Prospect Info: Quinton Byfield (2nd Overall 2020 Draft) Discussion part II

[Herby]

6'4 (based on eliteprospects.com) and taller centers drafted top 5 since 1997; I'll leave out the "top flight" part and let you decide yourself:
Joe Thornton, 1st overall, 1997
Vincent Lecavalier, 1st overall, 1998
Eric Staal, 1st overall, 2003
Evgeni Malkin, 2nd overall, 2004
Jordan Staal, 2nd overall, 2006

This also ignores some that just missed the cut by being 6'3 or shorter, like Auston Matthews, Aleksander Barkov. As well as players who were taken out of the top 5, like Anze Kopitar and Tage Thompson.

So, to the point of project players, very rarely get taken top 5. But there are plenty of centers who are pretty big who have had illustrious careers.

So it seems that the tall players taken high in the draft are almost always immediate plug and play type guys and the long development thing is more geared towards players taken later in the draft? Thornton was terrible as an 18 year old, but like Hughes he was given the NHL games (although Boston was a playoff team), by year 2 he was trending significantly upward and by the time he was in his D3 where QB is now he led the Bruins in goals and assists.

This is why I don’t buy into the belief that the Kings had year 4 or later as when QB was going to live up to the draft capital used on him. Teams don’t willingly draft long term projects that high in the draft because you should expect instant results from picks that high because you are picking the best of the best from that year.

I think that the Kings very likely expected that by now, the end of year 3 that QB would be knocking on the door to the 1C spot and next season he would probably be locked into that role. That seems a reasonable expectation for a #2 OA pick.

Saying he was a longer term project than Stutzle probably meant it was a Thornton/Samsonov situation and TS would be better in year 1, but by the end of year 3 it was much closer if not QB being outright better.

 

[Surf Nutz]

Do you seriously think what’s happened Kempe is normal? There’s no other Kings prospect who’s done that in recent history. Why do you use Kempe as an example rather than the exception that he is? Would you invest money in a pattern or a volatile stock? Kempes like GameStop it soared for the lulz.

Regardless I’m not gonna argue at this point because I think we’re fundamentally so far apart that it’s pointless.

As soon as Kempe matured became trustworthy for TMac, he was out on the top line and immediately broke out.
The writing was on the wall however if you followed his play on team Sweden when he played with other high level players. I posted as much when the Choir here used to sing
"Oh come you all faithful
and trade thee Kempe to Bethlehem"
Seems like they are working on another non-hit tha bombs, about Byfield today.

Byfield is a coming at a slow but steady trot with a few games of eating hay in between.
Two more seasons and he will be neck and neck with the thoroughbreds

 

[Sol]

As soon as Kempe matured became trustworthy for TMac, he was out on the top line and immediately broke out.
The writing was on the wall however if you followed his play on team Sweden when he played with other high level players. I posted as much when the Choir here used to sing
"Oh come you all faithful
and trade thee Kempe to Bethlehem"
Seems like they are working on another non-hit tha bombs, about Byfield today.

Byfield is a coming at a slow but steady trot with a few games of eating hay in between.
Two more seasons and he will be neck and neck with the thoroughbreds

Yeah just took him about 6 years. Love how Kings fans think that’s normal. Let me guess his prime is in is mid 30’s.

 

[Surf Nutz]

As soon as Kempe matured became trustworthy for TMac, he was out on the top line and immediately broke out.
The writing was on the wall however if you followed his play on team Sweden when he played with other high level players. I posted as much when the Choir here used to sing
"Oh come you all faithful
and trade thee Kempe to Bethlehem"
Seems like they are working on another non-hit tha bombs, about Byfield today.

Byfield is a coming at a slow but steady trot with a few games of eating hay in between.
Two more seasons and he will be neck and neck with the thoroughbreds.

Yeah just took him about 6 years. Love how Kings fans think that’s normal. Let me guess his prime is in is mid 30’s.

