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OT: Raise the Jolly Roger: Congrats to the Houston Cheaters on their win

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I tend not to directly quote people unless there's specific information I'm responding to or there's a specific argument going on instead of just general, open-ended chatter. There are like 10 or 15 people who post in here regularly, so I just kinda don't see the point. I guess sometimes it might come across as not directly engaging but for the most part I don't see shooting the shit here like a debate club, even when the regulars get into arguments.

My sense for why people assume that Crews will move to a corner in MLB is in part because it will accelerate his timeline even more. LSU had or has (I don't remember if he graduated) a very good defensive CF, so I don't think Crews has had a lot of looks there.

The argument about pitching at the top of a draft that I still buy is that a team like the Pirates cannot get impact pitching unless they develop it themselves. The same also holds true for true impact bats, though I guess there are perhaps some more routes to getting them. There is plenty of time between now and the draft to see how things unfold.

My .02 is that developmentally, it seems to me that certain franchises tend to be good at certain things and stick with them, so chasing any kind of need is always a mistake. I default to the college bat profile because it generally works out to be the safest one.
 
No one knows how any of these kids will pan out. You can make your case for either player. We lost 100 games AGAIN…take the best player available. Because we need the best.
 


Still empty words, but this is a good sign compared to the alternative. I am definitely not swayed by the recent pickups, but Garcia was needed and Velasquez is a better upside play for swingman/competition for backend than other options. This is more credit than they deserve, but I do actually like the assertiveness of how the moves are playing out so far. This was true of Quintana last year, though Anderson signed much closer to spring training.

The missing move is still so obvious that it doesn't need to be said, but supplementing and building out better quality depth is a necessary step for getting away from atrocious stretches and the bottom falling out. There are still a number of whatever spots on the depth chart, but inching forward is better than nothing. I'm not really holding out much more hope than for Manaea on an opportunity play or Wacha on a sneaky value play, but the good thing is that it's still early.
 
Very uninterested in the 1OA pick.

Is Davis, our last 1OA, even be a better prospect than whoever we get for Reynolds?
 
Crews and Dollander are pacing to be different kind of 1.1 and 1.2 picks. With strong and consistent showings, we're talking guys that would push the 70 FV tier. It's still too early to totally celebrate but it's definitely a pretty big deal to be in principle guaranteed that addition.
 
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DJ Spinoza said:
Crews and Dollander are pacing to be different kind of 1.1 and 1.2 picks. With strong and consistent showings, we're talking guys that would push the 70 FV tier. It's still too early to totally celebrate but it's definitely a pretty big deal to be in principle guaranteed that addition.
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I get what both you and @Empoleon8771 are saying.

I'm countering with this: franchise, don't frigging distract me with draft games this year. I won't get suckered into following the team and thus baseball on behalf of "Crews or Dollander." This team and its advertisers will get my eyeballs if they show material improvement at the ML level this year. I don't want a month of "Crews or Dollander" as a pleasant opium (opiate?) of the fanbase if we're playing .375 baseball.
 
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Idk, I feel like the off-season overall has been very positive outside of Reynolds' trade request. And frankly, the Pirates can tell him to just piss off and play baseball anyway, he can't go anywhere for 3 years without the Pirates agreeing to move him.

Going into next year with an improved roster (which will be the case unless they trade Reynolds) and holding the #1 pick for what seems like a Gerrit Cole caliber prospect seems like a pretty obvious way to make fans optimistic about next year. If they add a mid rotation starter, bring back Perez and don't trade Reynolds, I feel like this off-season should just create optimism for fans.

Now, if they trade Reynolds, especially if it's for a mediocre return, a lot of that goodwill will go away. But until they move him, I'll still believe this off-season will make fans more optimistic going into next year.
 
Empoleon8771 said:
Idk, I feel like the off-season overall has been very positive outside of Reynolds' trade request. And frankly, the Pirates can tell him to just piss off and play baseball anyway, he can't go anywhere for 3 years without the Pirates agreeing to move him.

Going into next year with an improved roster (which will be the case unless they trade Reynolds) and holding the #1 pick for what seems like a Gerrit Cole caliber prospect seems like a pretty obvious way to make fans optimistic about next year.
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The team in 2011 was actually over .500 when they drafted Cole. That spurred a lot of interest. Yes it collapsed later on especially after the McKenry play.

Point being - I need better on-field results and/or some sickeningly good performances from the prospects we have vested everything in. Keller becoming a mid-rotation starter, Cruz with a .744 OPS and Endy's AA heroics aren't enough.
Need this team to flirt with .500 for a while and a couple of huge prospect breakthroughs. 2/3 of Endy-Davis-Gonzales, Priester and either Solo or Chandler would do.
 
