Puck Daddy: Team Europe World Cup players frustrated with format

[Frank the Tank]

Shouldn't you be happy that thus far I've been bashing a common stereotype instead of any actual participant? And I don't intend to veer from that in the future either, since I think it's against the forum rules.

A simple reason why the NHL gets bashed about being greedy as opposed to the IOC getting away with it, is that the former is pretty god damn blatant about it. And on top of that, the NHL decided to bring in two joke teams into their tournament, which is still the main issue here (and no issue at all in the olympics), turning this whole talk about corruption into a sideshow.

Blatant greed is worse than masked greed. I now understand your point. Have a good day.

 

[Zine]

Don't know what you are implying with these comments. I'll be blunt, do you think I am Joe Hockey from the Canadian backwoods? I find it disappointing that you cannot debate this issue without attacking those who oppose you.



Hence why I keep on pointing out why is it that people only get their undies in a bunch when the NHL/NHLPA is pocketing the cash from an international event. You keep trying to expand the argument, and it is irrelevant to my original point. There is no misdirection involved. Just a simple question - why can only the IOC and IIHF profit from international hockey, when, indeed, they rely on the charity of the NHL to host their premiere events?

Because the mere definition of 'cash grab' doesn't apply to any IIHF or IOC hockey event......yet it does for the 2016 World Cup with its ridiculously gimmicky teams. What's next?...the over 34 team? Team OldGunzzzz?
Someone earlier mentioned Vince McMahon, good comparison actually.

mon·ey grab
• n. inf. an undignified or unprincipled acquisition of a large sum of money with little effort.
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1O999-moneygrab.html

 

[xxxx]

I have this image in my head of 10 flags crowded together on one pole being raised very slowly as the players get their medals, during the 20 minutes it would take for all 10 anthems to play.

Makes me curious how many countries would actually be represented - Slovenia, Slovakia...Switzerland? Denmark? Germany?

+ Austria, France, Belarus, Norway, Latvia. That's quite a lot I would say.

Slovenia - Kopitar
Slovakia - Hossa, Chara, Halak, Tatar, Gaborik, Sekera - at least
Switzerland - Josi, Hiller, Niederreiter - at least
Denmark - Boedker, F.Nielsen, F.Andersen - at least
Germany - maybe D.Seidenberg, Ehrhoff, Draisaitl
Austria - Vanek, Grabner
France - maybe Rousell, Da Costa, or Bellemare
Belarus - Grabovski, A. Kostitsyn, S.Kostitsyn,
Norway - Zuccarello
Latvia - Girgensons

 

[FiLe]

Blatant greed is worse than masked greed.

Not necessarily worse, but sure as heck a dozen times easier to raise attention to.

 

[xxxx]

It is an alternative attempt by the NHL/NHLPA to achieve high-quality hockey games between all 8 teams. It cannot be compared to the Olympics because it clearly distinguished itself as a different type of tournament. Speaking of which, I think the passive shell play of many teams in Sochi 2014 gets the blame for the exclusion of the lower ranked nations (fairly or not). Unlike Vancouver 2010, the majority of games played at the last Olympics were difficult to watch for anyone outside the two nations playing.



The federations are more appropriate beneficiaries of the revenue than the players risking their careers to play in the tournament? Indeed, there are benefits to growing the game through support of national federations, and not every tournament needs to follow that format. In particular, I imagine many Slovak players would not appreciate their efforts on the ice supporting the Slovak Ice Hockey Association and its known corruption?



Greed is obviously in the eyes of the beholder. When I think greedy, I see an organization like the IOC who exploits countries and athletes to prop up the ego and pocket books of a few elite few IOC members. Why not rally against the Olympics hockey? Or is greed OK as long as the tournament follows the age-old international formula? This World Cup format was obviously a compromise solution to include the likes of Kopitar, Vanek, Zuccarello, etc... and they will be compensated well for their efforts.

couldn't agree more with you.

 

[Lacaar]

You know, maybe they DO owe something? Take this tournament, for example. It will feature eight teams, each 25 strong. That's two hundred players.

125 of them will be from Europe.

And how many from N.A?