Its not ideal but better to stick with your picks then trade them away for peanuts and see them breakthrough on another team and help them win the cup.
Something the Kings have done more than once.
When your shit gets called and you have nothing or not much, some of you guys resort to insults ,poor attempts at humor and your tv show / movie mentality personality disorder.
This ain't some obscure flick or "The Office" either.
Defintley a bit of a Creepshow though, lol.

 

[Surf Nutz]

So it seems that the tall players taken high in the draft are almost always immediate plug and play type guys and the long development thing is more geared towards players taken later in the draft? Thornton was terrible as an 18 year old, but like Hughes he was given the NHL games (although Boston was a playoff team), by year 2 he was trending significantly upward and by the time he was in his D3 where QB is now he led the Bruins in goals and assists.

This is why I don’t buy into the belief that the Kings had year 4 or later as when QB was going to live up to the draft capital used on him. Teams don’t willingly draft long term projects that high in the draft because you should expect instant results from picks that high because you are picking the best of the best from that year.

I think that the Kings very likely expected that by now, the end of year 3 that QB would be knocking on the door to the 1C spot and next season he would probably be locked into that role. That seems a reasonable expectation for a #2 OA pick.

Saying he was a longer term project than Stutzle probably meant it was a Thornton/Samsonov situation and TS would be better in year 1, but by the end of year 3 it was much closer if not QB being outright better.

Your thinking is outdated on this.
You gave one example after 2006.
Technology , video, refined development techniques have made coming into the league and being something solid harder and harder.
And it mostly only happens with guys on poor to middling teams because there is not room for development on a good roster.
It influences how you draft, your expectations , how you build a team.
Blake gets it but some of you guys have not stayed up with these trends.
And that is why you are so frustrated.

 

[King'sPawn]

That’s my point. Those players dont Really exist unless they’re anomalies. None of them play like Byfield either or had. Like that list alone shows how much of a unicorn they are because most of the times it’s not a unicorn it’s just a horse that got a waffle cone stuck to its head.

Eh, I mean only 121 of the 895 players who have skated an NHL game this year is 6'4 or taller. That's just 13.5% of the league.

And if you rank a "top flight" player as top 50 in point scoring, you're only looking at 5% of the league in general.

It's also possible to have Byfield become a winger, which widens the pool of very good wingers 6'4 or taller (like Brady Tkachuk, Mikko Rantanen, Alex Tuch, etc).

I know I'm not going to change your mind, but there are plenty of talented forwards taken in the first round, who are 6'4 or taller, and they have a variety of trajectories.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

I revived this thread a few weeks ago and was just after a game QB was pretty flat and ineffective...I was amidst of like an $8000 biz loss week and other shtt (that was worse than that, no less) and the only thing I had to look forward was watching Kings hockey....when I saw Stutzle 27, 28 goals (or whatever) on the crawling ticker thing at the bottom on Bally's annoying addition...Mercer 15,16,17....Cozens 18,19...and still waiting for 'BYFIELD 3', the only thing I could enjoy - Kings hockey, as not a joy and I went to the keyboard. I should not have and just went to bed,. or on with my rosy day. Don't recall the time. I have not followed all the subsequent posts. I know it's not cool to post and vanish...but having one of the worst times of my life. Trying to save my biz and life, honestly. Heading to bankruptcy, without some real turnaround.

So, I've cooled off and still have not been paid since December 30...and have another IRS letter I have not opened....not ready to face whatever they feel they need from myself and biz...in which they let gov funded competitors trounce on me and thrive......but,

QB was going to take time. He's still only 20 and many players are not hitting their stride and making a real impact until 23 or 24. It's not an excuse, it's more the norm, than players making meaningful impacts at 20.
You can say he is making an impact now. He's succeeding as LW1 on the #2 team in the Western Conference.
He's working well with Kopitar and Kempe. Making deft passes to Kopi, 2 or 3 times a game. He's been skating well, working the boards well, winning some battles. better puck protection, not handling the puck like a grenade... And finally using his size for more than reach....hitting Hedman...and someone last game, at the end of his shift. Couldn't see whom. Hard hit. He's been markedly better than anyone on line 1. More than Iafallo could ever do in 4+ years. Been a better addition than Fiala was. He's making it happen. He's been good in all 3 zones. Better postioning.

