeed has amazing tools but had a very uneven minor league career including an epically bad beginning to 2022. Compare the stats of our Cruz against the Reds' Cruz and it's apparent who was the better prospect: https://www.milb.com/player/elly-de-la-cruz-682829

Cruz not breaking out is a failure. But he was always high variance.

*Suwinski was the 2nd piece in a trade for an average second baseman.
*Davis has talent but a lot of his draft projection was tied to his ability to play catcher. If he was a 1B or RF in college he never goes 1OA

Davis is also somewhat a failure of the regime, but he's also messing up himself.

*Triolo was a good prospect due to his glove


*The rest of the lineup is a 37 year old in Cutch, a fringey guy who is exceeding expectations in Joe, a Royals castoff in Olivares and a soon-to-be Korean/Japan league player in Tellez.

I think you can say the development regime has some culpability for Cruz and Davis, and Endy if he continues to only make soft contact upon returning. But otherwise you are vastly overstating the talent level.

Except none of those players have hit worth a damn. It’s one thing to say guys have under performed their projections. It’s another when the entire organization can’t hit.

And I’m not even disagreeing with your assessment that they might not be good enough. But it’s easier to fire coaches than trade the entire roster.

A couple of things:

1) Cruz’s self expectation was a 30/30 season before he was injured in 2023. In 86 games as a rookie he hit 17 homers 10 stolen bases on 14 attempts. The mental approach is the hardest part of this game. But the tools were second to none. The bat speed, foot speed, arm strength and hand eye coordination didn’t go anywhere. He simply doesn’t know what to do at the plate.

2) Henry Davis was widely regarded as the best college bat in the draft. So this claim that his position is what made him a top pick is false. At the time scouts were split on if he could even stay at catcher.

3) Reynolds was a second round pick with first round pedigree. He finished 11th in the mvp race in 2021. Guess who was hired in 2022 as hitting coach? The same guy that turned Yelich from a MVP to a 205 hitter.

4) Hayes was never seen as a good hitting prospect. Agreed. I also remember everyone on here, including me, thinking he’d never hit over 250. Then he goes to Nunnally, comes back, starts to hit. And this organization fires nunnally.

If you’re advocating for nuking the whole thing, ok. But don’t be surprised if some of these guys breakout elsewhere. It would be classic for the pirates to trade these players away and then fans bitch about their success elsewhere. Poor development has been a tale as old as time here.

 

[MrBrightside]

Hard to see this lineup having success against Hicks.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Except none of those players have hit worth a damn. It’s one thing to say guys have under performed their projections. It’s another when the entire organization can’t hit.

And I’m not even disagreeing with your assessment that they might not be good enough. But it’s easier to fire coaches than trade the entire roster.

A couple of things:

1) Cruz’s self expectation was a 30/30 season before he was injured in 2023. In 86 games as a rookie he hit 17 homers 10 stolen bases on 14 attempts. The mental approach is the hardest part of this game. But the tools were second to none. The bat speed, foot speed, arm strength and hand eye coordination didn’t go anywhere. He simply doesn’t know what to do at the plate.

2) Henry Davis was widely regarded as the best college bat in the draft. So this claim that his position is what made him a top pick is false. At the time scouts were split on if he could even stay at catcher.

3) Reynolds was a second round pick with first round pedigree. He finished 11th in the mvp race in 2021. Guess who was hired in 2022 as hitting coach? The same guy that turned Yelich from a MVP to a 205 hitter.

I'm glad Oneil Cruz has confidence in himself. But realistically he's a boom-bust high variance prospect. We have seen this movie before with Alvarez and Polanco. Sincerely hoping he does well but he has glaring deficiencies at the plate. He was ranked anywhere from like 20 to the late 80s-90s in prospect rankings. By no means seen as a can't-miss guy.

Whatever on Reynolds. He was the main piece for a faded star in Andrew McCutchen in 2017, like the 4th ranked prospect in a terrible Giants farm system. He had a couple of very good years but also a terrible pandemic year. If he was supposed to be as good as you were saying he would have gotten much more than $100M.

If you want to act like these guys were supposed to be this ballyhooed class of hitters, that is false.

You seem to have an outsized view about the value of the hitting coach and the manager. I think Andy Haines categorically sucks but you can't tell me the MLB hitting coach dictates the decisions that are made in the quarter of a second, to swing or not to swing.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Pathetic ABs by a pathetic team of hitters.

Poor Joe. He deserves better.