Prospect Info: Quinton Byfield (2nd Overall 2020 Draft) Discussion part II

[cyclones22]

I think in large part, that's because he's playing with Grundstrom and Brown. I'd love to play him with Kempe and Kupari and let that line just fly.

Iafallo - Kopitar - Kaliyev
Moore - Danault - Arvidsson
Kempe - Byfield - Kupari
Lemieux - Lizotte - Brown

Play each of the first three lines even minutes at even strength, spell them with the fourth line, distribute power play and penalty kill time as necessary.

This is exactly what should be happening, but our coaching staff won't allow it. In another thread johnjm22 mentioned that Minnesota is playing Matt Boldy and Marco Rossi, their two top offensive prospects 17+ and 15+ minutes a game and giving them PP time. Both players are small sample sizes in games, but Minnesota isn't dicking around with giving these kids the best opportunity to succeed and Minnesota is a far superior team to the Kings and has been for a few seasons now.

It isn't even about "big minutes", which has been beaten to death here. But deployment. This is who Boldy and Rossi are lining up with most of the time: Kevin Fiala, Marcus Foligno, Ryan Hartman, Zuccarello and the worst player being Fredrick Gaudreau. You want Turcotte or Byfield to be more effective? Surround them with that kind of talent. Hell, how about giving Vilardi good linemates if/when he ever returns? Instead, our coaching staff literally gives our top blue-chip prospects the WORST forwards in the lineup and expects them to carry that line to success. Can't do that immediately? Welcome to 10 minutes land with no help from good linemates. RJ has given plenty examples of better teams providing better opportunity to youth over and over. The Minnesota example is just the latest in a long list of them.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

This is exactly what should be happening, but our coaching staff won't allow it. In another thread johnjm22 mentioned that Minnesota is playing Matt Boldy and Marco Rossi, their two top offensive prospects 17+ and 15+ minutes a game and giving them PP time. Both players are small sample sizes in games, but Minnesota isn't dicking around with giving these kids the best opportunity to succeed and Minnesota is a far superior team to the Kings and has been for a few seasons now.

It isn't even about "big minutes", which has been beaten to death here. But deployment. This is who Boldy and Rossi are lining up with most of the time: Kevin Fiala, Marcus Foligno, Ryan Hartman, Zuccarello and the worst player being Fredrick Gaudreau. You want Turcotte or Byfield to be more effective? Surround them with that kind of talent. Hell, how about giving Vilardi good linemates if/when he ever returns? Instead, our coaching staff literally gives our top blue-chip prospects the WORST forwards in the lineup and expects them to carry that line to success. Can't do that immediately? Welcome to 10 minutes land with no help from good linemates. RJ has given plenty examples of better teams providing better opportunity to youth over and over. The Minnesota example is just the latest in a long list of them.

WRT that--and realizing that most of our guys are FIRST year rather than 2nd year, here's a good thread on the general sentiment echoing our struggles but with Lafreniere. The big things are 1. the ice time 2. but more importantly the idea is the one I share, elite guys need big touches, big offensive situations--Turcotte, Byfield, kaliyev et. al. are not getting that development and are sure to be late bloomers if at all if they continue down the current path:

 

[King'sPawn]

WRT that--and realizing that most of our guys are FIRST year rather than 2nd year, here's a good thread on the general sentiment echoing our struggles but with Lafreniere. The big things are 1. the ice time 2. but more importantly the idea is the one I share, elite guys need big touches, big offensive situations--Turcotte, Byfield, kaliyev et. al. are not getting that development and are sure to be late bloomers if at all if they continue down the current path:

You're going to ruin Byfield! He hasn't earned it!

 

[Schmooley]

This is exactly what should be happening, but our coaching staff won't allow it. In another thread johnjm22 mentioned that Minnesota is playing Matt Boldy and Marco Rossi, their two top offensive prospects 17+ and 15+ minutes a game and giving them PP time. Both players are small sample sizes in games, but Minnesota isn't dicking around with giving these kids the best opportunity to succeed and Minnesota is a far superior team to the Kings and has been for a few seasons now.