Consider he lost 2+ months with an ankle break and more than a month with some ailment this late Fall.
He needs weight and strength. He lost a ton. That ailment was probably just as detrimental as the ankle break.
He needs muscle and bulk, to reach the next level. He's getting there. A year from now, he's going to probably be crushing players a few times a game and imposing himself. He nay never reach 30 goals, but I think he's going to score 20+. He had 9 in 16 AHL games. Why? Because Sturm was pushing him some and that's when QB said "I'm allowing myself to do what I can do again" (something like that) It's too bad he has a psyche that is not alpha or has the killer instinct. It's innate with many, but to an extent, can become part of your psyche. Kind of like how Iafallo said in the 21-22 offseason "we have to get leads and then step on their throats" WTF? (still waiting for AI to live that)
The last thing I expected from AI. But, becoming a warrior can become a desired and learned thing. QB needs some of that and hope this becomes instilled in him. He may have to be pushed. He doesn't have a work ethic issue. He's going to make it. He will score goals. Geez, Kopi had 16 one year. He was lax about it and now he's pushing himself.

Think of where Quinton was last playoffs. Made zero impact and seemed to lack confidence and any kind of game and got scratched. He's honestly come a long way and can be a difference maker at....age 20.

 

[Herby]

Your thinking is outdated on this.
You gave one example after 2006.
Technology , video, refined development techniques have made coming into the league and being something solid harder and harder.
And it mostly only happens with guys on poor to middling teams because there is not room for development on a good roster.
It influence how you draft, your expectations , how you build a team.
Blake gets it but some of you guys have not stayed up with these trends.
And that is why you are so frustrated.

What are you talking about? I am totally confused, KP was the one who provided the players that size taken in the top 5, not me.

If you are talking about Hughes and other players playing in the NHL and not being subjected to unnecessary AHL time you are just factually off yet again.

Using your 2006 time. Since the 2006 here are all the players taken in the top 3

Erik Johnson (1 AHL Game) *Rehab
Jordan Staal (0 AHL Games)
Jonathan Toews (0 AHL Games)

Patrick Kane (0 AHL Games)
JVR (7 AHL Games) *Following college sophomore season
Kyle Turris (86 AHL Games)

Steve Stamkos (0 AHL Games)
Drew Doughty (0 AHL Games)
Zach Bogosian (5 AHL Games)

John Tavares (0 AHL Games)
Victor Hedman (0 AHL Games)
Matt Duchene (0 AHL Games)

Taylor Hall (0 AHL Games)
Tyler Seguin (0 AHL Games)
Erik Gubranson (2 AHL Games)

RNH - (18 AHL Games)
Gabriel Landeskog (0 AHL Games)
Jonathan Huberdeau (0 AHL Games)

Nail Yakupov (0 AHL Games)
Ryan Murray (1 AHL Game) *rehab
Alex Galchenyuk (0 AHL Games)

Nathan MacKinnon (0 AHL Games)
Sasha Barkov (0 AHL Games)
Jonathan Drouin (19 AHL Games)

Aaron Ekblad (0 AHL Games)
Sam Reinhart (3 AHL Games)
Leon Draistaitl (6 AHL Games)

Connor McDavid (0 AHL Games)
Jack Eichel (0 AHL Games)
Dylan Strome (50 AHL Games)

Auston Matthews (0 AHL Games)
Patrick Laine (0 AHL Games)
PLD (0 AHL Games)

Nico Hischier (0 AHL Games)
Nolan Patrick (0 AHL Games)
Miro Heiskanen (0 AHL Games)

Rasmus Dahlin (0 AHL Games)
Andrei Svechnikov (0 AHL Games)
Kesperi Katkaniemi (13 AHL Games)

