Race to the bottom - Rebuild thread #2.

[The Caveman]

Those teams you mentioned had a massive infusion of assets over a few short years through the draft.

I don't look at is as a case of just adding top 5 picks.

LA: Doughty, Schenn, Voynov over 2 drafts

Anahiem: Lupul, Perry, Getzlaf, Smid, Ryan over 4 drafts or more recently 2010 draft Fowler, Etem, Smith-Pelly in one draft than Lindholm two years later

Chicago: Have had extra picks in almost draft. 17 picks in 04 alone. Picks outside the first like Bickell, Buff, Saad, Shaw, etc. coming in on cheap contracts has given them amazing depth. They've been able to afford stars and recycle high end depth and win 2 cups cause of it.

Pittsburgh: Goligoski, Letang Kennedy over 2 drafts in addition to Crosby, Malkin in those drafts

We need to increase our asset base with a top pick this year but just as importantly if we're finishing out of the playoffs we simply need to be drafting way more frequently to increase our odds of hitting a homerun or to simply have cheaper good depth to allow us to afford more high end talent and not just bringing back the same middle to bottom of the lineup players like Franson, Kulemin, McClement who will soon be well or even over compensated for what they bring.

We are in complete agreement. My point is that tanking and drafting high is not a guarantee of success. They have to know when to cut the chord on certain players in order to get maximum value from them, which includes getting more draft picks. They have to draft better as well. We'll see how well Biggs, Gauthier and the rest of the recent picks pan out.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

We have just signed our captain Phaneuf for the long term and also our best goal scorer Kessel. Neither are any personal favorites but I accept them and think it would be worse to start a rebuild now then going with what we got.

We have a lot of young guys who are developing and who will get better. This team will not get fixed in a few trades but it will take some time and a lot of patience.


Oh fock it. Caps just scored. Trade em all.

 

[JackJ]

Here comes 9th.

 

[Judas Tavares]

Actually kinda scares me how close to 6th overall we are now.

 

[Hero]

3 pts out of bottom 7.

Wow how things change fast.

 

[FlareKnight]

3 pts out of bottom 7.

Wow how things change fast.

Well the East is pretty bad. The last few playoff spots aren't far off from the bottom.

I really wonder where we'll be by the end of this month.

 

[Pi]

Well the East is pretty bad. The last few playoff spots aren't far off from the bottom.

I really wonder where we'll be by the end of this month.

Realistically only the Sabres and the Islanders and the Panthers will be behind us. I expect all the other Eastern teams to be ahead of us.

So top 7 is a very likely possibility.

 

[The Thin White Duke]

5 monkeys are in a room with a banana. The banana is rigged so that if a monkey touches it, all 5 monkeys get shocked. First monkey tries to touch it, they all get shocked, and the other 4 beat him up for it. One of the monkeys gets replaced with a new one. He doesn't know the rules and naturally goes for the banana, but the other 4 stop him. He doesn't know what happens when you touch the banana, but he knows not to do it. Replace all the monkeys slowly one by one, and you'll have a group of monkeys where none of them know why touching the banana is bad, none of them have ever been shocked, but they know not to do it. Even if the banana stopped being rigged after the first time, they still won't touch it and none of them know why exactly.

This is our locker room. Go ahead and tell me that Kulemin is the only guy left from the Muskoka 5 days. Go ahead and tell me that this is Burke/Nonis's team. Blue and White disease still lingers, even though none of the guys on the team were part of the Muskoka 5 era. This organization needs a thorough purge and rebuild.

 

[p.l.f.]

Tell me we can draft a top centre iwith a top 6 pick
I think it's fair to say that we would have the worst record in the league if it weren't for the goaltending

 

[Giuseppe Sallo]

^^ Leon Draistaitl can play C/LW or Nylander.