It isn't even about "big minutes", which has been beaten to death here. But deployment. This is who Boldy and Rossi are lining up with most of the time: Kevin Fiala, Marcus Foligno, Ryan Hartman, Zuccarello and the worst player being Fredrick Gaudreau. You want Turcotte or Byfield to be more effective? Surround them with that kind of talent. Hell, how about giving Vilardi good linemates if/when he ever returns? Instead, our coaching staff literally gives our top blue-chip prospects the WORST forwards in the lineup and expects them to carry that line to success. Can't do that immediately? Welcome to 10 minutes land with no help from good linemates. RJ has given plenty examples of better teams providing better opportunity to youth over and over. The Minnesota example is just the latest in a long list of them.

Turcotte should just be thankful he got to go on the roadie and see how a stanley cup champion like kopitar wipes his ass when hes on the road. The kids are learning valuable lessons from the press box and getting to skate next to Brown for 9 minutes.

 

[cyclones22]

You're going to ruin Byfield! He hasn't earned it!

It's amazing to me that some folks just gobble that up too. The Kings haven't earned benefit of the doubt when it comes to developing scorers. You want to talk defensemen? Sure, no complaints there. But since most of the Kings high draft choices other than Clarke last season are forwards, some of us are very skeptical that the Kings brass know what they're doing here. Especially when franchises in much better states are doing the opposite with their young forwards.

 

[Choralone]

I had to look up Sam Stern. Is he the British chef?

 

[SufferingSelfCreated]

Wrong thread

 

[redcard]

This is exactly what should be happening, but our coaching staff won't allow it. In another thread johnjm22 mentioned that Minnesota is playing Matt Boldy and Marco Rossi, their two top offensive prospects 17+ and 15+ minutes a game and giving them PP time. Both players are small sample sizes in games, but Minnesota isn't dicking around with giving these kids the best opportunity to succeed and Minnesota is a far superior team to the Kings and has been for a few seasons now.

It isn't even about "big minutes", which has been beaten to death here. But deployment. This is who Boldy and Rossi are lining up with most of the time: Kevin Fiala, Marcus Foligno, Ryan Hartman, Zuccarello and the worst player being Fredrick Gaudreau. You want Turcotte or Byfield to be more effective? Surround them with that kind of talent. Hell, how about giving Vilardi good linemates if/when he ever returns? Instead, our coaching staff literally gives our top blue-chip prospects the WORST forwards in the lineup and expects them to carry that line to success. Can't do that immediately? Welcome to 10 minutes land with no help from good linemates. RJ has given plenty examples of better teams providing better opportunity to youth over and over. The Minnesota example is just the latest in a long list of them.

Ok but games played by players 23 and under for Minnesota this season:

Shaw (23) - 2
Dewar (22) - 11
Addison (21) - 9
Boldy (20) - 7
Beckman (20) - 3
Rossi (20) - 2

Total - 34 Games played

Compared to

Clague (23) - 11
Moverare (23) - 1
Andersson (23) - 13
Durzi (23) - 25
Anderson (22) - 42
Vilardi (22) - 7
Anderson-Dolan (22) - 2
Fagemo (21) - 4
Kupari (21) - 37
Turcotte (20) - 8
Bjornfot (20) - 43
Kaliyev (20) - 42
Byfield (19) - 3

Total - 238 games played.

Meaning on average we've had 5.5 players under the age of 23 on the ice every game this season where as Minnesota has almost averaged 1 per game.

That's a pretty substantial difference, the coaches are in completely different situations.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Ok but games played by players 23 and under for Minnesota this season:

Shaw (23) - 2
Dewar (22) - 11
Addison (21) - 9
Boldy (20) - 7
Beckman (20) - 3
Rossi (20) - 2

Total - 34 Games played

Compared to

Clague (23) - 11
Moverare (23) - 1
Andersson (23) - 13
Durzi (23) - 25
Anderson (22) - 42
Vilardi (22) - 7
Anderson-Dolan (22) - 2
Fagemo (21) - 4
Kupari (21) - 37
Turcotte (20) - 8
Bjornfot (20) - 43
Kaliyev (20) - 42
Byfield (19) - 3

Total - 238 games played.