Jack Hughes (0 AHL Games)
Kappo Kakko (0 AHL Games)
Kirby Dach (3 AHL Games)

Alexis Lafferiere (0 AHL Games)
Quinton Byfield (59 AHL Games)
Tim Stutzle (0 AHL Games)

Owen Power (0 AHL Games)
Matty Beniers (0 AHL Games)
Mason MacTavish (3 AHL Games)

Juraj Slafkovsky (0 AHL Games)
Simon Nemec (52 AHL Games)
Logan Cooley (0 AHL Games)

I mean, you can say that Blake is smarter than everyone else and is playing chess while the rest are playing checkers, but most teams are not handling a #2 overall pick the way the Kings handled QB, especially as a forward. The Kings very clearly have an organizational philosophy that values aggressive AHL usage for even the most highly regarded prospects, regardless of age. That is not a philosophy shared by many other teams, right or wrong. Look at the Kings highest picks in recent memory. Based on recent examples its very likely that faced with the exact same situation most NHL teams would have had QB playing alongside Jeff Carter in 20/21 and had Turcotte spend another year in college, the Kings instead had both players in the AHL. That is an example of a very aggressive AHL usage, do you believe it was optimal for either players development vs more traditional paths?

And plenty of players enter the NHL immediately after being drafted who are taken with a top 2 pick. That has been consistent for years now.

 

[Surf Nutz]

I revived this thread a few weeks ago and was just after a game QB was pretty flat and ineffective...I was amidst of like an $8000 biz loss week and other shtt (that was worse than that, no less) and the only thing I had to look forward was watching Kings hockey....when I saw Stutzle 27, 28 goals (or whatever) on the crawling ticker thing at the bottom on Bally's annoying addition...Mercer 15,16,17....Cozens 18,19...and still waiting for 'BYFIELD 3', the only thing I could enjoy - Kings hockey, as not a joy and I went to the keyboard. I should not have and just went to bed,. or on with my rosy day. Don't recall the time. I have not followed all the subsequent posts.

So, I've cooled off and still have not been paid since December 30...and have another IRS letter I have not opened....not ready to face whatever they feel they need from myself and biz...in which they let gov funded competitors trounce on me and thrive......but,

QB was going to take time. He's still only 20 and many players are not hitting their stride and making a real impact until 23 or 24. It's not an excuse, it's more the norm, than players making meaningful impacts at 20.
You can say he is making an impact now. He's succeeding as LW1 on the #2 team in the Western Conference.
He's working well with Kopitar and Kempe. Making deft passes to Kopi, 2 or 3 times a game. He's been skating well, working the boards well, winning some battles. better puck protection, not handling the puck like a grenade... And finally using his size for more than reach....hitting Hedman...and someone last game, at the end of his shift. Couldn't see whom. Hard hit. He's been markedly better than anyone on line 1. More than Iafallo could ever do in 4+tough years.

Good luck, its tough times for many. Hang in there!

 

[Surf Nutz]

What are you talking about? I am totally confused, KP was the one who provided the players that size taken in the top 5, not me.

If you are talking about Hughes and other players playing in the NHL and not being subjected to unnecessary AHL time you are just factually off yet again.

Using your 2006 time. Since the 2006 here are all the players taken in the top 3

Erik Johnson (1 AHL Game) *Rehab
Jordan Staal (0 AHL Games)
Jonathan Toews (0 AHL Games)

Patrick Kane (0 AHL Games)
JVR (7 AHL Games) *Following college sophomore season
Kyle Turris (86 AHL Games)

Steve Stamkos (0 AHL Games)
Drew Doughty (0 AHL Games)
Zach Bogosian (5 AHL Games)

John Tavares (0 AHL Games)
Victor Hedman (0 AHL Games)
Matt Duchene (0 AHL Games)

Taylor Hall (0 AHL Games)
Tyler Seguin (0 AHL Games)
Erik Gubranson (2 AHL Games)

RNH - (18 AHL Games)
Gabriel Landeskog (0 AHL Games)
Jonathan Huberdeau (0 AHL Games)

