Proposal: Puljujärvi for Trouba

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McSuper

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Jun 16, 2012
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Yet that is what Chiarelli traded to get the D he sought. Value is relative, buddy. We're establishing what Larsson and Trouba's value is to each other and what that value means to other teams. Keep the cult of personality going, buddy.

Who cares what Chia did if it gets more wins . I would trade McDavid today if it means stacking the Oilers to the point they would win a few cups . Wins matters .

If Hall was with Edmonton and we ended up bottom 5 again and we end up close to a playoff spot with the changes how can anyone say Hall has more value . Now if Hall breaks out and NJ makes the playoffs with him and the Oilers are at the bottom of the standings again value would be in Halls favour . I am not one to place value on a player . I would trade the better player for 2 lessor players if it = more wins .
 

CaptainChef

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But you're ignoring the meat of my post. I'll explain again and it's pretty simple...

Larsson at $4M for the next 5 years > Trouba RFA rights and what is sure to be a more pricey contract than Larsson's.

I disagree that Trouba is a better "defender". Larsson played some of the hardest minutes in the league with heavy defensive zone minutes and ended up a +15 on a team that had a -24 goal differential. I know that +/- isn't the end all be all but it's pretty telling when he's that strongly in the plus column on a team that was routinely outscored when he wasn't on the ice (-39).

Anyway, regardless of what each fanbase thinks of their player, the FACT remains and the only facts in this whole argument are that Larsson's contract is $4M+ for the next 5 years while Trouba doesn't have a contract currently. One would think that the bargain contract of two similar level players would hold more value.

So unless you think Larsson's potential is anywhere close to Trouba's, who would you rather on your squad -- an above average player making 4 m/yr or a much better than average player at 5.5 m/yr.

That's what we're talking about here; no interest in your 4 million $ man. Can't wait for Trouba to get signed by the Jets & be playing in his rightful spot (top 4) & (most important) never again be paired with an absolute joke of a d-man (Stuart). At that point there will be a lot of folks on here eating crow, and I doubt very much that it will be Jets supporters.
 

sully1410

#EggosForEleven
Dec 28, 2011
15,546
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Calgary, Alta.
Ive actually watched trouba play enough to judge him. You're gonna see him come up with a beautiful move from time to time and on some nights he makes himself look like a top pairing Dman. However, on far too many nights, he looks like an average second pairing and doing nothing special.

You a pro scout? No? Then how can you actually judge a players ceiling.

That's like me saying that Larsson is nothing special because I've watched him a number of times. Would you believe me? Should any stock be put into my observations? No. Of course not.

And the same goes for you or anyone else. You don't know what your talking about. Simple as that.
 

CupofOil

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Aug 20, 2009
48,677
45,617
NYC
Did you actually try to use +/-? Mark Stuart would be a +15 playing in front of Corey Schneider.

So how do you explain the -39 goal differential when Larsson was off the ice or was Schneider only playing goal when Larsson was on the ice?
 

UnicornONtheCOBB

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Jun 29, 2016
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there is no proof that Trouba is a better D than Larsson is at this point. Neither is done developing. I do believe that Trouba has a better shot and better offensive instincts at this point. I also feel that Larsson has the better shut down game. Both are good, young D with bright futures, but I wouldn't bet my house on who is going to better long term, it's too tough to know.

To buddy, who thinks that contracts don't matter, I think you're missing the point. Trouba could end up being better than Larsson, he might be a number 1, he also might be a number 3 or 4, who puts up 25 to 30 points and is overpaid at 6 million per. There is a reason why he hasn't signed yet, and that reason is uncertainty, simple as that. I believe Trouba has the game to be a top pairing dman, but it isn't a sure thing. I also think Larsson could settle in nicely with the Oilers and become a solid #2 and even start to produce some more offensively. But, again, this is just a belief. Larsson at 4 million per, even if all he ever is, is a 2nd pairing dman, is being paid fairly, if he becomes more than that, he's a steal. Trouba will not sign for 6 years at 4 million per, and nor should he. He'll get 5.5 to 6, and hopefully he'll get to the point where he deserves that and more, but it will still be a bit of a gamble. A good gamble, IMO.