Meaning on average we've had 5.5 players under the age of 23 on the ice every game this season where as Minnesota has almost averaged 1 per game.

That's a pretty substantial difference, the coaches are in completely different situations.

And I think we all have to respect to some degree that the Kings are in a very weird situation. But what gets me even about the above is that the Kings top six is old and the bottom six is young. I haven't run it since things moved around but at one point the top six average age was 30 and the bottom six average age was 23. You would think there is no team better positioned to mix it up and get kids big minutes than the Kings--you already HAVE the defensive saavy vets in place to insulate kids throughout the lineup and your fanbase expects a step up but still a rebuild. There is zero reason contenders can get their top scoring prospects into important 15-17 minutes slots and the Kings can't. We just don't.

Number of games played tells me they're willing to some degree to put them in the lineup and I don't think anyone is really arguing against that, just that what they're asked to do once slotted in is mostly horseshit. Why does BYFIELD need 'protection' when there are two selke guys in front of him, but Marco Rossi doesn't?

Edit: hell just glancing over and last game Boldy got almost the exact same TOI as Kaprizov. Yet here we are giving Kopitar literally 3x the icetime of Byfield...

 

[Herby]

It's amazing to me that some folks just gobble that up too. The Kings haven't earned benefit of the doubt when it comes to developing scorers. You want to talk defensemen? Sure, no complaints there. But since most of the Kings high draft choices other than Clarke last season are forwards, some of us are very skeptical that the Kings brass know what they're doing here. Especially when franchises in much better states are doing the opposite with their young forwards.

It really is.

I remember when Turcotte prematurely signed so many here said how great it was to "get him in the Kings development system"

My first thought was, umm are you sure about that?

These guys sure seem to be neutering a lot of these young kids with how they utilize them, both in Ontario and in LA.

 

[King'sPawn]

It really is.

I remember when Turcotte prematurely signed so many here said how great it was to "get him in the Kings development system"

My first thought was, umm are you sure about that?

These guys sure seem to be neutering a lot of these young kids with how they utilize them, both in Ontario and in LA.

My biggest reason for the support is so they'd be able to prioritize Turcotte, instead of keeping him in Wisconsin where they focused on Golden Cowfield.

Plus, with the age of the core, I thought they would have no choice BUT to focus on incorporating a new wave of youth.

 

[Herby]

My biggest reason for the support is so they'd be able to prioritize Turcotte, instead of keeping him in Wisconsin where they focused on Golden Cowfield.

Plus, with the age of the core, I thought they would have no choice BUT to focus on incorporating a new wave of youth.

I respect your take but I think you are overblowing that aspect of it quite a bit. It's not like they were both playing QB on the football team or PG on the basketball team. They both would have been very important pieces on what ended up being a conference champion team. Great prospects can be developed on the same program, look at the talent on UM's team this season, six or seven guys who could legit be on NHL rosters by the end of this season, including the #1 and #2 picks, doesn't mean Brisson and Hughes aren't being properly developed because Power and Beniers get all the hype.

Much like the dozens of players I have listed who went that path he had a ton to gain from returning for one more season. Just seemed foolish to give all that benefit and proven success up to turn him over to Nelly and Muzz who have yet to develop squat since their buddy got the GM job.

I think at this point it might be an optimal strategy to keep guys in Europe or in college for as long as possible with how the Kings are treating their young scoring forwards.

 

[cyclones22]

Let's be real though, it's quite obvious now that regardless of how a young forward plays in whatever League he did prior to the NHL, he's getting stuck on a shit line and he's going to be forced to grind. Forget about playing to his strengths. Not on TMc's watch. You've got to be the bus boy before you become the chef in his kitchen.

 

[King'sPawn]

I respect your take but I think you are overblowing that aspect of it quite a bit. It's not like they were both playing QB on the football team or PG on the basketball team. They both would have been very important pieces on what ended up being a conference champion team. Great prospects can be developed on the same program, look at the talent on UM's team this season, six or seven guys who could legit be on NHL rosters by the end of this season, including the #1 and #2 picks, doesn't mean Brisson and Hughes aren't being properly developed because Power and Beniers get all the hype.