Where's the charity games in N.A? You know. the ones half sold out at cheap ticket prices?

We deserve it.. we have more players than Europe.

 

[Lacaar]

The NFL and NBA are spending alot of money to try to make the sport grow in other parts of the world. Why can't the NHL do the same. There is a reason why hockey is so far behind football despite football being played mainly in the US.

I've never seen an NFL held Tournament anywhere.
The NHL has played Eurpopean games just like the NFL.

I've never seen the NBA do anything likewise.

When those leagues hold tournaments in Europe let me know.

 

[FiLe]

And how many from N.A?

That's quite simple subtraction math, is it not?

The thing is, there would be no World Cup, even in its current abysmal form, without European players.

 

[Theokritos]

Where's the charity games in N.A? You know. the ones half sold out at cheap ticket prices?

We deserve it.. we have more players than Europe.

What are you referring to? The IIHF World Championship?

 

[FiLe]

The most fundamental wrong about this "World Cup" is that it indeed is a North American product designed for North American fans.

Yet, it is a tournament that would not exist without European players. And it's being talked about as a potential replacement for the olympics, a truly global product.


That's not just North Americans getting the "tournament they deserve". It's them trying to own the game.

 

[Aceonfire*]

The most fundamental wrong about this "World Cup" is that it indeed is a North American product designed for North American fans.

Yet, it is a tournament that would not exist without European players. And it's being talked about as a potential replacement for the olympics, a truly global product.


That's not just North Americans getting the "tournament they deserve". It's them trying to own the game.

Europe already has the World Championship. Canada has hosted that tournament one time in its History. It's more for the Euros than anything else. So your statement is a little hypocritical. It's not easy watching games at 4am..

 

[Summer Rose]

I really hope Team Europe wins this tournament as kind of a giant middle finger gesture.

 

[Hardyvan123]

No. If they say they like it, in a manner that leaves no room for any other interpretation, they like it. They won't mention negatives if they do.

If somebody mentions negatives, they have reservations. They may go along with it, but won't be behind it 100%.

And in the words of a certain hockey personality... "90% effort means 50% performance".

You do see the huge problem here right?

Asking players if they would rather win anything or win the SC?

Even most NHLer's from Europe care more about the SC now.

 

[FiLe]

Europe already has the World Championship. Canada has hosted that tournament one time in its History. It's more for the Euros than anything else. So your statement is a little hypocritical. It's not easy watching games at 4am..

Except the WHC ain't best-on-best.

Only gesture we greedy Euros ask is the NHL releasing its players to the olympics (which are around the world, sometimes we have to stay up as well) for two weeks every four years. With that done, you can have your league and all the World Cups you want.

Asking players if they would rather win anything or win the SC?

Even most NHLer's from Europe care more about the SC now.

Umm... what? They give the Stanley Cup to the World Cup winner now?

 

[varsaku]

I've never seen an NFL held Tournament anywhere.
The NHL has played Eurpopean games just like the NFL.

I've never seen the NBA do anything likewise.

When those leagues hold tournaments in Europe let me know.

The NFL plays regular season games at Wembley Stadium in London. The NFL even wants to move a team to London, to mainly grow the sport there. It may or may not work out, but atleast they are trying.

 

[xxxx]

The NFL plays regular season games at Wembley Stadium in London. The NFL even wants to move a team to London, to mainly grow the sport there. It may or may not work out, but atleast they are trying.

Between 2007 and 2011, the NHL played some RS games (and friendly games with European teams) in Sweden, England, Switzerland, Russia, Germany, Czech republic, and other countries... 48 games overall, 28 of them against European teams. They weren't trying?

 

[Theokritos]

Between 2007 and 2011, the NHL played some RS games (and friendly games with European teams) in Sweden, England, Switzerland, Russia, Germany, Czech republic, and other countries... 48 games overall, 28 of them against European teams. They weren't trying?

Don't get it either. How has the NFL done a better job than the NHL? The situation of (American) football and ice hockey in Europe are very different, I really don't see the comparison here.

 

[xxxx]

Don't get it either. How has the NFL done a better job than the NHL? The situation of (American) football and ice hockey in Europe are very different, I really don't see the comparison here.