In terms of moves that may influence the Reynolds market:



It's impossible to say what happens with Judge right now, I get the vibe that SF is ahead but you're hearing both ways right now. But SF getting Haniger and the Cubs getting Bellinger takes out 2 of the Reynolds alternatives teams may have. Right now, you have Judge, Benintendi, Nimmo and Conforto, that's really about it.
 
The bar for me is still pretty clear: an investment in a mid-tier FA who will be part of the solution beyond 2023. I'm fine with the improvements and think that unless there's bad luck, the team should comfortably be in the next tier of fringe .500 teams but nothing more. A real addition beyond 2023 demonstrates commitment in the right direction, and most importantly, the finances should be there to do it.

Perez is going to be pretty cheap if he's the C option, so a position player or SP who makes something like 12-16M per year is easily doable, and then another couple of cheap options bring the total payroll somewhere near respectability for a young team that is trying to clearly improve. I think I said this exact thing earlier, but I am expecting at most a pitcher for 2/20M or something along those lines, and then a few more cheap, sub-5M types including Perez to round it out. That's on the fringes of fine / meh for me, with whatever happens with Reynolds looming very large. It wouldn't be enough to really change my opinion of the current front office.
 
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DJ Spinoza said:
Perez is going to be pretty cheap if he's the C option, so a position player or SP who makes something like 12-16M per year is easily doable, and then another couple of cheap options bring the total payroll somewhere near respectability for a young team that is trying to clearly improve. I think I said this exact thing earlier, but I am expecting at most a pitcher for 2/20M or something along those lines, and then a few more cheap, sub-5M types including Perez to round it out. That's on the fringes of fine / meh for me, with whatever happens with Reynolds looming very large. It wouldn't be enough to really change my opinion of the current front office.
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Certainly I want to see how the outside acquisitions perform. I want to know how BC's talent evaluation is at a ML level. It's mixed so far, with Anderson and Quintana as the success stories but not much else. Hence our records.

What would also change my mind of the front office is if our prospects lit the world on fire. By the standards of trading away Musgrove, Marte, Taillon, Bell and Frazier and having the 7th, 1st and 4th overall pick (+ the high pick the year before), our system is meh. Of course it's above-average but it isn't exceeding the expectations of a tankjob farm system. I know we have a poster who rattles off literally every name of a pitcher in H-A and lower but the low minors aren't even above-average prospect-wise.
 
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Glad to see the Pirates get the top pick. I completely forgot the draft lottery was tonight.
 
Judge is still a Yankee.

Im not sure if this effect their interest in Reynolds but id imagine after dropping that bag, a cheap good OF looks really enticing right about now.
 
DocEmrickSkitters said:
The team in 2011 was actually over .500 when they drafted Cole. That spurred a lot of interest. Yes it collapsed later on especially after the McKenry play.

Point being - I need better on-field results and/or some sickeningly good performances from the prospects we have vested everything in. Keller becoming a mid-rotation starter, Cruz with a .744 OPS and Endy's AA heroics aren't enough.
Need this team to flirt with .500 for a while and a couple of huge prospect breakthroughs. 2/3 of Endy-Davis-Gonzales, Priester and either Solo or Chandler would do.
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I'm still struggling with the idea that it's been a "very positive" offseason when the additions are a couple of meh 1B/DH types and a 6th starter. It's such an example of living in a bubble - the fan boy segment will support the team no matter what, but the idea that the average fan that doesn't spend time posting winter ball videos of Jared Trolio is going to be excited over what they've done this offseason is absurd.
 
This offseason has been pretty whelming, but I can’t imagine there are many free agents really interested in signing with the Pirates right now. I just think back to Dyson saying something like “You just have to take what you can get sometimes” when talking about signing here.

Overall I just remain a little skeptical of Cherington. I think it was smart to gut the team and tank, but now a lot of those prospects are knocking at the door. At a certain point you need to commit to trying to win. And right now it seems like we’re straddling the fence a bit.
 
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xlm34 said:
This offseason has been pretty whelming, but I can’t imagine there are many free agents really interested in signing with the Pirates right now. I just think back to Dyson saying something like “You just have to take what you can get sometimes” when talking about signing here.

Overall I just remain a little skeptical of Cherington. I think it was smart to gut the team and tank, but now a lot of those prospects are knocking at the door. At a certain point you need to commit to trying to win. And right now it seems like we’re straddling the fence a bit.
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This is correct. There's definitely a chicken-or-the-egg situation taking place as it's hard to attract free agents of note when you're not committed to spending and winning, but it's also hard to do that when free agents aren't interested in coming. That said, the Pirates have done this to themselves and need to break the cycle one way or the other.
 
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