Puck Daddy: Team Europe World Cup players frustrated with format

[FiLe]

Also many of the European leagues now end later as well due to longer regular seasons. I thik the past two seasons ina row, due to going the full 7 game finals, Finnish league has ended only two weeks before the start of the Worlds as well.

Actually, the regular seasons have not been lengthened all that much, it's the post-seasons that have grown in scope. Playoff series in almost all rounds are best-of-seven these days, when earlier on they used to vary from best-of-three to best-of-five.

Regular season in Liiga for example ends at early March, which is pretty much where it has ended for quite a while now, give or take a week. The KHL regular season ends in early February. That's a lot of time for eliminated players to try and stay warm through scrimmages and whatnot while waiting for the NT camps and preliminaries to start.

But yeah, the main reason for the current timing of the WHC pretty much is that the IIHF can't cater to the NHL schedule only. If they did, they'd put teams outside the Elite Six even at bigger disadvantage.

 

[holyprime]

The IIHF compromises the sanctity of their very own World Hockey Championships by refusing to wait a few weeks for the NHL playoffs to end. Why? Because they want to maximize profits by catering to the European hockey fan.

Well, after the playoffs there's the draft, and maybe someone (projected top5 pick from an emerging country like Norway, which could use him at the WHC) can't attend both, so maybe we should schedule the WHC to August, i've heard Qatar has some nice rinks.

Ever thought that the IIHF can't wait forever for one single league, which is causing trouble as soon as it hears the word "international" anyway, even if it is it's own bloody tournament?

Also, they don't maximize profits by catering to any fan, but with sometimes ridiculous ticket prices (the host country, to be precise)

 

[Phil McKraken]

It would be hilarious if Team Europe won. No one would really be happy, not even Slovakians, Slovenians or Swiss people.

 

[varsaku]

And yet, absolutely nothing requires them to have qualifiers. Or did the YoungStarz and Leftovers somehow have to go through a qualification process? Let's repeat, there was nothing that would have prevented them from inviting Slovakia and Switzerland instead of those two mickey mouse teams.

Yet they're calling it an international tournament. "World" = "NHL" now? How... American.

I hate that every time the NHL wants make money comes at the expense of hurting the image of hockey every time. NHL has had so many chances to help grow the game around the world, but refuses to do so.

 

[Lacaar]

I love it. Will make for some good competitive hockey.

Much better than watching the weaker teams put up the human shield to make the games close while getting outshot 2-1 and never leaving their end.

Nothing worse than watching that. Heck I don't bother.

 

[Lacaar]

I hate that every time the NHL wants make money comes at the expense of hurting the image of hockey every time. NHL has had so many chances to help grow the game around the world, but refuses to do so.

Why do you put this responsibility on the NHL players and owners?

Like hockey growth in Europe is some charity that needs to be nurtured at the cost of fans in N.A?

 

[syc]

Would be better quality hockey if they removed the EU, youngstars and team Canada and replaced them with Canada West, Canada East and Ontario.

 

[varsaku]

Why do you put this responsibility on the NHL players and owners?

Like hockey growth in Europe is some charity that needs to be nurtured at the cost of fans in N.A?

The NFL and NBA are spending alot of money to try to make the sport grow in other parts of the world. Why can't the NHL do the same. There is a reason why hockey is so far behind football despite football being played mainly in the US.

 

[FiLe]

Why do you put this responsibility on the NHL players and owners?

Like hockey growth in Europe is some charity that needs to be nurtured at the cost of fans in N.A?

You know, maybe they DO owe something? Take this tournament, for example. It will feature eight teams, each 25 strong. That's two hundred players.

125 of them will be from Europe.

 

[Healthy DiPietro]

To be honest I wouldn't have a problem with this as a Norwegian, Dane, German or Slovenian (presently being so far away in the best-on-best context) but this whole idea is very discouraging towards Switzerland and Slovakia as hockey markets. I thought what most people wanted was for Switzerland to take that final step and for Slovakia to get back on the horse again. This thing tells people that they should settle for something much lesser, and it doesn't give them a chance to grow.

 

[talkinaway]

It would be hilarious if Team Europe won. No one would really be happy, not even Slovakians, Slovenians or Swiss people.

