Gallatin
A Banksy of Goonism
Patience is hard for most. But we need it right now. Call up Mitchell instead, He's got a better shot at early success IMO. The guy's close. Not sure about the ceiling, but he's close to ready.
Cruz is not.
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Cruz is not.
Coastal Kev
There will be "I told you so's" Bet on it
You never know which it is.....
Personally, I thought he would have a dropoff after getting sent down, throw in the fact it was abnormally cold....who knows.
I would bet anything he suddenly heats up in the next couple of weeks.
ChaosAgent
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I like get the perspective that since Cruz's demotion was largely viewed as service time manipulation, within a reasonable bound his performance in AAA should not dictate his promotion timing.
But Cruz has hit far below the floor of a "reasonable bound" at this juncture. Given all the hoopla and teeth gnashing, any OPS that starts with less than a .8 isn't acceptable.
DJ Spinoza
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I genuinely don't get the logic of "Cruz isn't ready right now, but if he hits well for 2 weeks, then he's ready."
It's just a pragmatics thing: it doesn't make any sense to promote a guy who has been struggling. I also sort of bristle at the idea that he's getting carved up or something. He's looked bad at the plate, but half the games were basically in winter conditions.
Fundamentally, I also don't know what's to be gained at the AAA level besides days off a service clock. Cruz needs a solid 6-7 games and then regular, consistent playing time in MLB. I think we'll probably see more foot dragging and excuses from the front office until Super Two has passed.
It's just a pragmatics thing: it doesn't make any sense to promote a guy who has been struggling. I also sort of bristle at the idea that he's getting carved up or something. He's looked bad at the plate, but half the games were basically in winter conditions.
Fundamentally, I also don't know what's to be gained at the AAA level besides days off a service clock. Cruz needs a solid 6-7 games and then regular, consistent playing time in MLB. I think we'll probably see more foot dragging and excuses from the front office until Super Two has passed.
ChaosAgent
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Did any scenario exist where you weren't going to complain about Cruz? Genuinely. Because he has sucked. Period. And given our current form he would make us a worse team today and watching him strike out every 2nd at bat won't exactly fill our fanbase with optimism.
Empoleon8771
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My general stance on Cruz is that if he's not tearing it up in AAA, I'll wait until the super-two deadline to call him up. I'd call him up regardless at that point, but he's not playing well enough in Indy right now for me to bother calling him up.
He's not doing enough to force my hand into calling him up.
He's not doing enough to force my hand into calling him up.
Gallatin
A Banksy of Goonism
That's how you and others choose to view it. I take a different approach - look at his tools and overall performance to indicate when ready. He was in no way ready last Fall, just as he wasn't this Spring, just as he isn't right now.
I'm looking forward to Cruz breaking the .600 OPS mark soon. What might that translate to here in pittsburgh - .500 OPS?
Hey I love the guy too but let's be logical here. O'Neil's still a huge lottery ticket, he's not making the kind of progress he should be right now, and I think he has a huge ego that's holding him back. He's starting to take some walks finally, but I don't want to see him anywhere near Pittsburgh this month.
Gallatin
A Banksy of Goonism
So you DO want him to come up, get his confidence destroyed, and rebuild at Triple AAA.
Ok I get it.
DJ Spinoza
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Enjoy the season, guys -- see you sometime later in the summer. I'm not really interested in trying to have discussions and them devolving into willful misrepresentation or trite speculation about psychology. Peace.
ChaosAgent
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I mean, Gallatin incorrectly responding to me aside...
You basically have been steadfast that your storyline for this season was going to be the "when are the cheap (team) going to bring up the (top prospect) and stop being evil" one. Which I get it! It may have been a thing! It was here in 2008 with Alvarez. 2013 with Cole. 2012 with Marte to some extent (not the same level of hype). 2016 with Glasnow. But the difference was Alvarez dominated. Cole dominated to a lesser degree. Glasnow was ungodly good at the minor league level up until the time, as you know. Hell...take, I dunno, Byron Buxton. #1OA prospect. During his "service time manipulation" year he was Ruthian compared to what Cruz is putting up now.
