Race to the bottom - Rebuild thread #2.

[JackJ]

5 monkeys are in a room with a banana. The banana is rigged so that if a monkey touches it, all 5 monkeys get shocked. First monkey tries to touch it, they all get shocked, and the other 4 beat him up for it. One of the monkeys gets replaced with a new one. He doesn't know the rules and naturally goes for the banana, but the other 4 stop him. He doesn't know what happens when you touch the banana, but he knows not to do it. Replace all the monkeys slowly one by one, and you'll have a group of monkeys where none of them know why touching the banana is bad, none of them have ever been shocked, but they know not to do it. Even if the banana stopped being rigged after the first time, they still won't touch it and none of them know why exactly.

This is our locker room. Go ahead and tell me that Kulemin is the only guy left from the Muskoka 5 days. Go ahead and tell me that this is Burke/Nonis's team. Blue and White disease still lingers, even though none of the guys on the team were part of the Muskoka 5 era. This organization needs a thorough purge and rebuild.

A purge isn't necessary. Just a tipping of the scales back to a hard working gritty roster.An 80(Grit)/20(Soft) mix should enough not the 70(soft)/30(grit) we have at the moment.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Top 2 pick isn't easy with the Sabres and the Oilers.

The Leafs need to do whatever it takes to trade for a top 2 pick. Offer Gardiner, plus 1st if needed to get it done.

Ekblad > Reinhart for the Leafs.

Ekblad, Rielly will go a long way in reducing Phaneuf's role on this team so he doesn't feel burdened.

I've been saying this. the INSTANT (regardless of where we fall) things shake down, you offer Edmonton defense prospect, Reimer, and ________ and get their pick the end. McTavish can't enter 2014 with that goaltending duo.

I don't know what you target with Buffalo. I think Buffalo is going to go with Reinhart because they've got a really good defense system with youngsters and they need scoring eventually.

 

[Pi]

I've been saying this. the INSTANT (regardless of where we fall) things shake down, you offer Edmonton defense prospect, Reimer, and ________ and get their pick the end. McTavish can't enter 2014 with that goaltending duo.

I don't know what you target with Buffalo. I think Buffalo is going to go with Reinhart because they've got a really good defense system with youngsters and they need scoring eventually.

True.

Use Reimer, 1st and more as trading chip to get that #2 pick and get Ekblad.

Oilers can't go with that goaltending, need ready bodies and they also get a good pick.

Seems like a great trade for both teams.

 

[Teeder9]

I've been saying this. the INSTANT (regardless of where we fall) things shake down, you offer Edmonton defense prospect, Reimer, and ________ and get their pick the end. McTavish can't enter 2014 with that goaltending duo.

I don't know what you target with Buffalo. I think Buffalo is going to go with Reinhart because they've got a really good defense system with youngsters and they need scoring eventually.

You'd have to offer Buffalo a lot more than the pick is worth, in young players. Edmonton for what you offered, if they were smart, would take it, if they want to actually have a chance at the playoffs

 

[Daisy Jane]

True.

Use Reimer, 1st and more as trading chip to get that #2 pick and get Ekblad.

Oilers can't go with that goaltending, need ready bodies and they also get a good pick.

Seems like a great trade for both teams.

that's the thing. Bryz isn't working, and Reimer >> Dubynk. Reimer works for Edmonton, western boy, used to playing with a run and gun system, and he's a 'flash' goalie (huge save, blah blah). and - young so he can grow with the system.

If McTavish turns that down - he's STUPID.

You'd have to offer Buffalo a lot more than the pick is worth, in young players. Edmonton for what you offered, if they were smart, would take it, if they want to actually have a chance at the playoffs

what I would do in regards to Buffalo -
it's tough. I don't know their system and what they need, but again, I feel that offense is their struggle. But Murray isn't going to give up THEIR pick, but I'd go for one of their other ones.