I have this image in my head of 10 flags crowded together on one pole being raised very slowly as the players get their medals, during the 20 minutes it would take for all 10 anthems to play.

Makes me curious how many countries would actually be represented - Slovenia, Slovakia...Switzerland? Denmark? Germany?

 

[Phil McKraken]

I have this image in my head of 10 flags crowded together on one pole being raised very slowly as the players get their medals, during the 20 minutes it would take for all 10 anthems to play.

They should raise a flag of Gary Bettman behind a 'prohibited' sign.

Come to think of it, the insult itself of the team's existance might be a very good motivator for the players. Can you think of a better "we'll show them" scenario than this?

 

[JackSlater]

They should raise a flag of Gary Bettman behind a 'prohibited' sign.

Come to think of it, the insult itself of the team's existance might be a very good motivator for the players. Can you think of a better "we'll show them" scenario than this?

The insult is more to the countries than to the players. "You're good enough to make this tournament and compete... too most of the best players in your country aren't."

 

[Frank the Tank]

Actually, the issue reaches further than that. If the IIHF waits for those precious few weeks, it's been two to three months since most players from various European leagues have played any competitive games.

Besides, the WHC has gradually been pushed further over the last few years. Ten years ago, the tournament used to start in early April. Its current timing is a compromise between having a reasonable amount of NHLers available vs. not having the players in Europe be out of shape.

Funny how some people seem to think that the NHL is the only hockey league in the world...

Well, after the playoffs there's the draft, and maybe someone (projected top5 pick from an emerging country like Norway, which could use him at the WHC) can't attend both, so maybe we should schedule the WHC to August, i've heard Qatar has some nice rinks.

Ever thought that the IIHF can't wait forever for one single league, which is causing trouble as soon as it hears the word "international" anyway, even if it is it's own bloody tournament?

Also, they don't maximize profits by catering to any fan, but with sometimes ridiculous ticket prices (the host country, to be precise)

My point was not that the IIHF should wait for the NHL playoffs to finish. Instead, the point remains that each organization, IIHF included, schedules their events and chooses the tournament format to make themselves money.

No event is held purely for the benefit of the game of hockey. There are financial motives that are considered by all organizations, and to single out the NHL as the only one interested in a money grab is either naive or disingenuous.

 

[cutchemist42]

My point was not that the IIHF should wait for the NHL playoffs to finish. Instead, the point remains that each organization, IIHF included, schedules their events and chooses the tournament format to make themselves money.

No event is held purely for the benefit of the game of hockey. There are financial motives that are considered by all organizations, and to single out the NHL as the only one interested in a money grab is either naive or disingenuous.

I guess the difference is the IIHF is basically a pass-through organization where the money ends up in a different role. They collect revenue, and pass it down the NTs, in the hopes those NTs then spend the money wisely to promote the game. I can more easily accept the IIHF money grab more easily for that reason, as Hockey Canada gets money.

 

[FiLe]

My point was not that the IIHF should wait for the NHL playoffs to finish. Instead, the point remains that each organization, IIHF included, schedules their events and chooses the tournament format to make themselves money.

How come you completely managed to ignore my point? If the IIHF waits 'til the NHL playoffs end, this tournament will be held in June/July. And since it even then won't feature 100% NHLers, for example the KHLers who have been eliminated from their own playoffs have been fiddling their thumbs since February. And sure as heck won't be in as good as shape as they'll be in early May.

So, let me rephrase... there is a reason the tournament is where it is, and it's not just to do with money. What you're really demanding here is that not just the IIHF, but every damn league on the planet that might send players to the WHC synchronizes itself with the NHL. Good luck with that.

Then there's the little issue that the tournament would be played in the smack dab middle of the summer. Which in most people's minds would be pretty damn odd time to watch hockey, since it's considered a winter sport. (Although in reality it's an indoor sport and could be played at any time of year.)

One way to solve the issue would be making the WHC a season opener, not an event that's suppose to close it down. Play it in early fall. Of course, one issue would be then that it'd be competing for visibility with various other international sporting events any given year, like athletics, basketball, volleyball and (when it's in a place too hot to have it in summer) soccer... and the Olympics.