 

[hockeystick89]

5 monkeys are in a room with a banana. The banana is rigged so that if a monkey touches it, all 5 monkeys get shocked. First monkey tries to touch it, they all get shocked, and the other 4 beat him up for it. One of the monkeys gets replaced with a new one. He doesn't know the rules and naturally goes for the banana, but the other 4 stop him. He doesn't know what happens when you touch the banana, but he knows not to do it. Replace all the monkeys slowly one by one, and you'll have a group of monkeys where none of them know why touching the banana is bad, none of them have ever been shocked, but they know not to do it. Even if the banana stopped being rigged after the first time, they still won't touch it and none of them know why exactly.

This is our locker room. Go ahead and tell me that Kulemin is the only guy left from the Muskoka 5 days. Go ahead and tell me that this is Burke/Nonis's team. Blue and White disease still lingers, even though none of the guys on the team were part of the Muskoka 5 era. This organization needs a thorough purge and rebuild.

Poetic.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

I really want a top 2 pick this year but I don't know if we can compete with the likes of dynasty garbage teams like the Oilers and Islanders. Forget about last place, Buffalo has that on lockdown.

 

[Jay99999*]

5 monkeys are in a room with a banana. The banana is rigged so that if a monkey touches it, all 5 monkeys get shocked. First monkey tries to touch it, they all get shocked, and the other 4 beat him up for it. One of the monkeys gets replaced with a new one. He doesn't know the rules and naturally goes for the banana, but the other 4 stop him. He doesn't know what happens when you touch the banana, but he knows not to do it. Replace all the monkeys slowly one by one, and you'll have a group of monkeys where none of them know why touching the banana is bad, none of them have ever been shocked, but they know not to do it. Even if the banana stopped being rigged after the first time, they still won't touch it and none of them know why exactly.

This is our locker room. Go ahead and tell me that Kulemin is the only guy left from the Muskoka 5 days. Go ahead and tell me that this is Burke/Nonis's team. Blue and White disease still lingers, even though none of the guys on the team were part of the Muskoka 5 era. This organization needs a thorough purge and rebuild.

um,,,, I have a craving for a banana split now.

 

[Faltorvo]

3 pts out of bottom 7.

Wow how things change fast.

"Change fast"?

What the hell,

have you not been paying attention over the last 30 odd games?

 

[Faltorvo]

We are in complete agreement. My point is that tanking and drafting high is not a guarantee of success. They have to know when to cut the chord on certain players in order to get maximum value from them, which includes getting more draft picks. They have to draft better as well. We'll see how well Biggs, Gauthier and the rest of the recent picks pan out.

There is no guarantee of success in any route one takes, just higher % chance of success.

 

[BlueBaron]

Ya lets off-load Kadri. That worked with Steen too right?
Some people have no patience.

Have to agree. The same people who are pleading for a rebuild still havent seen how the last one went. Teams trend upward, sometimes they take a step back before they can move forward. Why everyone thinks the Leafs would be immune to growing pains is beyond me.

When Kadri, Rielly, Percy, Biggs, Gauthier and Finn are all deemed failures then you can moan. Until those guys are all nhl regulars/failures saying our rebuild failed is laughable.

If you guys do not have the patience to see this one through what makes you think another one will be better ?

 

[hullsy47]

3 pts out of bottom 7.

Wow how things change fast.

21% chance of making the playoffs ,,,,,,plus 3 under acheiving teams are starting to play better ......lets face it .....even if bolland comes back he/ll need 10 games to get caught up to pace .....if hes our savoir hes gonna get 9 million next year ......sh@t show again

 

[Judas Tavares]

"Change fast"?

What the hell,

have you not been paying attention over the last 30 odd games?

I think he meant more, even though we were playing like crap, it seemed like even a week ago, we were so far from the bottom end teams. All the sudden we aren't. Our patheticness has been one thing, but of late teams like Carolina, Ottawa and Columbus have been on some mini runs which have sped up the process.

I originally thought we couldn't fall past basically where we are now. But now, it looks like we can touch top 5. There is no dropping below Buffalo, Edmonton and Calgary. If we do, kudos to us for being so bad lol! I then have reservations about the Islanders and Panthers, they are experts at suckage. That puts us at 6. We might be jockeying with Winnipeg and Columbus (who again have some suckage experience) for that familiar #7 pick. I'm no draft expert, especially this year the info seems so thin, but there are 7 guys this year I like. Specifically 5, but I can extend to 7.

