OT: Raise the Jolly Roger: Congrats to the Houston Cheaters on their win

[since70]

That is The Slush Fund/Tax on the Mega Franchises so the small market owners make money. Yes Ridiculous statement that the Red SUX bitched & Moaned & MLB changed the rule

and what does any of that have to do with fielding a team that people will pay to see and root for, every team is affected by the rules, it's not the reason they're constantly a bad baseball team.

 

[Josey Wales]

Without Salary Cap & Floor the Pens & Steelers are the Pirates

and what does any of that have to do with fielding a team that people will pay to see and root for, every team is affected by the rules, it's not the reason they're constantly a bad baseball team.

if you can't get it, that is not my fault

 

[DJ Spinoza]

Edit, brought up Lopez multiple times this year, hit another 2 dingers today.

Another nice minors story that's been a bit buried is Tahnaj Thomas taking to the reliever role.



I think he has the stuff to be a weapon in a bullpen, and the biggest thing is that it seems like after settling into the role, he's getting the walk issues under control. That's probably the biggest thing other than health that will make him a relief option in the next year or so.

 

[ImporterExporter]

I'd just like to point out that it's interesting how this section has seen an uptick in people posting to coincide with this team having a horrendous month of July (back in June I posted on here that July would be awful), and the bitching and moaning quotient has increased significantly.

We get it. We suck right now. Need I remind people that year 3 of Huntington saw this team lose 103 games.

If you're going to complain ad nauseam, please take it to facebook or reddit or twitter....

 

[bigdaddyk88]

This reminds me of when the reds president said this to start the season

Castellini apologizes to fans: 'I understand how our fans feel and I'm sorry'

In an interview Tuesday, Reds president Phil Castellini told fans to 'be careful what you ask for' when calling for ownership changes.

www.wcpo.com

 

[ChaosAgent]

I'd just like to point out that it's interesting how this section has seen an uptick in people posting to coincide with this team having a horrendous month of July (back in June I posted on here that July would be awful), and the bitching and moaning quotient has increased significantly.

We get it. We suck right now. Need I remind people that year 3 of Huntington saw this team lose 103 games.

If you're going to complain ad nauseam, please take it to facebook or reddit or twitter....

Nah. This year was supposed to show progress. There isn't any. Anywhere really.

I hope Cherington lucks into the run that Huntington did. Given he had losing records 3/4 years with BOS, doubt it.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think the thing with Nutting is that he will be willing to spend when the team is good, but until they're actually good, he's not willing to spend any money. The Pirates payroll never got really that high, but their payrolls in the 4 years from 2015-2018 were all $86 million or more.

This team will need to spend money before they become good again, but to act like this team is bad solely because they won't spend money is a fallacy. Nutting doesn't want to spend money on a bad team, he wants to start spending money on a cheap team that becomes good. They'll never be top spenders, but I completely believe that the Pirates will be spending $100m-$120m if they can develop a core of home grown talent that makes the team good enough for Nutting to green-light that spending.

But this year, Nutting really has no relevance to why they're bad. They're bad because they're still in the middle of a rebuild that started 3 years ago. Even Cherington himself has indicated that he thinks the 2024-2026 timeframe is really when the rebuild should be complete.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I think the thing with Nutting is that he will be willing to spend when the team is good, but until they're actually good, he's not willing to spend any money. The Pirates payroll never got really that high, but their payrolls in the 4 years from 2015-2018 were all $86 million or more.

This team will need to spend money before they become good again, but to act like this team is bad solely because they won't spend money is a fallacy. Nutting doesn't want to spend money on a bad team, he wants to start spending money on a cheap team that becomes good. They'll never be top spenders, but I completely believe that the Pirates will be spending $100m-$120m if they can develop a core of home grown talent that makes the team good enough for Nutting to green-light that spending.

But this year, Nutting really has no relevance to why they're bad. They're bad because they're still in the middle of a rebuild that started 3 years ago. Even Cherington himself has indicated that he thinks the 2024-2026 timeframe is really when the rebuild should be complete.

This is a reasoned take. The question is whether the internal talent is enough to take them to a .500 team on a ~$70M payroll. If that happens we'll see the additional $40-$50M poured in. Where I'm despondent now is how badly the internal talent has performed this year, with no breakouts at the upper levels and virtually everyone being overmatched at the bigs.

 

[Empoleon8771]

This is a reasoned take. The question is whether the internal talent is enough to take them to a .500 team on a ~$70M payroll. If that happens we'll see the additional $40-$50M poured in. Where I'm despondent now is how badly the internal talent has performed this year, with no breakouts at the upper levels and virtually everyone being overmatched at the bigs.