Much like the dozens of players I have listed who went that path he had a ton to gain from returning for one more season. Just seemed foolish to give all that benefit and proven success up to turn him over to Nelly and Muzz who have yet to develop squat since their buddy got the GM job.

I think at this point it might be an optimal strategy to keep guys in Europe or in college for as long as possible with how the Kings are treating their young scoring forwards.

I understand, and in retrospect my thoughts may have been misguided at the time.

Plus, my hope was that the players talented enough would succeed in spite of the system put in place.

 

[Herby]

Let's be real though, it's quite obvious now that regardless of how a young forward plays in whatever League he did prior to the NHL, he's getting stuck on a shit line and he's going to be forced to grind. Forget about playing to his strengths. Not on TMc's watch. You've got to be the bus boy before you become the chef in his kitchen.

In fairness to TM, he is possibly coaching for his job this season, if the Kings miss the playoffs with what Blake did this summer and with how bad the division has been it is quite possible that they move on from him. Lord knows Luc won't blame Blake or any of the volleyball crew so it'll be another coach sacrificed.

Most coaches lean on veteran players, and especially when their jobs might be on the line, this is not something unique to TM. I think it is also fair to point out that none of the players have really wow'ed in their limited minutes. I mean, I don't think its unfair to say that there probably isn't a Zegras, Seider or Raymond being held back at this point. QB has a chance to eventually get there but right now no one has taken the bull by the horns.

Now I am not completely taking blame away from TM, he has made some terrible decisions for sure, but more of the blame should go on Blake and how he has handled these kids. I'm sure in some alternate universe QB took his rookie lumps in the NHL last year and Turcotte dominated at UW while gaining 15 lbs and both are emerging pieces on the current Kings team. But instead both were in the AHL when neither one should have, and that is on Blake not TM.

 

[Fishhead]

WRT that--and realizing that most of our guys are FIRST year rather than 2nd year, here's a good thread on the general sentiment echoing our struggles but with Lafreniere. The big things are 1. the ice time 2. but more importantly the idea is the one I share, elite guys need big touches, big offensive situations--Turcotte, Byfield, kaliyev et. al. are not getting that development and are sure to be late bloomers if at all if they continue down the current path:

I get the point he is trying to make, but looking at that list (and playing Devil's Advocate here) one could also come to the conclusion that all that ice time was too much too soon for Yakupov, Hughes, and Hischier, resulting in them being pretty much busts for the 1OA. It didn't matter how much McD, Matthews, or MacK played, they were probably going to end up at a ppg no matter what happened. Just the other side of the mirror.

I see both sides, really. Edmonton threw all their vaunted young guys into the fire and it's amounted to a whole lot of nothing. RNH never hit a ppg, Yak is out of the league, Hall had his best seasons after he was traded, etc. McD is obviously special. The one forward they sort of took their time with was Drai, and he's turned into a monster. On the other hand Colorado did kind of the same thing, but with a sprinkling of vets (nothing like the Kings have) and things look really promising there.

There isn't a one size fits all with prospects, even high ones. Some of them benefit from a heavy load early, for others it's the opposite. I don't follow the Rangers closely, but I have a feeling the NYR might be going slower with Laf because they threw Kakko in there and he hasn't done much of anything at all. They've been poor with their first rounders, maybe that's why they usually trade them? They whiffed on Andersson and Kravtsov. After all that recent failure they are probably doing everything they can not to screw up the 1OA.

 

[cyclones22]

In fairness to TM, he is possibly coaching for his job this season, if the Kings miss the playoffs with what Blake did this summer and with how bad the division has been it is quite possible that they move on from him. Lord knows Luc won't blame Blake or any of the volleyball crew so it'll be another coach sacrificed.

Most coaches lean on veteran players, and especially when their jobs might be on the line, this is not something unique to TM. I think it is also fair to point out that none of the players have really wow'ed in their limited minutes. I mean, I don't think its unfair to say that there probably isn't a Zegras, Seider or Raymond being held back at this point. QB has a chance to eventually get there but right now no one has taken the bull by the horns.