 

[Daisy Jane]

if by March 5th we're out of the playoff spot (i don't care if it's one point). trade everyone you can get get picks for this and next year.

going off by Capgeek

UFAS:
Bolland <<---- keep
McClement <<---- keep
Raymond <<----trade
Smith <<----unsure.
Fraser <<---- trade

[wait. WHY is it that almost every single player on this team has a ntc? limited or not, the heck? is this a new thing? hey, sign here, oh, and we'll give you a ntc]

anyway:

If people are asking for Dion & Kessel - even though I've stated it looks really shady to have people sign contracts and then BOOM trade them, if the offer is really, really good [like massive picks good] then I'd do it. I even said during draft weekend last year, I would have traded Kessel for a MASSIVE amount of picks (I don't even care about the prospects right now) before that NTC kicked in (and Kessel's list is 8 teams. Reports say that Dions is around 10-15 teams).

RFAs
D'Amigo <<---stay
Ashton <<--stay
Gardiner <<---stay
Reimer <<---trade {I'd just get a backup or sign someone from europe}
Franson <<---trade, trade all day long.


"core players"
I think I'd still keep Lupul
I'd seriously consider trading Kadri (for a bouquet of picks).
rielly obviously stays


then in the summer. i'd go after some other uFAs to help insulate the core (ie: let them play their 30 or whatever minutes, learn, fail, learn again), wherever we fall in 2015 - again draft well, sign good UFAs

make a push for 16, and see what we do when we turn 100. [basically the goal for the 100th is to make the playoffs and push for minimum third round].

even if the picks are a like 10 2nd rounds then pick tonnes of 2nd round picks. I honestly feel that's the best thing. we can't afford to be in No Man's Land.

 

[thewave]

Sell sell sell take on aging contracts if they come with good picks! Save the team get old now so we can get a group that's young together for the future.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Sell sell sell take on aging contracts if they come with good picks! Save the team get old now so we can get a group that's young together for the future.

get old now?
i don't understand.

 

[thewave]

get old now?
i don't understand.

Because if you get rid of the Muskoka 5 2.0 and get older players who will retire in 5 or less PLUS good picks and prospects ( I am talking vets who are good but you know getting old salary dumps but not fully) and keep our JVR Kadri Holland Rielly etc and grow up the farm with picks and prospect it will time them with the new kids we develop. Old out new come in.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Because if you get rid of the Muskoka 5 2.0 and get older players who will retire in 5 or less PLUS good picks and prospects ( I am talking vets who are good but you know getting old salary dumps but not fully) and keep our JVR Kadri Holland Rielly etc and grow up the farm with picks and prospect it will time them with the new kids we develop. Old out new come in.

oooooooooooooooh.


I'm with you, now.
pretty much be a cap team of passible old guys to insulate our core guys and let them develop properly. I can totally do that.

 

[tmlfan98]

This organization needs a thorough purge and rebuild.

We actually don't need a full rebuild.

Just think about it: We tank the rest of the season to try and get a top 2 pick and hopefully get Ekblad.

Our d-pairings for next year would look like this:

Gunnarsson-Phaneuf
Rielly-Ekblad
Fraser-Franson
Gleason

(Note: Gardiner gets traded and Ranger walks)

Ekblad would immediately fill our biggest need which is a defensively oriented top 4 RHD and when he reaches his potential could actually turn out to be better than Phaneuf.

Boom, a playoff team once again!

(Another note: this scenario takes place in a universe where Carlyle gets fired cuz even with Ekblad, Carlyle's systems would continue to handicap us)

 

[Pi]

Top 2 pick isn't easy with the Sabres and the Oilers.

The Leafs need to do whatever it takes to trade for a top 2 pick. Offer Gardiner, plus 1st if needed to get it done.

Ekblad > Reinhart for the Leafs.

Ekblad, Rielly will go a long way in reducing Phaneuf's role on this team so he doesn't feel burdened.