If it can't, the Pirates would have truly wasted numerous high end draft picks and it would be a massive stain on their player development.

All of Gonzalez, Davis and Johnson were viewed as almost sure-fire prospects because of how good their bats were. Each of them had questions, mostly with defense and age IIRC, but most scouts expected their bats would be terrific. If they can't get MLB hitting out of those 3, Cruz, Reynolds, Hayes and the rest of their prospect pool, that just looks horrible for the organization.

 

[Gallatin]

If it can't, the Pirates would have truly wasted numerous high end draft picks and it would be a massive stain on their player development.

All of Gonzalez, Davis and Johnson were viewed as almost sure-fire prospects because of how good their bats were. Each of them had questions, mostly with defense and age IIRC, but most scouts expected their bats would be terrific. If they can't get MLB hitting out of those 3, Cruz, Reynolds, Hayes and the rest of their prospect pool, that just looks horrible for the organization.

What in the hell are you talking about Empoleon? There's no such thing as a sure thing in baseball development. This ain't football.

 

[Empoleon8771]

What in the hell are you talking about Empoleon? There's no such thing as a sure thing in baseball development. This ain't football.

There isn't, but if you can't get anything out of the prospects you currently have with the tools they possess, that's a massive developmental failure.

 

[Gallatin]

There isn't, but if you can't get anything out of the prospects you currently have with the tools they possess, that's a massive developmental failure.

Well yeah of course. But that hasn't been proven to be the fact so far in this rebuild. And we're still in the late teardown phase.

 

[ChaosAgent]

If it can't, the Pirates would have truly wasted numerous high end draft picks and it would be a massive stain on their player development.

All of Gonzalez, Davis and Johnson were viewed as almost sure-fire prospects because of how good their bats were. Each of them had questions, mostly with defense and age IIRC, but most scouts expected their bats would be terrific. If they can't get MLB hitting out of those 3, Cruz, Reynolds, Hayes and the rest of their prospect pool, that just looks horrible for the organization.

But even if they do that, the timing has to line up. That's what the whole "window" concept is here.

Like the league-average pitching from Brubs, Keller, Thompson and Crowe is going to cost $10-$12M in arbitration and not $3M. Hayes will cost more. And if his defense regresses at all or has injury issues his contract could be an albatross. Reynolds will cost more. Even Cruz is going to hit arbitration before you know it, with how much we're pushing back the supposed window.

They simply have to get improved results from the B prospects at AAA/MLB/shuffling back and forth. The fact that only one popped in Suwinski then he fell off a cliff is a failure. Andy Haines, whatever. That's Cherington's guy.

In a way it is all Nutting's fault because building a .500 team with a $60-70M payroll is nearly impossible. He is 100x worse as an owner than Cherington is as a GM. Cherington is just ok. Nutting is a disgrace.

 

[MrBrightside]

I'd just like to point out that it's interesting how this section has seen an uptick in people posting to coincide with this team having a horrendous month of July (back in June I posted on here that July would be awful), and the bitching and moaning quotient has increased significantly.

We get it. We suck right now. Need I remind people that year 3 of Huntington saw this team lose 103 games.

If you're going to complain ad nauseam, please take it to facebook or reddit or twitter....

Always enjoy when people tell everyone else what is acceptable to post. How dare anyone say anything bad about a team that's played at a 56-106 pace since the 2019 All-Star Break! Post videos of kids in Bradenton and talk about how they will win championships in 2028 and shut the hell up otherwise!

Good times, Mr. Board Police.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Always enjoy when people tell everyone else what is acceptable to post. How dare anyone say anything bad about a team that's played at a 56-106 pace since the 2019 All-Star Break! Post videos of kids in Bradenton and talk about how they will win championships in 2028 and shut the hell up otherwise!

Good times, Mr. Board Police.

Worse yet, salivate over some 16 year old as a reason to keep tanking in 2023-2024.

 

[MrBrightside]

Worse yet, salivate over some 16 year old as a reason to keep tanking in 2023-2024.

I mean, the economics of baseball are broken. No question. To use that as a justification for the lack of investment and mismanagement we've experienced is absolutely akin to saying to someone "hey, you're not very good looking, so it's cool to weigh 3 bills and not shower since you'd struggle to get a chick anyway."