Now I am not completely taking blame away from TM, he has made some terrible decisions for sure, but more of the blame should go on Blake and how he has handled these kids. I'm sure in some alternate universe QB took his rookie lumps in the NHL last year and Turcotte dominated at UW while gaining 15 lbs and both are emerging pieces on the current Kings team. But instead both were in the AHL when neither one should have, and that is on Blake not TM.

Oh it's definitely on Blake. Hiring his former coach and making him, at the time I believe, the highest paid coach in the NHL. I can still blame TMc for his shit handling of young players and horrible special teams though!

 

[Fishhead]

Now I am not completely taking blame away from TM, he has made some terrible decisions for sure, but more of the blame should go on Blake and how he has handled these kids. I'm sure in some alternate universe QB took his rookie lumps in the NHL last year and Turcotte dominated at UW while gaining 15 lbs and both are emerging pieces on the current Kings team. But instead both were in the AHL when neither one should have, and that is on Blake not TM.

I completely see this line of thinking, and this could totally be how it plays out. I just think it's far too early to make that kind of judgment on those two players, especially given there were a lot of special circumstances with COVID.

Saying Blake is responsible for Turcotte being in the AHL is a little revisionist, to be honest. Alex went pro because the FF was canceled and the beginning of the NCAA season was delayed, and a lot of stuff was up in the air. I'm not sure how he would gain 15 lbs in college but not in the AHL, either. If anything, professional strength coaches would benefit him more physically. Just another reason why I think it's premature to judge anyone on their pathways for these two, too much shit went down.

 

[redcard]

And I think we all have to respect to some degree that the Kings are in a very weird situation. But what gets me even about the above is that the Kings top six is old and the bottom six is young. I haven't run it since things moved around but at one point the top six average age was 30 and the bottom six average age was 23. You would think there is no team better positioned to mix it up and get kids big minutes than the Kings--you already HAVE the defensive saavy vets in place to insulate kids throughout the lineup and your fanbase expects a step up but still a rebuild. There is zero reason contenders can get their top scoring prospects into important 15-17 minutes slots and the Kings can't. We just don't.

Number of games played tells me they're willing to some degree to put them in the lineup and I don't think anyone is really arguing against that, just that what they're asked to do once slotted in is mostly horseshit. Why does BYFIELD need 'protection' when there are two selke guys in front of him, but Marco Rossi doesn't?

Edit: hell just glancing over and last game Boldy got almost the exact same TOI as Kaprizov. Yet here we are giving Kopitar literally 3x the icetime of Byfield...

Marco Rossi played 2 games and got sent back down, Fagemo got to play with Kopitar with Kempe out for a couple games, is there really much of a difference there?

They've got Boldy out there for 17 minutes per game with 4 other skaters 23 and older, then the other 43 minutes they have 5 skaters on the ice over the age of 23. That's insulation. They can stick a kid with 2 vets, and then have 3 other lines full of vets, with 6 vet defensemen.

But between Kaliyev, Bjornfot, and Byfield you've got 41 minutes out of 60 of a 19 or 20 year old on the ice (no idea how much overlap there is, but that means there's two on the ice at the same time).

Then 38 out of 60 minutes you also have a 22 year old on the ice in Durzi or Anderson. Plus the minutes of the other 0.5 player per game.

I get that we could put Kaliyev with Kopi and put 2 of our best wingers with Byfield and we'd probably see better production from the kids, but Kempe, Iafallo, and Moore are all having career years with Kopitar and Danault, and Arvidsson's already equaled his production from last year and is 3 points behind is total from the year before in 21 fewer games You don't know what happens to their production if you shift them around the lineup. I can forgive Todd for not splitting those guys up because he is doing what he's supposed to do and we're seeing results.

Byfield's a damn good player, its not going to take him long to earn more minutes.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Marco Rossi played 2 games and got sent back down, Fagemo got to play with Kopitar with Kempe out for a couple games, is there really much of a difference there?