Like I said, the current timing of the WHC is a compromise with various factors affecting it, not just money. Most of them are pretty evident, if you just stop being an egocentric North American and gander a bit further out than just your own navel. In a perfect world, it'd be a premier event with all the world's best players attending, but that would actually require quite a bit more than one simple calendar retool.

 

[Frank the Tank]

How come you completely managed to ignore my point? If the IIHF waits 'til the NHL playoffs end, this tournament will be held in June/July. And since it even then won't feature 100% NHLers, for example the KHLers who have been eliminated from their own playoffs have been fiddling their thumbs since February. And sure as heck won't be in as good as shape as they'll be in early May.

So, let me rephrase... there is a reason the tournament is where it is, and it's not just to do with money. What you're really demanding here is that not just the IIHF, but every damn league on the planet that might send players to the WHC synchronizes itself with the NHL. Good luck with that.

Then there's the little issue that the tournament would be played in the smack dab middle of the summer. Which in most people's minds would be pretty damn odd time to watch hockey, since it's considered a winter sport. (Although in reality it's an indoor sport and could be played at any time of year.)

One way to solve the issue would be making the WHC a season opener, not an event that's suppose to close it down. Play it in early fall. Of course, one issue would be then that it'd be competing for visibility with various other international sporting events any given year, like athletics, basketball, volleyball and (when it's in a place too hot to have it in summer) soccer... and the Olympics.

Like I said, the current timing of the WHC is a compromise with various factors affecting it, not just money. Most of them are pretty evident, if you just stop being an egocentric North American and gander a bit further out than just your own navel. In a perfect world, it'd be a premier event with all the world's best players attending, but that would actually require quite a bit more than one simple calendar retool.

Speaking of egocentric... quit making this about your agenda. So you admit there are a myriad of concerns, including financial aspects, when planning an international tournament and in the end a non-perfect, compromise solution is often reached? Does the World Cup also fit this description or is purely a "cash grab?"

 

[FiLe]

Speaking of egocentric... quit making this about your agenda. So you admit there are a myriad of concerns, including financial aspects, when planning an international tournament and in the end a non-perfect, compromise solution is often reached? Does the World Cup also fit this description or is purely a "cash grab?"

You're comparing apples and oranges here. The World Cup has not been criticized for timing or financial issues, it's been criticized for breaking the age-old international formula and thus placing players at uneven foundations when entering the tournament.

The issues that get a pass concerning the WHC also get a pass concerning the World Cup, so nobody's on an "agenda" here. Except maybe people who try to (deliberately?) muddle things up. It gets called a "cash grab" because the things the NHL does to maximize its revenue are far more cynical than what the IIHF could ever be accused of. Also, as it's been said, the IIHF actually spreads the wealth around the federations, whereas the World Cup's income will just be used to line the pockets of the greedy suits.

Besides, the World Cup's issues are not even results of reaching any kind of "compromise", because absolutely NOTHING would have hindered them from inviting Slovakia and Switzerland instead of coming up with these two laughable brainfarts. For emphasis: That's not compromising, that's just being greedy and stupid.

 

[varsaku]

My point was not that the IIHF should wait for the NHL playoffs to finish. Instead, the point remains that each organization, IIHF included, schedules their events and chooses the tournament format to make themselves money.

No event is held purely for the benefit of the game of hockey. There are financial motives that are considered by all organizations, and to single out the NHL as the only one interested in a money grab is either naive or disingenuous.

Atleast the IIHF money goes towards helping the federations generate revenue. The World Cup money goes into the pockets of owners and players.

How come you completely managed to ignore my point? If the IIHF waits 'til the NHL playoffs end, this tournament will be held in June/July. And since it even then won't feature 100% NHLers, for example the KHLers who have been eliminated from their own playoffs have been fiddling their thumbs since February. And sure as heck won't be in as good as shape as they'll be in early May.

So, let me rephrase... there is a reason the tournament is where it is, and it's not just to do with money. What you're really demanding here is that not just the IIHF, but every damn league on the planet that might send players to the WHC synchronizes itself with the NHL. Good luck with that.