Nail Yakupov (0 AHL Games)
Ryan Murray (1 AHL Game) *rehab
Alex Galchenyuk (0 AHL Games)

Nathan MacKinnon (0 AHL Games)
Sasha Barkov (0 AHL Games)
Jonathan Drouin (19 AHL Games)

Aaron Ekblad (0 AHL Games)
Sam Reinhart (3 AHL Games)
Leon Draistaitl (6 AHL Games)

Connor McDavid (0 AHL Games)
Jack Eichel (0 AHL Games)
Dylan Strome (50 AHL Games)

Auston Matthews (0 AHL Games)
Patrick Laine (0 AHL Games)
PLD (0 AHL Games)

Nico Hischier (0 AHL Games)
Nolan Patrick (0 AHL Games)
Miro Heiskanen (0 AHL Games)

Rasmus Dahlin (0 AHL Games)
Andrei Svechnikov (0 AHL Games)
Kesperi Katkaniemi (13 AHL Games)

Jack Hughes (0 AHL Games)
Kappo Kakko (0 AHL Games)
Kirby Dach (3 AHL Games)

Alexis Lafferiere (0 AHL Games)
Quinton Byfield (59 AHL Games)
Tim Stutzle (0 AHL Games)

Owen Power (0 AHL Games)
Matty Beniers (0 AHL Games)
Mason MacTavish (3 AHL Games)

Juraj Slafkovsky (0 AHL Games)
Simon Nemec (52 AHL Games)
Logan Cooley (0 AHL Games)

I mean, you can say that Blake is smarter than everyone else and is playing chess while the rest are playing checkers, but most teams are not handling a #2 overall pick the way the Kings handled QB, especially as a forward. The Kings very clearly have an organizational philosophy that values aggressive AHL usage for even the most highly regarded prospects, regardless of age. That is not a philosophy shared by many other teams, right or wrong.

And plenty of players enter the NHL immediately after being drafted who are taken with a top 2 pick. That has been consistent for years now.

Again your examples here are dated , its 2023, or they are almost uber elite, or they have yet to do much in the NHL, or became nothing more than role players.
Blake actually blew it when he didn't keep QB in the AHL after his broken bone early on, last season.
Your thoughts on most young players and your M.O. are outdated and becoming further outdated every year.
ANd they are not the way the Kings or Blake operate.
Most especially the gatekeeper to the Kings roster, TMac.
We will have to agree to disagree.

 

[Herby]

Again your examples here are dated , its 2023, or they are almost uber elite, or they have yet to do much in the NHL.

I literally listed every single similarly drafted player taken through the 2022 draft!!!

I would list the 2023 draft but it hasn't happened yet. So how can a list be any more updated than the most recent draft?

Logan Cooley isn't going to play any AHL games, neither are Bedard or Fantilli. Nothing has changed with how most teams use their AHL affiliate for elite prospects.

 

[MrGuyPerson]

Howdy Kings fans. It has been a long time. I wanted to hop into the discussion because since the time we shared covid fueled couch sitting over analysis of prospects in the 2020 draft, I have continued to follow the kings relatively frequently.

First I would like to say that while Tim Stutzle has really prospered this season, it is tough to say whether he would have reached the same heights as a King, which is actually contrary to my hard stance in our pre-draft discussions. Sure, it is possible, but the Senators have also put a lot of effort into his development and there is no way to be certain it would have worked the same in a different organization. He had leash in Ottawa. At times it was short and at times it was long. Also when they initially changed his position to center, they delegated a portion of the position's responsibility(faceoffs) to another player which is something I just have not seen prior. For all DJ Smiths short comings, one thing no one can dispute is he has done exceptionally well at making sure this kid panned out.

Second, Byfield has really looked quite good since they started playing him more. Sometimes developing kids have bad games and sometimes they make mistakes(every now then they make a lot of them). Stutzle has also had a bunch of bad games and made possibly too many mistakes to count since entering the league. It is all part of the process. From what I have seen, Byfield will be a fantastic consistent player. It is just a matter of when he becomes one. Waiting sucks, but it is not like you can wave a wand and go "boom magic".