I agree, there is no comparison, because hockey is a quite global sport, whereas American football (even though I like it) not as much. Or correct me if I'm wrong.

There is truly no comparison because while hockey is well-established in Europe, and there are some countries who dominates the sport, you can't say the same about american football at all.

 

[holyprime]

My point was not that the IIHF should wait for the NHL playoffs to finish. Instead, the point remains that each organization, IIHF included, schedules their events and chooses the tournament format to make themselves money.

No event is held purely for the benefit of the game of hockey. There are financial motives that are considered by all organizations, and to single out the NHL as the only one interested in a money grab is either naive or disingenuous.

Well that's how we (or past generations) shaped society/economy, if you want the IIHF to host their tournament for "the good of the game" (scnr, fifa), you've got to subsidy them in another way, or that organisation will cease to exist.

And its just the nature of the thing that it looks worse, if its not an international body that supports all the national federations with that money, but a privately owned league which is also giving the finger to almost anybody not playing in it.

We deserve it.. we have more players than Europe.

Poster boy murica

 

[cutchemist42]

It is an alternative attempt by the NHL/NHLPA to achieve high-quality hockey games between all 8 teams. It cannot be compared to the Olympics because it clearly distinguished itself as a different type of tournament. Speaking of which, I think the passive shell play of many teams in Sochi 2014 gets the blame for the exclusion of the lower ranked nations (fairly or not). Unlike Vancouver 2010, the majority of games played at the last Olympics were difficult to watch for anyone outside the two nations playing.



The federations are more appropriate beneficiaries of the revenue than the players risking their careers to play in the tournament? Indeed, there are benefits to growing the game through support of national federations, and not every tournament needs to follow that format. In particular, I imagine many Slovak players would not appreciate their efforts on the ice supporting the Slovak Ice Hockey Association and its known corruption?



Greed is obviously in the eyes of the beholder. When I think greedy, I see an organization like the IOC who exploits countries and athletes to prop up the ego and pocket books of a few elite few IOC members. Why not rally against the Olympics hockey? Or is greed OK as long as the tournament follows the age-old international formula? This World Cup format was obviously a compromise solution to include the likes of Kopitar, Vanek, Zuccarello, etc... and they will be compensated well for their efforts.

Yes, but it also creates games where fans might not even care about the games itself. In league play, NHLvsNHL is something people get behind as it proves something over a whole season. After decades of international hockey, people expect NTvsNT as it also proves something. NT vs. video-game team really proves nothing in the context of a international event. Why care that a NT beat a made-up team? What fans would made-up teams even gather really. The NHL has basically created games where the atmosphere will be lacking, and it says a lot that the NHL is the only league to ever try this, because its not a good idea.

Also, dont know why people keep bringing up competitive games, as I dont see YoungGunz being any better than a Swiss/Slovak team where coaching methods and teamates have been shared for years.

 

[JackSlater]

Also, dont know why people keep bringing up competitive games, as I dont see YoungGunz being any better than a Swiss/Slovak team where coaching methods and teamates have been shared for years.

People claiming this are just parroting the NHL. Daly and company have been trying to justify the gimmicks as a means of making a supposedly more competitive tournament.

 

[Jussi]

Greed is obviously in the eyes of the beholder. When I think greedy, I see an organization like the IOC who exploits countries and athletes to prop up the ego and pocket books of a few elite few IOC members.

http://www.olympic.org/ioc-financing-revenue-sources-distribution

Such exploitation...

 

[Jussi]

Europe already has the World Championship. Canada has hosted that tournament one time in its History. It's more for the Euros than anything else. So your statement is a little hypocritical. It's not easy watching games at 4am..

Because they haven't applied to host it...

 

[xxxx]

McDavid on WC:

“It’s really unique,” said McDavid. “It’s a great format and something people aren’t necessarily used to and that’s a good thing. It’s good to mix it up. I know a lot of people are having a tough time understanding the whole this team and that team, the under-23 and that kind of thing. It can be confusing but it’s a great format and should be a great tournament.”

 

[FiLe]

McDavid on WC:

"I'm giving you this cookie-cutter statement because I don't wanna get crap from the powers that be."