These are 2 good dmen, you don't need to bash one or the other, they can both be very important parts of their teams.
 

JetsHomer

Registered User
Nov 29, 2011
10,941
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Trouba was +10 on a team with Ondrej Pavelec as it's #1 goaltender... +/- is a terrible stat, but it even it doesn't favour Larsson over Trouba
 

UnicornONtheCOBB

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Jun 29, 2016
353
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So how do you explain the -39 goal differential when Larsson was off the ice or was Schneider only playing goal when Larsson was on the ice?

Larsson is good, simple as that. Schneider is good too, and I'm sure he helped cover up mistakes for every player on the team. Edmonton and all of it's players and management have become the whipping boys for the entire league. 10 years of bad hockey, not much any of us fans can do to convince anyone that things are about to change for the better. I'm just excited that there is a new group in town, new president, new GM, new coaching staff, and a bunch of new players. It's time to shut up and put up, and hopefully that's what they're gonna do.
 

Purity*

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Jan 29, 2010
8,446
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So unless you think Larsson's potential is anywhere close to Trouba's, who would you rather on your squad -- an above average player making 4 m/yr or a much better than average player at 5.5 m/yr.

That's what we're talking about here; no interest in your 4 million $ man. Can't wait for Trouba to get signed by the Jets & be playing in his rightful spot (top 4) & (most important) never again be paired with an absolute joke of a d-man (Stuart). At that point there will be a lot of folks on here eating crow, and I doubt very much that it will be Jets supporters.

In the mean time, he can work on not getting stuck down the depth chart and maybe try matching his rookie point production.
 

GoJetsGo55

Registered User
Apr 14, 2009
11,267
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Buddy we're in 2016 in the golden era of the internet, if there's a hockey game I want to watch I'm going to find a way to watch it.

More than 5 games a season, much more.

What website do you use. I used to subscribe to an illegal service but it was eventually taken down. Best I can find now is some crap 240p sites that are probably taking my bank account information at the same time. Don't even get me started on actual legit sites that still block everything.
 

Booster*

Registered User
Jan 10, 2016
689
2
Go back in time and start a Larsson for Hall trade and see how far you would get......and yet.....here we are. :laugh:

haha yeah

Anyhow it´s not that i would mind that trade, it´s just not logical, rather have Klefs for Laine so it will be Laine-McDavid-Pulju next 10-15 years :nod:
 

GoJetsGo55

Registered User
Apr 14, 2009
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In the mean time, he can work on not getting stuck down the depth chart and maybe try matching his rookie point production.

LOL Should we start talking about how Malkin is just a second line center? :laugh:

Also....points is a good one.

Rielly = Career .38 PPG = Easily a #1 D who is a tier above Trouba

Trouba = Career .34 PPG = Currently a 3-4 at best and is a tier below.

Apparently .04 is what separates the gods from the plebs.
 

Homesick

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Aug 2, 2005
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So unless you think Larsson's potential is anywhere close to Trouba's, who would you rather on your squad -- an above average player making 4 m/yr or a much better than average player at 5.5 m/yr.

That's what we're talking about here; no interest in your 4 million $ man. Can't wait for Trouba to get signed by the Jets & be playing in his rightful spot (top 4) & (most important) never again be paired with an absolute joke of a d-man (Stuart). At that point there will be a lot of folks on here eating crow, and I doubt very much that it will be Jets supporters.
Judging by your username I'd say you are extremely biased :laugh: Trouba is a 2nd pairing defenseman and statistically hasnt made much(if any) improvement since his rookie season. He's a turnover machine with little offense that shouldnt be playing more than 18 minutes a night.
Its laughable that you think Trouba is a much better defenseman than Larsson.
 

