OT: Raise the Jolly Roger: Dull days of July

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DJ Spinoza

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Aug 7, 2003
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Still awhile till our pick, any names you guys like?
Looks like both Waldschmidt and White will still be on the board as we start the comp round. Both college bats, would be nice to get the moonshot ceiling prep player at 9 and then a college bat to infuse into the system as well.

I like Dax Whitney as a prep arm in this range.
 
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ImporterExporter

"You're a boring old man"
Jun 18, 2013
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Tommy White would be interesting and ultimately may fill the 1B hole long term. The guy just screams solid big leaguer with a ton of heart that ends up being an October stud for the team who takes him. The reunion with Skenes would be dope. I don't see much of a ceiling but one has to think he won't cost you more than slot and that leaves you with a chance at going over slot in round 2 on a HS upside pick.
 

ImporterExporter

"You're a boring old man"
Jun 18, 2013
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With the speed, arm, and glove, Griffin should at least give you a Michael Taylor floor which is useful and not a horrendous outcome by any means. Basically, a guy who is in the running for multiple GG's and occasionally has an outlier season where he gives you a couple of runs with the bat. And if the bat does click, he's a perennial AS.
 
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DJ Spinoza

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The success this group has had with prep pitchers basically makes me blindly trust these kinds of picks.

I think there's a world where White continues to slide. If scouts don't think he will play 3B in the majors, then most teams aren't going to take that profile at this point in the draft.
 

td_ice

Peter shows the way
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Love that when the mlb draft panel was asked about what has stood out so far in the draft, two of the guys mentioned the Pirates pick of Griffin at 9.

Tony Vitello "Griffin and Caminiti both elite talents being picked later than anticipated."
 

td_ice

Peter shows the way
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Hmmm, maybe White at 47.

(I have no idea whether that would be good value or not, but having watched so many LSU games last season, I definitely like the kid.)
 

DJ Spinoza

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The best college bat left is Dakota Jordan, huge power but hit concerns.

Honestly it may not seem appealing in the short term but continuing to stockpile arms is never a bad idea. We seem to have a production line going and you can always trade pitching for hitting.
 

DJ Spinoza

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Sanford was a late riser in a draft that is thin on prep shortstops. This is very much the kind of prototypical MLB draft, where the name of the game is building out a system and the results won't be visible for quite a while.

I've only been reading a bit on Griffin, but I really like the HR swing with that pick. The second round looks like a run on HS talent which has been noted as weaker across the board in this draft, so a good bet that teams had certain guys they wanted and are acting quickly in order not to get sniped.

The major thing that stands out to me at first glance is what Arizona was able to do. Because they promoted guys and gained the extra picks, they landed two really good OF prospects and a projectable SS.
 
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td_ice

Peter shows the way
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The panel talked more about Griffin when giving a quick overview on the Pirates picks so far.

Both guys that love the Griffin pick mentioned Bryce Harper as a possible comp. in terms of elite athleticism at age18. The one panelist saying that Griffin has 30-30 potential.
 

DJ Spinoza

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Ultimately the bat that the Pirates need is someone that Ben Cherington needs to go out and swing a trade for. I think most everyone knows this, but the MLB draft just doesn't work any other way. You can get college players who are pushed up and on an MLB roster within 12 months, but it's rare, and they are often pitchers with mixed early results (look at Crochet's path until this year for a good example).

I don't think any of the available options out there are perfect, but it's also hard to deny that this team has played well enough to force Cherington's hands. It's been a frustrating grind of mediocrity, and it's perfectly viable to wonder if this team will hold up over the long haul/the tough stretch of games on the horizon. But at the end of the day, unless we immediately go into a huge tailspin after the break, we will be right in the thick of a playoff race at the deadline.
 
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Empoleon8771

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The more I read about Griffin, the happier I am with them taking the swing on him with their 1st. Seems like a high risk, high reward prospect but with huge upside. It's an absolute risk he busts because he's very young and I've read there are concerns with his swing, but his upside is downright monstrous if he can fix his swing.
 
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TimmyD

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So the biggest complaint I’ve seen is that this team/staff can’t develop guys… but people are praising the team for drafting a high school SS because his ceiling is so high, he’s just raw and needs developed… that doesn’t seem to make much sense to me
 

DJ Spinoza

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Every player in the draft needs to be developed, but the Pirates definitely haven't shown many returns with developing bats. McAdoo is having a great first season, Gonzales bounced back for now, but it's a mixed bag with Johnson and not a whole lot else to show just yet.

