OT: Raise the Jolly Roger: New season of plundering begins

[wheelz87]

18 straight innings. Absolute joke.

 

[Rave7215]

At what point do you fire Haines and Shelton? I'm serious. This is two years in a row the Major League club has gotten off to a hot start and then cooled. It seems like every prospect that comes up starts off hot and then cools. I can only think, based on pattern, that the longer the guys have to listen to Haines hitting philosophy, the worse the become. It can't be coincidence

 

[wheelz87]

Got to feel for the starting pitching, who for the most part have been excellent this year.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Do any of these clowns even hit the ball in the air?

Pathetic group of players and yes, the hitting coach. Feeble and sad.

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

Derek Shelton used to be a hitting coach.

Dude even hawked a hitting thing on TV.

You could have fooled me.

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

At what point do you fire Haines and Shelton? I'm serious. This is two years in a row the Major League club has gotten off to a hot start and then cooled. It seems like every prospect that comes up starts off hot and then cools. I can only think, based on pattern, that the longer the guys have to listen to Haines hitting philosophy, the worse the become. It can't be coincidence

Haines' hitting philosophy would work great with a lineup of 9 Juan Sotos but most players aren't good enough to take that many hittable pitches.

 

[sovietsanta87]

I'm glad Oneil Cruz has confidence in himself. But realistically he's a boom-bust high variance prospect. We have seen this movie before with Alvarez and Polanco. Sincerely hoping he does well but he has glaring deficiencies at the plate. He was ranked anywhere from like 20 to the late 80s-90s in prospect rankings. By no means seen as a can't-miss guy.

Whatever on Reynolds. He was the main piece for a faded star in Andrew McCutchen in 2017, like the 4th ranked prospect in a terrible Giants farm system. He had a couple of very good years but also a terrible pandemic year. If he was supposed to be as good as you were saying he would have gotten much more than $100M.

If you want to act like these guys were supposed to be this ballyhooed class of hitters, that is false.

You seem to have an outsized view about the value of the hitting coach and the manager. I think Andy Haines categorically sucks but you can't tell me the MLB hitting coach dictates the decisions that are made in the quarter of a second, to swing or not to swing.

Helped Hayes to go elsewhere

Regardless I think we can agree the players are better hitters than they are showing

 

[ChaosAgent]

Helped Hayes to go elsewhere

Regardless I think we can agree the players are better hitters than they are showing

I mean, no sh1t. The worst teams in the majors, ever, are more productive than the Pirates offense these last 2 weeks.

I hate Andy Haines too and accept you want to get mad at him. But he's not the man in the arena falling short. He is on the sidelines/in the dugout. It's the guys in the batter's box.

In his last AB, Jack Suwinski hacked away as you advocate. He failed miserably. The guys can't drive a baseball.

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

When Cruz came up he would smash fastballs at 120 mph and now he stares at fastballs to drive the pitch count up or whatever. I can't believe people are arguing that coaching isn't an issue.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I swear Joe and McCutchen are the only hitters in the lineup that aren't straight up guessing up there.
The other guys don't see the baseball or read spin. Absolutely a lack of talent.

When Cruz came up he would smash fastballs at 120 mph and now he stares at fastballs to drive the pitch count up or whatever. I can't believe people are arguing that coaching isn't an issue.

Oneil Cruz had an OPS of .744 in 2022. I mean, fcking whoa man.

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

Oneil Cruz had an OPS of .744 in 2022. I mean, fcking whoa man.

I never said he was Babe Ruth but you'd like to see a player improve from their first cup of coffee in the majors instead of regressing.

I mean, if you can't see that an approach of taking pitches doesn't work for Cruz I don't know what you are watching.

Also are you under the impression that an ops+ 8% better than average in a rookie season is bad or something?

 

[TNT87]

I go from watching shitty coaching of the Penguins to watching shitty coaching of the Pirates. Good times.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I never said he was Babe Ruth but you'd like to see a player improve from their first cup of coffee in the majors instead of regressing.

I mean, if you can't see that an approach of taking pitches doesn't work for Cruz I don't know what you are watching.

Haines and Cruz don't even speak the same language and Cruz wasn't with the Pirates in 2023.

Haines is one voice in a constellation of advice that these hitters get. This was explained very well on the MLBTR podcast. I want him fired because coaches should be fired all the time.

As usual you're also focusing on the taken pitches and not on the whiffs and foul balls on hittable pitches that our guys are constantly doing. They fail to square up baseballs. Up and down the lineup. And if they are squared up it's on the ground right at someone.

My inclination, just as it is when discussing Kenny Pickett or the Penguins power play or anything, is that it's both the players and the coaching. And with something as instinctive and visceral as hitting, I find it hard to believe that it isn't 80% players at least.

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

The Pirates have one of the lowest swing percentages with risp in baseball. As soon as the league found out that you get free strikes against this offense they've been anemic.

Of course they don't square up baseballs. They take the kind of pitches you square up and end up having to swing at crap.

 

[sovietsanta87]

I am merely advocating for firing the coaching staff first and seeing if anything improves. If it doesn’t, blow the whole thing up.

It’s just interesting to me that a guy like Haines has a track record for running offenses into the ground elsewhere.

And as I mentioned before, I’ve had instruction from a previous hitting coach that the pirates employed. He was terrible. Now he’s coaching a division 1 school and they’re sub. 500 every year. If you think this owner wouldn’t cheap out on development AND if you think that doesn’t affect the on field product because”players play” that’s fine.

It’s not just bad luck and poor scouting that leads to shitty results from this organization over multiple decades.

 

[ChaosAgent]

The Pirates have one of the lowest swing percentages with risp in baseball. As soon as the league found out that you get free strikes against this offense they've been anemic.

Of course they don't square up baseballs. They take the kind of pitches you square up and end up having to swing at crap.

Okay, so +3% take percentage. They still swing 50% of the time. They don't square shit up.

Keep scapegoating coaching though. I want them fired too. Just not a simpleton about it.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I mean the average payroll is well north of $100M and the average hitting coach makes like $500K. The market has spoken on the importance of hitting coaches. Maybe this year whoever wins the WS can hand the trophy to their hitting coach first.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

We have many the smallest of possible edges here in the 10th. It will be 6-7-8 for the Giants and we have the top of the order up.

I have no confidence whatsoever, but if there was ever a chance to steal one in extra innings, this is how you'd draw it up. We badly need this one.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

 

[BusinessGoose]

Whyyyyy lol

What are the odds of this shit lol

f*** bednar

 

[BusinessGoose]

RAISE IT

But my godddddd was that a rough win

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

This game is why saves are a dumb stat.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Yaz (who is heading to Tellez land) notwithstanding, it's clear the trust level in Bednar's 4 seam fastball is nonexistant.

97 and flat will always and forever be hittable for good hitters.

Good on Hayes and Reynolds in like, embodying development or whatever in the 10th inning.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I find it funny that this team actually won this game after the posts earlier

Don’t ask how, ask how many.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

Pretty gritty for Bednar to just nail that down. Still a chance to start moving in the right direction with Jones on the mound tomorrow. We could really use one of Reynolds or Hayes just getting red hot to help take this series and then ideally beat up on the A's (though they might not be as big of pushovers as the White Sox are).