Whether the finished product is as good, better, or not quite as good as Stutzle is impossible to know. All you can know is that with the position change and the overall increase in playing time the kings are putting some effort into to developing him and he has shown a lot of growth as a player this season.

Overall, the only player I truly feel bad for is Laf. He was not as NHL ready as everyone thought. He did require development. Unfortunately for him, The Rangers have an army of mature talent blocking any passage he may have had to becoming a difference maker. It is very hard to envision a world where that kid is ever able to really "earn the right" to be a difference maker in that organization. I hope he can still salvage what is left of his potential at an organization that is willing to develop him.

I'd like to know why the Stutzle/QB argument only revolves around the Kings decision of who they picked at #2....why does nobody bring up the fact that Stutzle should have been picked by NYR at #1??

I saw this earlier and I just wanted to say that some people do bring it up, but ultimately picking anyone, but Laf at 1 was kind of career suicide. So it is tough to fault the Rangers even in hindsight.

For the record, as I have been following the sens since the 2020 draft, I have noticed some sens fans being rude about Byfield. It is uncalled for. My guess is that ultimately they are obnoxious about Stu's success because they are likely starring down the barrel of another season of missed playoffs despite actually being in the hunt before this last road trip.

Side note, If it means anything at all, based on the senators draft history they absolutely would have taken Byfield over stutzle at the draft also. Some Sens fans have claimed they know people affiliated with the sens and they were told "they had Stu at 2". I do not buy that for 1 single second

 

[Surf Nutz]

I literally listed every single similarly drafted player taken through the 2022 draft!!!

I would list the 2023 draft but it hasn't happened yet.

It goes back too far, especially after schmovid, the world has cahnged and there was an interruption especially for developing players.
Thats why none of the recent ones that are not uber elite, have done much yet.
They needed some combination of more AHL time or being brought into a winning locker room.
Both are important and can be interchanged a bit.
I respect your opinion but mine is much different.

 

[Herby]

It goes back too far, especially after schmovid, the world has cahnged and there was an interruption especially for developing players.
Thats why none of the recent ones that are not uber elite, have done much yet.
They needed some combination of more AHL time or being brought into a winning locker room.
Both are important and can be interchanged a bit.
I respect your opinion but mine is much different.

So you think the solution is more AHL time for Kings prospects?

You might wake up to a PM from Blake offering you a job.

And Stutzle and Beniers are both post Covid players who are doing fine. The 2021 draft has sent plenty of players to the NHL without any AHL time. The 2022 draft was just a weaker one overall. You will see with this years draft that Bedard and Fantilli will jump right into the NHL without AHL time and be excellent players, Cooley from 2022 as well.

 

[Surf Nutz]

Howdy Kings fans. It has been a long time. I wanted to hop into the discussion because since the time we shared covid fueled couch sitting over analysis of prospects in the 2020 draft, I have continued to follow the kings relatively frequently.

First I would like to say that while Tim Stutzle has really prospered this season, it is tough to say whether he would have reached the same heights as a King, which is actually contrary to my hard stance in our pre-draft discussions. Sure, it is possible, but the Senators have also put a lot of effort into his development and there is no way to be certain it would have worked the same in a different organization. He had leash in Ottawa. At times it was short and at times it was long. Also when they initially changed his position to center, they delegated a portion of the position's responsibility(faceoffs) to another player which is something I just have not seen prior. For all DJ Smiths short comings, one thing no one can dispute is he has done exceptionally well at making sure this kid panned out.

Second, Byfield has really looked quite good since they started playing him more. Sometimes developing kids have bad games and sometimes they make mistakes(every now then they make a lot of them). Stutzle has also had a bunch of bad games and made possibly too many mistakes to count since entering the league. It is all part of the process. From what I have seen, Byfield will be a fantastic consistent player. It is just a matter of when he becomes one. Waiting sucks, but it is not like you can wave a wand and go "boom magic".