They've got Boldy out there for 17 minutes per game with 4 other skaters 23 and older, then the other 43 minutes they have 5 skaters on the ice over the age of 23. That's insulation. They can stick a kid with 2 vets, and then have 3 other lines full of vets, with 6 vet defensemen.

But between Kaliyev, Bjornfot, and Byfield you've got 41 minutes out of 60 of a 19 or 20 year old on the ice (no idea how much overlap there is, but that means there's two on the ice at the same time).

Then 38 out of 60 minutes you also have a 22 year old on the ice in Durzi or Anderson. Plus the minutes of the other 0.5 player per game.

I get that we could put Kaliyev with Kopi and put 2 of our best wingers with Byfield and we'd probably see better production from the kids, but Kempe, Iafallo, and Moore are all having career years with Kopitar and Danault, and Arvidsson's already equaled his production from last year and is 3 points behind is total from the year before in 21 fewer games You don't know what happens to their production if you shift them around the lineup. I can forgive Todd for not splitting those guys up because he is doing what he's supposed to do and we're seeing results.

Byfield's a damn good player, its not going to take him long to earn more minutes.

Re: fagemo on the top line, it's not different--but that's why it's maddening. They've shown they can and will do that, but why Sammy and no one else in half a season?

I get at this point why TM wouldn't split up the '4th' line and move guys away that have established chemistry but again, that's not an excuse from game 1. It didn't take long before injuries, Brown sucking, and several other things happening.

And again, I'm not advocating anything even necessarily long term here (well, other than for the big guys); why is it so hard for Kaliyev to get even a game or two in the top 6? Why is it so hard to line up any of the killer one timers in this org in a spot to use that weaponry on the PP (and they did it for Fagemo, lol)? Why is it so hard to line Turcotte up on a scoring line anywhere?

i'm sure this will get better as they go along the question will always be 'is the damage done' or 'would they have done anything anyway' and for some of us we were always worried how the Kings would handle elite offensive talent and so far those worries appear to be justified.

 

[redcard]

Re: fagemo on the top line, it's not different--but that's why it's maddening. They've shown they can and will do that, but why Sammy and no one else in half a season?

I get at this point why TM wouldn't split up the '4th' line and move guys away that have established chemistry but again, that's not an excuse from game 1. It didn't take long before injuries, Brown sucking, and several other things happening.

And again, I'm not advocating anything even necessarily long term here (well, other than for the big guys); why is it so hard for Kaliyev to get even a game or two in the top 6? Why is it so hard to line up any of the killer one timers in this org in a spot to use that weaponry on the PP (and they did it for Fagemo, lol)? Why is it so hard to line Turcotte up on a scoring line anywhere?

i'm sure this will get better as they go along the question will always be 'is the damage done' or 'would they have done anything anyway' and for some of us we were always worried how the Kings would handle elite offensive talent and so far those worries appear to be justified.

I don't believe the 'is the damage done' mentality. There's always people debating about prospects getting rushed and then there's also this not enough ice time or early opportunity debate, and when the prospects fail or succeed they point to this being the right or wrong decision. But there's so many factors that determine whether or not a player succeeds and 0 evidence that the result would have been any different had the opposite decision been made.

Kaliyev has always had an NHL shot, but we all know where his shortcomings are and that's what's going to determine whether or not he succeeds as an NHL player. And that growth takes place on the ice, off the ice, at practice, before games, during games, after games, in the video room, etc. Could a few more minutes per game or different linemates have an impact? Absolutely, but if he fails to become the player we hope he will is that really going to be the reason?

 

[SmytheKing]

It's amazing to me that some folks just gobble that up too. The Kings haven't earned benefit of the doubt when it comes to developing scorers. You want to talk defensemen? Sure, no complaints there. But since most of the Kings high draft choices other than Clarke last season are forwards, some of us are very skeptical that the Kings brass know what they're doing here. Especially when franchises in much better states are doing the opposite with their young forwards.