As a system play, it makes total sense to shoot for the moon at 9. Griffin is so obviously tooled up that if he has success in the minors, the hype will go bananas. The Adell comp that some have on him is easy to see, and it's easy to forget just how hyped Adell was before he entered MLB. Obviously, the other comp you can look at Griffin and dream on is Witt, though Griffin is a bit bigger and Witt happens to be one of the best hitters in baseball. But Witt is a total franchise gamechanger, and I'll take a stab at that with a pick in this range given the other options.

The only thing that gives me some pause is passing up Montgomery. He was ranked in the same bucket of players, usually a handful of spots higher, and has the fit team need more clearly, as he could get to Boston within 2 years. However, he doesn't have tremendous defensive upside other than the arm, and there are hit tool questions with him as well.

Ultimately, it could go down as a pivotal pick, and I think the comparison will be worth keeping in mind (along with a hat tip to Smith to the Cubs as well as Benge ending up going to the Mets with Stearns' first draft.... to me that's a flashing indicator that Benge will be a steady MLB regular in a couple of years). Montgomery could be playing in Boston in 2026, but if things progress well for Griffin, you could be talking about a consensus top-5 prospect with 30/30 upside who still reaches Altoona by 2026.

There's still a long road to go before that point, so we'll see how the early developmental years actually go. The other thing I have been wondering about in all of this is how much the rumors about the college balls (and in several cases, the bats) being juiced played into some decision making. A lot of NCAA players had their power numbers go absolutely bananas this year, but I'm sure the first three picks were a combination of several major factors.
 
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DJ Spinoza

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Low hanging fruit to pick on this blogger/hype man, but stuff like this doesn't really help in tracking a draft that is way different from the other pro sports (though it seems hockey might be closest).

It doesn't take a lot of critical thinking to track it. The unanimous opinion is that this year's draft is weaker than last year's. That means Bazzana, Condon, Burns are not in the same echelon as Skenes, Crews, and Langford -- and that's also true relative to the two top prep guys last year (Clark and Jenkins) compared to Griffin and Rainer.

Jenkins and Clark have worked their ways towards the top of lists, and it's possible that guys in this year's draft will as well. If I had to guess, Bazzana and Condon will probably be top-20 on lists, and some of the other guys selected will make the back half of a list, depending on the publication.

It's sort of a moot point until the players have some pro ball under their belt. Griffin has loud tools and will rise if he hits the ground running because 5-tool players are extremely rare. Jenkins and Clark are both in that mold, but Jenkins doesn't quite have plus or plus plus speed and the same is true with Clark's power. The question with Griffin's hit tool is definitely worrying, but he'll be tested in pro ball and we'll see where it comes out. Most scouts don't give HS hitters higher than a 50 for their hit tool for a variety of reasons. If he was graded higher, he would have been Bobby Witt Jr. and a slam dunk at 1.1 overall.

In any case, it's not a realistic expectation that Griffin would have been in top handful of picks convos. Analysts like Callis did think he could go that high (he said that Cleveland and Chicago both liked him over Rainer, as we did, but the opposite was true for the other teams), but nobody had him over a weaker college crop of which none play a premium position. Griffin will be a development project who requires some patience to even form an opinion about. The best case scenario for him would be a quick sign, some complex league experience, and if we want to be very aggressive, a week or two of games in single-A with Bradenton. That's basically the path that Jenkins and Clark took last year.

I'm still ambivalent about the pick, as I would have really liked Montgomery. I'm not sure he's going to get any playing time this year due to the injury, but there's a world where he gets to AA by the end of next year and is knocking on the MLB door in 2026. That could be frustrating, but Griffin's ceiling is big enough that it could have us indifferent to anything else if he starts showing his potential.

The last thing that may be worth noting right now is that this portfolio of all-prep talent might be the imprint of the new scouting director, Justin Horwitz. He came up in Boston and it sounds like he was fully in charge of the draft this year, although DelliCarri is still in an advising role (he is now the "vice president of scouting"). The major get he's associated with in Boston is Roman Anthony, who they signed to an over slot deal back in 2022 and who has rocketed up lists due to his performance in the minors so far.
 

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