Whether the finished product is as good, better, or not quite as good as Stutzle is impossible to know. All you can know is that with the position change and the overall increase in playing time the kings are putting some effort into to developing him and he has shown a lot of growth as a player this season.

Overall, the only player I truly feel bad for is Laf. He was not as NHL ready as everyone thought. He did require development. Unfortunately for him, The Rangers have an army of mature talent blocking any passage he may have had to becoming a difference maker. It is very hard to envision a world where that kid is ever able to really "earn the right" to be a difference maker in that organization. I hope he can still salvage what is left of his potential at an organization that is willing to develop him.


I saw this earlier and I just wanted to say that some people do bring it up, but ultimately picking anyone, but Laf at 1 was kind of career suicide. So it is tough to fault the Rangers even in hindsight.

For the record, as I have been following the sens since the 2020 draft, I have noticed some sens fans being rude about Byfield. It is uncalled for. My guess is that ultimately they are obnoxious about Stu's success because they are likely starring down the barrel of another season of missed playoffs despite actually being in the hunt before this last road trip.

Side note, If it means anything at all, based on the senators draft history they absolutely would have taken Byfield over stutzle at the draft also. Some Sens fans have claimed they know people affiliated with the sens and they were told "they had Stu at 2". I do not buy that for 1 single second

With TMac as the gatekeeper Stutzle would have gone to Ontario, developed better NHL fundamentals and understanding , make much less mistakes and have much lower offensive stats. He would have been resigned to a much cheaper bridge deal and been playing in place of Byfield. Which might not be a good thing with our number one line being our most consistent propellant recently.
The fresh perspective is much appreciated these guys are in a bunker, waging a war from their positions

 

[Surf Nutz]

So you think the solution is more AHL time for Kings prospects?

You might wake up to a PM from Blake offering you a job.

And Stutzle and Beniers are both post Covid players who are doing fine. The 2021 draft has sent plenty of players to the NHL without any AHL time. The 2022 draft was just a weaker one overall. You will see with this years draft that Bedard and Fantilli will jump right into the NHL without AHL time and be excellent players, Cooley from 2022 as well.

Yes that is the trend we are seeing and will continue to see more of. Yes Berniers and Stutzle are almost uber elite and play on much worse rosters with room for them. Seattle has really come on lately and Bernier along with them. So I will give your outdated model credit for that one exception but the team and player development had to coincide perfectly

 

[Surf Nutz]

Yes that is the trend we are seeing and will continue to see more of. Yes Berniers and Stutzle are almost uber elite and play on much worse rosters with room for them. Seattle has really come on lately and Bernier along with them. So I will give your outdated model credit for that one exception but the team and player development had to coincide perfectly

Also Byfield is not uber elite in the sense of being ready for the NHL soon, neither was Vilardi, Neither was Kempe and neither was Turcotte.
If you are picking a project and acknowledging it the AHl is a must. If you are getting Bedard and Fantelli or Cooley can be that good, then they are rare birds that may not benefit from the AHL. Or they may end up with concussions or other injuries as they adjust to jumping up to the best league in the world.

 

[AbsentMojo]

The disconnect w Byfield as others have pointed out, is that he shoudve been playing on lottery level team getting his reps in the 1st or 2nd line like the German in Ottawa... but the org went win now and QB didnt get a good development path trying to find a spot on a win now team. Breaking his ankle and covid also set him back some. So as Ive said before - he gets some leeway.. mid next season for me. I just focus on Vilardi he's a lot of fun to watch.

 

[Statto]

With TMac as the gatekeeper Stutzle would have gone to Ontario, developed better NHL fundamentals and understanding , make much less mistakes and have much lower offensive stats. He would have been resigned to a much cheaper bridge deal and been playing in place of Byfield. Which might not be a good thing with our number one line being our most consistent propellant recently.
The fresh perspective is much appreciated these guys are in a bunker, waging a war from their positions

Signing a cheaper contract is never a mitigation for slowing a player’s development arch and potentially lowering their ceiling. If you can turn them into an 8 million player in year 2 you do it because you can then clear out some vets and you have them as an elite player for longer before they hit UFA.