What I just noticed/realized too is hysterical when you think about it. They do a good job developing defensemen...and I'm sure it's just a coincidence that those young defensemen aren't playing 10-12 minutes a night. They're playing 21 minutes a game right out of the bat alongside Drew Doughty like Mikey Anderson. Or they're playing 17-18 a night like Bjornfot as the (effective) #3 or #4. Weird how that's happened.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I don't believe the 'is the damage done' mentality. There's always people debating about prospects getting rushed and then there's also this not enough ice time or early opportunity debate, and when the prospects fail or succeed they point to this being the right or wrong decision. But there's so many factors that determine whether or not a player succeeds and 0 evidence that the result would have been any different had the opposite decision been made.

Kaliyev has always had an NHL shot, but we all know where his shortcomings are and that's what's going to determine whether or not he succeeds as an NHL player. And that growth takes place on the ice, off the ice, at practice, before games, during games, after games, in the video room, etc. Could a few more minutes per game or different linemates have an impact? Absolutely, but if he fails to become the player we hope he will is that really going to be the reason?

I agree that there are a lot of factors at play but with respect you're completely removing organizational responsibility and putting it on the player in the first paragraph. no, we can't prove a negative, but usage/deployment/opportunity are certainly an issue. You have to get minutes, period.

For all we know--and for what I hope--the Kings have some of these kids like Turcotte/Kaliyev etc. on sort of a 'snap count' for workload and are doing other off-ice stuff to prepare them. I'd love to hear that. But from what we see, yes, a few more minutes a game ARE a huge impact--the difference between 12 and 18 minutes per game over a full season is nearly 500 minutes, it's an additional 33% workload, and playing 984 minutes next to Lemieux/Lizotte are great for Kaliyev's puck digging, but 1476 with Kopitar/Danault/Kempe et. al. and on the PP would be better for his scoring. Maybe that's in the plan, I sure hope it is, and I know it's not that black and white I'm just illustrating that not getting appropriate minutes is a way bigger deal that needs to stop being hand waved off as nothing.

 

[jgs]

There have been numerous first round picks that made the NHL right out of the draft and lots who spent a year in the minors then flourished in the big league. Those are the type of prospects that should be drafted. Drafting a prospect and then having to wait 2 or 3 years to see if he pans out is a bad move. QB from what I see is nowhere close to what Macdavid and Matthews are. He should be a level below but he isn't that yet by how he is playing. So there is a chance that he might not rise to the level Blake thinks he will. First round picks must pan out, blowing first picks leads to icing bad team.

 

[redcard]

I agree that there are a lot of factors at play but with respect you're completely removing organizational responsibility and putting it on the player in the first paragraph. no, we can't prove a negative, but usage/deployment/opportunity are certainly an issue. You have to get minutes, period.

For all we know--and for what I hope--the Kings have some of these kids like Turcotte/Kaliyev etc. on sort of a 'snap count' for workload and are doing other off-ice stuff to prepare them. I'd love to hear that. But from what we see, yes, a few more minutes a game ARE a huge impact--the difference between 12 and 18 minutes per game over a full season is nearly 500 minutes, it's an additional 33% workload, and playing 984 minutes next to Lemieux/Lizotte are great for Kaliyev's puck digging, but 1476 with Kopitar/Danault/Kempe et. al. and on the PP would be better for his scoring. Maybe that's in the plan, I sure hope it is, and I know it's not that black and white I'm just illustrating that not getting appropriate minutes is a way bigger deal that needs to stop being hand waved off as nothing.

I'm not completely removing organizational responsibility, merely stating that a majority of the work gets done outside of those 12-18 minutes per game. The majority of the coaching, instruction, training, learning, etc. is happening between games and that's as much on the organization and staff as it is on the player. They're not getting fewer practice minutes to go along with their fewer game minutes, its likely the inverse.

I liken it to when I was a kid learning piano, I was pretty good but hated it. I had 30 minute lessons once a week but didn't touch the keys at all in between. If I had 45 minute lessons, that's an additional 50% work load, of course I'd have been even better. But that's not why I didn't make it as a musician, its because of the lack of work done in between lessons.

I don't doubt that more ice time is better. I just don't think that its going to be the make or break factor when these guys are spending hours upon hours practicing and training and learning every week, and that responsibility lies with the organization, the coaching staff, and the player.