 

[613Leafer]

Edmontons pick MIGHT be available. With a little internal development, a better goaltender, and an addition to the blueline or C position, they could push for the playoffs next year. But an 18/19 year old probably wont help them with that.

Buffalo? No way. Already heard Murray on the radio, talking about how ideally theyll only be picking high for two years. But that was key, sounded like he highly valued the pick this upcoming draft.

 

[rdawg1234]

I'm down to trade for edmontons pick if we're in the 6-12 range.

We need an Ekblad or Reinhart.

Give them Reimer+our 1st+Prospect(percy or Grannberg, someone with solid upside close to being ready).

 

[Daisy Jane]

Edmontons pick MIGHT be available. With a little internal development, a better goaltender, and an addition to the blueline or C position, they could push for the playoffs next year. But an 18/19 year old probably wont help them with that.

Buffalo? No way. Already heard Murray on the radio, talking about how ideally theyll only be picking high for two years. But that was key, sounded like he highly valued the pick this upcoming draft.

that's why I think we target one of their other picks - not their own [their own will be 'high' but the others they get will be middling]

 

[rdawg1234]

that's why I think we target one of their other picks - not their own [their own will be 'high' but the others they get will be middling]

What other picks?

2nd overall pick means they're getting Reinhart or Ekblad, depends what Buffalo likes more(top d-man or Centre)

I would trade for either one, and if we're in the late lottery(say 6-9) It would be hard for them not to consider Reimer+7th pick+a solid prospect like percy. That fills multiple needs.

 

[613Leafer]

What other picks?

2nd overall pick means they're getting Reinhart or Ekblad, depends what Buffalo likes more(top d-man or Centre)

I would trade for either one, and if we're in the late lottery(say 6-9) It would be hard for them not to consider Reimer+7th pick+a solid prospect like percy. That fills multiple needs.

Might be close. Depends on what they think their main need is. They may want a defenceman (probably Gardiner), centre (Kadri) or goaltender (Reimer) along with our pick. Probably no Kadri, because if theyre upgrading at centre its for a guy who's likely better defensively.

Cost to move up depends a lot on where they are and where we are. Jumping from ~7th to 3rd is much cheaper than ~12th to 1st for example.

 

[Judas Tavares]

Wow, some teams moved up. 4th overall is actually a realistic possibility by Sochi. Unreal.

 

[Pi]

Wow, some teams moved up. 4th overall is actually a realistic possibility by Sochi. Unreal.

It's not shocking to me at all.

Remember all those times when Carlyle said: "We don't critique a win"

If they tried to drill their players about their play during those wins, maybe we have a division spot right now instead of lurking near the basement.

Leafs got complacent very early in the season because their goalies played .940 hockey and we were scoring goals at an unbelievable pace.

It was inevitable that their play would catch up and eventually beat them right down to the basement.

 

[Pi]

Might be close. Depends on what they think their main need is. They may want a defenceman (probably Gardiner), centre (Kadri) or goaltender (Reimer) along with our pick. Probably no Kadri, because if theyre upgrading at centre its for a guy who's likely better defensively.

Cost to move up depends a lot on where they are and where we are. Jumping from ~7th to 3rd is much cheaper than ~12th to 1st for example.

I don't think any team is trading their 1st overall pick unless they get a ransom. Trading your 1st overall pick is just asking for criticism from your fans and the media unless you get an offer you can't turn down.

 

[rdawg1234]

I don't think any team is trading their 1st overall pick unless they get a ransom. Trading your 1st overall pick is just asking for criticism from your fans and the media unless you get an offer you can't turn down.

if we say get the 5th overall pick:

I dont see how you can turn down, 5th pick+Reimer+higher end D-prospect(Percy, Grannberg, Finn).

that 5th overall pick will still be a top prospect, just not quite as good, while at the same time they fill one hole and help to fill another.