Then there's the little issue that the tournament would be played in the smack dab middle of the summer. Which in most people's minds would be pretty damn odd time to watch hockey, since it's considered a winter sport. (Although in reality it's an indoor sport and could be played at any time of year.)

One way to solve the issue would be making the WHC a season opener, not an event that's suppose to close it down. Play it in early fall. Of course, one issue would be then that it'd be competing for visibility with various other international sporting events any given year, like athletics, basketball, volleyball and (when it's in a place too hot to have it in summer) soccer... and the Olympics.

Like I said, the current timing of the WHC is a compromise with various factors affecting it, not just money. Most of them are pretty evident, if you just stop being an egocentric North American and gander a bit further out than just your own navel. In a perfect world, it'd be a premier event with all the world's best players attending, but that would actually require quite a bit more than one simple calendar retool.

The NHL playoff already ends really late, if people expect the IIHF to host the world championships after that, no one will watch. During the summer there are alot of things a person can do than stay indoors and watch a game on TV.

 

[Frank the Tank]

You're comparing apples and oranges here. The World Cup has not been criticized for timing or financial issues, it's been criticized for breaking the age-old international formula and thus placing players at uneven foundations when entering the tournament.

It is an alternative attempt by the NHL/NHLPA to achieve high-quality hockey games between all 8 teams. It cannot be compared to the Olympics because it clearly distinguished itself as a different type of tournament. Speaking of which, I think the passive shell play of many teams in Sochi 2014 gets the blame for the exclusion of the lower ranked nations (fairly or not). Unlike Vancouver 2010, the majority of games played at the last Olympics were difficult to watch for anyone outside the two nations playing.

The issues that get a pass concerning the WHC also get a pass concerning the World Cup, so nobody's on an "agenda" here. Except maybe people who try to (deliberately?) muddle things up. It gets called a "cash grab" because the things the NHL does to maximize its revenue are far more cynical than what the IIHF could ever be accused of. Also, as it's been said, the IIHF actually spreads the wealth around the federations, whereas the World Cup's income will just be used to line the pockets of the greedy suits.

The federations are more appropriate beneficiaries of the revenue than the players risking their careers to play in the tournament? Indeed, there are benefits to growing the game through support of national federations, and not every tournament needs to follow that format. In particular, I imagine many Slovak players would not appreciate their efforts on the ice supporting the Slovak Ice Hockey Association and its known corruption?

Besides, the World Cup's issues are not even results of reaching any kind of "compromise", because absolutely NOTHING would have hindered them from inviting Slovakia and Switzerland instead of coming up with these two laughable brainfarts. So that's not "compromising", that's just being greedy and stupid.

Greed is obviously in the eyes of the beholder. When I think greedy, I see an organization like the IOC who exploits countries and athletes to prop up the ego and pocket books of a few elite few IOC members. Why not rally against the Olympics hockey? Or is greed OK as long as the tournament follows the age-old international formula? This World Cup format was obviously a compromise solution to include the likes of Kopitar, Vanek, Zuccarello, etc... and they will be compensated well for their efforts.

 

[FiLe]

It is an alternative attempt by the NHL/NHLPA to achieve high-quality hockey games between all 8 teams. It cannot be compared to the Olympics because it clearly distinguished itself as a different type of tournament. Speaking of which, I think the passive shell play of many teams in Sochi 2014 gets the blame for the exclusion of the lower ranked nations (fairly or not). Unlike Vancouver 2010, the majority of games played at the last Olympics were difficult to watch for anyone outside the two nations playing.

Yet, there is a HUGE question mark concerning the motivation of players called to play for these collection teams, putting this supposed "high-quality hockey" in massive jeopardy. I can understand that good ole' Joe Hockey from Canadian backwoods does not possess the mental acuity to find this an issue, but it's kinda dazzling that the people involved with the development of the league did not see it. Or then they're just banking on Joe just being that stupid.

The federations are more appropriate beneficiaries of the revenue than the players risking their careers to play in the tournament? Indeed, there are benefits to growing the game through support of national federations, and not every tournament needs to follow that format. In particular, I imagine many Slovak players would not appreciate their efforts on the ice supporting the Slovak Ice Hockey Association and its known corruption?