 

[Surf Nutz]

Signing a cheaper contract is never a mitigation for slowing a player’s development arch and potentially lowering their ceiling. If you can turn them into an 8 million player in year 2 you do it because you can then clear out some vets and you have them as an elite player for longer before they hit UFA.

Not true the goal is to have THE TEAM win the cup not develop players.
The AHL and other resources are for development.

 

[Surf Nutz]

Player develop in the NHL. The OHL will minimally develop his defensive game because its the OHL, he’s learn far more in the NHL and it’s perfectly reasonable to think his game will have improved more than Walkers has over the course of the season. He was playing better than Walker (and Durzi) at the time of his last NHL game. He will learn far more about Leadership in the NHL also.

Your comment wasn’t his worst defensive stretch for him, it was after he was a -1 in a single game. He’s deployed primarily as an offensive monster in the OHL because that’s what his coach needs him to be. I’m sure his defence will have improved simply by getting ice time. However, the narrative that it’s a league that is going to teach him any sort of NHL ready defensive game is completely wrong, especially with how he is deployed.

I got barred on that thread, after someone straight trolled me with no debate or narrative.
It was worth it.

Its not just his defensive game.
He is developing as a human and hockey player on every level.
Walker and Durzi are now playing with way more authority than Clarke displayed.
Blake still has a log jam at RHD.
You learn more about leadership by experiencing it not watching.
My comment was originally when he was on the ice for 3 goals against but it got going after the game you referenced.
I never said it would tech him to be NHL ready, I said it would develop him towards that eventuality.
I am not going to change my mind and neither are you.
so I appreciate your evidence based approach but it does not dissuade me.
and the bottom line is TMac is not going to let raw kids on the roster much and they will be sent packing if they have too many learning experiences that hurt the team.
The team being where they are in the standings and acquiring players that indicate they are going for it again right now is further vindication of the moves made after taking Edmonton to 7 last year.

 

[TruKingFan]

So if QB develops into an 85-point, #1 center for the Kings, replacing Kopitar for like the next 12 years…is he still the ‘wrong’ pick?

(FYI, I think TKF is living rent-free inside your head)

Post of the Year.

 

[Herby]

So if QB develops into an 85-point, #1 center for the Kings, replacing Kopitar for like the next 12 years…is he still the ‘wrong’ pick?

(FYI, I think TKF is living rent-free inside your head)

You (and him) regularly tag me in posts claiming I said things I never said, and you created a thread on this forum specifically directed at me.

But yeah I’m the one with ppl living rent free.

Do you ever stop and think before you post?

And maybe you could also explain the reasons you believe that Byfield will end up as a better offensive center than Kopitar was in his prime.

 

[Sol]

Its not ideal but better to stick with your picks then trade them away for peanuts and see them breakthrough on another team and help them win the cup.
Something the Kings have done more than once.
When your shit gets called and you have nothing or not much, some of you guys resort to insults ,poor attempts at humor and your tv show / movie mentality personality disorder.
This ain't some obscure flick or "The Office" either.
Defintley a bit of a Creepshow though, lol.

I think that people who think Kempes trajectory is normal are generally too far off in the deep end.

“It’s not ideal so it’s better to let them take a spot that they should have taken a lot sooner rather than give someone else a chance to grab it.”

Ah the surf nutz-Axl special. You love to see it lol.

 

[Sol]

Not true the goal is to have THE TEAM win the cup not develop players.
The AHL and other resources are for development.

It’s almost like teams win cup through player development..

Lmao I can’t believe you just advocated for organizations to purposefully sabotage their rookies so they don’t become too good and mess up the cap WHILE the team wins the cup while holding their better players back.


I’m glad you added Nutz to your name because it’s spot on.