If it's Edmonton, they've had 3 1sts, and a nother top 5 pick and have gotten numerous top prospects, but they still have no goalie, and definitely could use more D.

I think they'd be even more inclined to do it if they are 2nd overall and Buff picks Ekblad first. Reinhart would be huge for us, while they already have RNH.

 

[Pi]

if we say get the 5th overall pick:

I dont see how you can turn down, 5th pick+Reimer+higher end D-prospect(Percy, Grannberg, Finn).

that 5th overall pick will still be a top prospect, just not quite as good, while at the same time they fill one hole and help to fill another.

If it's Edmonton, they've had 3 1sts, and a nother top 5 pick and have gotten numerous top prospects, but they still have no goalie, and definitely could use more D.

I think they'd be even more inclined to do it if they are 2nd overall and Buff picks Ekblad first. Reinhart would be huge for us, while they already have RNH.

Oilers are the exception to that rule. I think their fans would be glad if they traded the pick for some immediate help that can also be part of their core.

1st plus Reimer plus is a fantastic deal for the Oilers. Get a good prospect in the top 5, great goalie and more for a top 2 pick.

We likely overpay but we desperately need to find a way to improve our defense.

Ekblad, Rielly will go a long way for the Leafs.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Buffalo has a bucket load of picks, so don't go after their # overall. go for the other ones they have in the 1st round.

But I would really be targeting Edmonton if we're #4-#5th.

 

[rdawg1234]

Could go either way, we look bad now, but literally like 5-6 teams are tied with us in the east

 

[Pi]

Could go either way, we look bad now, but literally like 5-6 teams are tied with us in the east

Big difference between us and them is that their play is trending upwards after a terrible start, our play is trending downwards.

 

[Cor]

I either want the playoffs, or somehow get Ekblad or Reinhart.

 

[ConnorTO]

wonder who the next dance partner is in the playoffs

 

[hotpaws]

if we say get the 5th overall pick:

I dont see how you can turn down, 5th pick+Reimer+higher end D-prospect(Percy, Grannberg, Finn).

that 5th overall pick will still be a top prospect, just not quite as good, while at the same time they fill one hole and help to fill another.

If it's Edmonton, they've had 3 1sts, and a nother top 5 pick and have gotten numerous top prospects, but they still have no goalie, and definitely could use more D.

I think they'd be even more inclined to do it if they are 2nd overall and Buff picks Ekblad first. Reinhart would be huge for us, while they already have RNH.

This trade only happens if they believe they're getting a similar prospect with the 5th pick that they could get with the 2nd .

They already have prospects like Percy-Granberg-Finn so while they'd might make a nice sweetener I don't believe it would tip the scales towards them accepting a deal if they could get an ekblad or reinhart.

This being said I have little faith in Edm's managements team so I guess anything is possible depending on how desperate they are .

 

[Schennanigans]

I could totally see the Oil keep that pick again and just trade Eberle for a top paring potential defensemen.

 

[Daisy Jane]

I either want the playoffs, or somehow get Ekblad or Reinhart.

exactly. we need to get out of this no-man's land.
to be fair - does it have to be EITHER or? are we hooped at 5? (or 4?)

 

[rdawg1234]

exactly. we need to get out of this no-man's land.
to be fair - does it have to be EITHER or? are we hooped at 5? (or 4?)

I dont think this draft is nearly as deep.

If this was last year we could've gotten a Sean Monahan or something in the 5-8 zone, this draft is really top heavy

 

[Cor]

exactly. we need to get out of this no-man's land.
to be fair - does it have to be EITHER or? are we hooped at 5? (or 4?)

If we have the 4th Overall pick in the draft, and say Buffalo, Edmonton, Calgary are 1,2,3.

We should then package our 1st + Reimer to Edmonton for the 2nd Overall pick. We either get a franchise D-man in Ekblad, or a stud center.

Best thing about it, both Ekblad and Reinhart would likely be NHL ready next season... Ekblad 100%