Homesick

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What website do you use. I used to subscribe to an illegal service but it was eventually taken down. Best I can find now is some crap 240p sites that are probably taking my bank account information at the same time. Don't even get me started on actual legit sites that still block everything.
I have a Rogers phone = free centre ice. Nothing gets blocked
 

UnicornONtheCOBB

Registered User
Jun 29, 2016
353
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Both the Jets and the Devils were a collective -24 on the season

so, then why can you use the Pavelic/Schneider argument? If the Jets offence made up the difference for Pav's poor goaltending. You're just trying to twist any numbers that will support your point. Simple as that.

Trouba is good. Larsson is good. There are lots of good, young, not fully developed or proven dmen out there.
 

CaptainChef

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Jan 5, 2014
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Judging by your username I'd say you are extremely biased :laugh: Trouba is a 2nd pairing defenseman and statistically hasnt made much(if any) improvement since his rookie season. He's a turnover machine with little offense that shouldnt be playing more than 18 minutes a night.
Its laughable that you think Trouba is a much better defenseman than Larsson.

I'll just beg to differ that he hasn't improved since his rookie season (unless you can shoot holes in this --
http://jetsnation.ca/2016/6/6/don-t...you-trouba-has-been-getting-better-and-better
 

ffh

Registered User
Jul 16, 2016
8,488
5,253
Judging by your username I'd say you are extremely biased :laugh: Trouba is a 2nd pairing defenseman and statistically hasnt made much(if any) improvement since his rookie season. He's a turnover machine with little offense that shouldnt be playing more than 18 minutes a night.
Its laughable that you think Trouba is a much better defenseman than Larsson.
Maybe larsson can go to world cup and get troubas autograph.
 

CaptainChef

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Jan 5, 2014
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Here's the coles notes version for you
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=121709349

In short, Trouba's progression seems to be a fairly consistent and positive one in the two-way numbers when you account for team performance and quality of linemates....

The Mark Stuart Effect -- So, when we look at how the the results split with and without Stuart for Jacob Trouba, we have to remember that Trouba is also playing away from Stuart in a non-optimal situation....
Trouba scoring increases by about 24 percent when away from Mark Stuart. If we extrapolate Trouba's point pace without Stuart over his career minutes, his 5v5 point totals jump from 42 to 48, an increase of 14 percent. Give Trouba the extra power play icetime that was given to Myers, and Trouba gains an extra 9-10 points to his 72 point career totals.
 

Purity*

Registered User
Jan 29, 2010
8,446
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LOL Should we start talking about how Malkin is just a second line center? :laugh:

Also....points is a good one.

Rielly = Career .38 PPG = Easily a #1 D who is a tier above Trouba

Trouba = Career .34 PPG = Currently a 3-4 at best and is a tier below.

Apparently .04 is what separates the gods from the plebs.

Wow you guys seriously milk the **** out of that rookie season he had.

Rielly was significantly better than him offensively while being right there/if not better than him defensively. I don't want to hear any excuses about him being stuck down the depth chart as a RHD with Stuart as a partner. Rielly adapted extremely well to playing his off-side alongside world-beater Matt Hunwick.

Here's the coles notes version for you
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=121709349

In short, Trouba's progression seems to be a fairly consistent and positive one in the two-way numbers when you account for team performance and quality of linemates....

The Mark Stuart Effect -- So, when we look at how the the results split with and without Stuart for Jacob Trouba, we have to remember that Trouba is also playing away from Stuart in a non-optimal situation....
Trouba scoring increases by about 24 percent when away from Mark Stuart. If we extrapolate Trouba's point pace without Stuart over his career minutes, his 5v5 point totals jump from 42 to 48, an increase of 14 percent. Give Trouba the extra power play icetime that was given to Myers, and Trouba gains an extra 9-10 points to his 72 point career totals.

Wow that is the worst abuse of stat manipulation I've ever seen, I'm sure those hypothetical points will get the Jets into the hypothetical playoffs. Meyers had 26 POINTS FFS, if Trouba isn't able to be better than that he doesn't deserve to be playing over him.

Unbelievable the amount of excuses that gets made for this guy.
 
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