I could live with struggling this year if there was evidence of a plan or evidence of improvement. There isn't, at least not above the low minors. Of all the recent #1's, who has NOT been disappointing this year? Swaggerty? Gonzales? Davis? Mlodzinski? Priester is the only one who hasn't been disappointing. The kids who are showing something like Marcano and Contreras are being buried in AAA behind journeymen jobbers. Hayes is Jordy Mercer v2.0. When Mitch Keller is the best thing that's happened to you all season, it's not great.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I mean, the economics of baseball are broken. No question. To use that as a justification for the lack of investment and mismanagement we've experienced is absolutely akin to saying to someone "hey, you're not very good looking, so it's cool to weigh 3 bills and not shower since you'd struggle to get a chick anyway."

I could live with struggling this year if there was evidence of a plan or evidence of improvement. There isn't, at least not above the low minors. Of all the recent #1's, who has NOT been disappointing this year? Swaggerty? Gonzales? Davis? Mlodzinski? Priester is the only one who hasn't been disappointing. The kids who are showing something like Marcano and Contreras are being buried in AAA behind journeymen jobbers. Hayes is Jordy Mercer v2.0. When Mitch Keller is the best thing that's happened to you all season, it's not great.

I wasn't expecting a winner this year. Not even close.

But I expected the 2nd half to be be better than the first half from the lineup.
I expected more from Hayes, Reynolds, Cruz collectively. Don't quote me their WAR numbers when it overvalues defense and doesn't account for situational play which is horrendous. Cruz cost us .4 wins Saturday alone. That won't be accounted for in any fangraphs calc.

I expected serviceable performance from 2 retreads. I guess you could argue we got it from Vogelbach. Maybe if you squint you say Newman is a new in-house retread and he's doing okay.

And I expected 2 guys to come in and look like ML starters. As of now only Suwinski found his footing and then plummeted and got himself sent to Indy.

Indy is 10th in the IL in OPS. Not good enough.
I could have lived with a 65 win season if the arrow pointed upwards. It isn't.

The pitching has been acceptable though. Wish we'd cash in on Bednar.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Miserable people probably live miserable lives.
-Me

 

[ChaosAgent]

Miserable people probably live miserable lives.
-Me

Go pack your son's bowl and read the Tao of whatever.

 

[MrBrightside]

Miserable people probably live miserable lives.
-Me

Rum Bunter has the tone you're looking for. ALL IS WELL AND F YOU IF YOU DON'T AGREE. You'll love it there.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Rum Bunter has the tone you're looking for. ALL IS WELL AND F YOU IF YOU DON'T AGREE. You'll love it there.

Actually Rumbunter's twitter has turned hard on the IEs and Gallys of the world haha

 

[MrBrightside]

Actually Rumbunter's twitter has turned hard on the IEs and Gallys of the world haha

Wow I've missed that. When you've lost RumBunter you're really struggling.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Go pack your son's bowl and read the Tao of whatever.

Rum Bunter has the tone you're looking for. ALL IS WELL AND F YOU IF YOU DON'T AGREE. You'll love it there.

I'm already winning w/these responses. I'm not moving off my spot boys.

I'll be here when this team is winning 80-90 games in 2024 and 90+ in 2025.

And you'll be either gone, or acting like you believed all along.

Like I said. Year 3 of Huntington saw us lose 103. ONE. ZERO. THREE.

Acting like 2022 is some massive failure, given the lineups we've been trotting out is telling about those who's only contributions is complaining about shit everyone already knows.

 

[MrBrightside]

I'm already winning w/these responses. I'm not moving off my spot boys.

I'll be here when this team is winning 80-90 games in 2024 and 90+ in 2025.

And you'll be either gone, or acting like you believed all along.

Like I said. Year 3 of Huntington saw us lose 103. ONE. ZERO. THREE.

Acting like 2022 is some massive failure, given the lineups we've been trotting out is telling about those who's only contributions is complaining about shit everyone already knows.

You keep saying this ONE ZERO THREE thing like (a) it actually happened or (b) it matters. They lost 105 games in 2010, not 103, but that team also had Cutch and Walker and Alvarez in the majors, soon to be supplemented with FA/trades like Burnett and Martin and Liriano. This team is way more in the 2008-2009 period of the Huntington cycle, not the 2011-2012 period that you keep suggesting.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I'm already winning w/these responses. I'm not moving off my spot boys.

I'll be here when this team is winning 80-90 games in 2024 and 90+ in 2025.

And you'll be either gone, or acting like you believed all along.

Like I said. Year 3 of Huntington saw us lose 103. ONE. ZERO. THREE.

Acting like 2022 is some massive failure, given the lineups we've been trotting out is telling about those who's only contributions is complaining about shit everyone already knows.

Wow, we'll be winning 80+ games in 2024??????????

Holy crap what a bold take! That's amazeballs!

Thank you so much!!!!!!!!