Greed is obviously in the eyes of the beholder. When I think greedy, I see an organization like the IOC who exploits countries and athletes to prop up the ego and pocket books of a few elite few IOC members. Why not rally against the Olympics hockey? Or is greed OK as long as the tournament follows the age-old international formula? This World Cup format was obviously a compromise solution to include the likes of Kopitar, Vanek, Zuccarello, etc... and they will be compensated well for their efforts.

Now, this is a common conversational misdirection tactic. In an attempt to draw the attention away from one set of faults (or justify their existence), the focus is being redirected to another, mostly unrelated set of faults.

Yes, any corruption among the IOC or national federations is an issue, and one that should not just be shrugged away, but once again... how does its existence affect the NHL while making decisions about the World Cup? The answer: Not in any way. Nothing prevents the NHL from running this tournament as a prime example of how things are done. Yet, they decided to make controversial calls, not because the IOC is greedy, but because they alone are greedy. Existence of stupid crap in one organization does not justify the existence of stupid crap in any other. This thread just happens to be about the World Cup.

 

[Frank the Tank]

Yet, there is a HUGE question mark concerning the motivation of players called to play for these collection teams, putting this supposed "high-quality hockey" in massive jeopardy. I can understand that good ole' Joe Hockey from Canadian backwoods does not possess the mental acuity to find this an issue, but it's kinda dazzling that the people involved with the development of the league did not see it. Or then they're just banking on Joe just being that stupid.

Don't know what you are implying with these comments. I'll be blunt, do you think I am Joe Hockey from the Canadian backwoods? I find it disappointing that you cannot debate this issue without attacking those who oppose you.

Now, this is a common conversational misdirection tactic. In an attempt to draw the attention away from one set of faults (or justify their existence), the focus is being redirected to another, mostly unrelated set of faults.

Yes, any corruption among the IOC or national federations is an issue, and one that should not just be shrugged away, but once again... how does its existence affect the NHL while making decisions about the World Cup? The answer: Not in any way. And existence of stupid crap in one organization does not justify the existence of stupid crap in any other. This thread just happens to be about the World Cup. If you feel the need discuss the IOC and what should be done, I'm sure the people running this forum allow you to open such discussion.

Hence why I keep on pointing out why is it that people only get their undies in a bunch when the NHL/NHLPA is pocketing the cash from an international event. You keep trying to expand the argument, and it is irrelevant to my original point. There is no misdirection involved. Just a simple question - why can only the IOC and IIHF profit from international hockey, when, indeed, they rely on the charity of the NHL to host their premiere events?

 

[saillias]

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/nhl-announces-world-cup-of-hockey-for-2016-1.2930670



What part of "No IIHF support yet" didn't you see in my post?

If so, then why have the tournament now at all? Get the proper international bodies on board and then go ahead with it. Until then it feels like a rushed cash-cow gimmick.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Who the **** is going to cheer for Team Europe or Team Young Guns? Their respective goal songs should be a chorus of crickets and rolling tumbleweeds.

I used to love the old Canada Cups but these two teams make the whole thing a farce.

 

[FiLe]

Don't know what you are implying with these comments. I'll be blunt, do you think I am Joe Hockey from the Canadian backwoods? I find it disappointing that you cannot debate this issue without attacking those who oppose you.

Shouldn't you be happy that thus far I've been bashing a common stereotype instead of any actual participant? And I don't intend to veer from that in the future either, since I think it's against the forum rules.

For the record though, I'm angry to the people who came up with this farce, not to those who buy into it and think it's a good idea. For them, I mostly feel sorry.

Hence why I keep on pointing out why is it that people only get their undies in a bunch when the NHL/NHLPA is pocketing the cash from an international event. You keep trying to expand the argument, and it is irrelevant to my original point. There is no misdirection involved. Just a simple question - why can only the IOC and IIHF profit from international hockey, when, indeed, they rely on the charity of the NHL to host their premiere events?

A simple reason why the NHL gets bashed about being greedy as opposed to the IOC getting away with it, is that the former is pretty god damn blatant about it. And on top of that, the NHL decided to bring in two joke teams into their tournament, which is still the main issue here (and no issue at all in the olympics), turning this whole talk about corruption into a sideshow.