Like you can totally embrace the "evil service time manipulation" as one of the main subplots of the season but the player in question HAS TO HOLD UP THEIR END OF THE BARGAIN. Which is to annihilate their level in the minors. Cruz's OPS is barely above Yoshi's in the MLB, and we're trying to dump Yoshi! This is unbelievably silly and you are better than this as a logical thinker.
Hopefully cooler heads will prevail. As this is a relatively small participation thread. And we need all the quality posters we can get.
We're all Pirates fans here, who cares if we disagree on various issues. Let's just keep it civil and respect all opinions.
We're all Pirates fans here, who cares if we disagree on various issues. Let's just keep it civil and respect all opinions.
ChaosAgent
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Like I guess, and DJ is a really good guy, but he's saying he is being misinterpreted and isn't proving it at all.
He intended to pressure the Pirates to bring Cruz up the entire year and Cruz's April did nothing to change his mind. It's easy to say you're being misquoted, not easy to actually correct it.
I really wish we didn't have to have this disagreement. I fully anticipated getting antsy for them to bring Cruz up already at this point. Unfortunately he is hitting .176/.282/.284. Come on. It's like posters claiming Sullivan ruined Riikola or something. Maybe Kapanen. Like this board is anti-Sully in totality but there are limits to the plausibility of anti-Sullivan claims. It's beneath him to let the Cruz narrative overtake his posting.
If anything the complaining about manipulation should be directed towards their treatment of Roansy. Since he could at least, ya know, help the team beyond any doubt right now (and he's as good of a prospect as Cruz).
ChaosAgent
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All that said I hope DJ comes back. Cruz is going to go on a tear - and I mean it and believe it!
It's also been frustrating. There has been more bad than good in the MILB system so far this year. But it's early.
It's also been frustrating. There has been more bad than good in the MILB system so far this year. But it's early.
DJ Spinoza
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I'll be back in June I'm sure, not really looking to make a big deal out of anything. It seems like a pattern repeats itself any time there are disagreements that don't just fizzle out -- things get restated into something that flouts what's being said (I wrote numerous times that I don't think Cruz can be called up while struggling) or turned into flippant dismissal. I have other stuff to do, not sure it's worth getting into these predictable back and forths.
ChaosAgent
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There isn't that much to debate really.
Cruz is a polarizing player both in terms of his track record and ultimate potential. I don't like the team's move of clearly bringing him up last year to sell tix/hype for this year then they had no intention of bringing him up until May at least. It's all a little rotten. I like to think it will have little bearing on what he ultimately becomes, one way or another.
Gallatin
A Banksy of Goonism
I wholly endorse this post. All of it.
Post automatically merged:
You have been hammering the Cruz thing even when it got illogical IMO.
I clearly got annoyed and lashed out a bit.
I'll miss you upon your departure, and hope you can't hold out.
Apologies.
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DanielPlainview
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Empoleon8771
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DanielPlainview
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Reynolds continues to be brutal at the plate. Have to think at some point this is goin to balance out with a .500 month
ImporterExporter
"You're a boring old man"
Hayes has not been very good over at 3B lately. Some really, really shitty errors costing us multiple runs.
dogthateats
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DanielPlainview
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ChaosAgent
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Scandale du Jour
JordanStaal#1Fan
ChaosAgent
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The pitching is exceeding expectations generally. The hitting...bleh.
Reynolds looked much better. I love Castillo at the dish BUT he has a huge ground ball problem. Needs to get balls in the air. Guy is a GIDP machine because he doesn't have great speed like a Newman to where he's difficult to double-up.
Glad to see Marisnick and Gamel have strong games. When is Allen coming back? I'm guessing he's the guy that gets Tucker outta here.
Reynolds looked much better. I love Castillo at the dish BUT he has a huge ground ball problem. Needs to get balls in the air. Guy is a GIDP machine because he doesn't have great speed like a Newman to where he's difficult to double-up.
Glad to see Marisnick and Gamel have strong games. When is Allen coming back? I'm guessing he's the guy that gets Tucker outta here.
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