CBJWerenski8
Rest in Peace Johnny
- Jun 13, 2009
- 43,696
- 26,737
Speculation: Prospal's play and the gentleman's agreement
- Thread starter jdhebner
- Start date
It's higher on my list. It's higher than signing Bob to 5 million plus a year contract, but it's not higher than signing Bob to a 3 million a year contract.
Than they can decide what to do with that 2 million.
I hope that's clear.
I can guarantee you that the #1 priority is:
WINNING
That means have a winning draft (TBD at a later date), sign or acquire two top six wingers (upgrade over Vinny), get the contracts for Bob and Arty done, then fill holes tha might include re-signing Vinny. Again, I have no problem with Vinny here, I just don't want it at the expense of an upgrade over him. The same might be said for Umberger too.
WINNING
That means have a winning draft (TBD at a later date), sign or acquire two top six wingers (upgrade over Vinny), get the contracts for Bob and Arty done, then fill holes tha might include re-signing Vinny. Again, I have no problem with Vinny here, I just don't want it at the expense of an upgrade over him. The same might be said for Umberger too.
Vinny Prospal has done a lot for and meant a great deal to the CBJ. He is correct when he says that when the times were dark he stayed with the team and I don't think there isn't a fan that doesn't appreciate that. He has been instrumental in the turnaround of the room, indeed the attitude and character of the team. He was the first to call out others for a lack of effort and has been a leader of the revival since. I for one would love to have him back.
But
Let's also remember that when Vinny initially signed, as a result of the Huselius injury, he didn't have a job. He was an overage vet with fair to good skills looking for a situation just like what got him to the CBJ. No one was knocking on his door wheeling a barrel of money up to sign him. I really don't mean to disparage him, his skills or what he has brought to the CBJ, I just want to provide a little counterpoint.
Most posters here recognize what Vinny has brought to and has meant to this organization but let's also remember he is 38 going on 39 and facing a full 82 game season. Does he really have the legs left, especially after a truncated, balls to the walls season like everyone just went through. I have said it before, I would really hate to see Vinny up for one too many seasons, and everyone wish he hadn't.
There is also the roster consideration, there are only so many slots. The organization has to consider/weigh each and every one, balance the potential of each and every candidate for each and every slot and unfortunately there has to be a linear progression to it. How much does Bob Sign for how much do we have left? How much does Arty sign for? if we trade a pick and a player, how much does he cost, less how much the traded roster spot earns? Now where is the cap line. a reserve for call ups etc. has to be considered. Does Murray make the team? and so on and so on. each and every move is effected by the preceding, and affects the following one.
It is not a simple matter of would we like to have Vinny back.
But
Let's also remember that when Vinny initially signed, as a result of the Huselius injury, he didn't have a job. He was an overage vet with fair to good skills looking for a situation just like what got him to the CBJ. No one was knocking on his door wheeling a barrel of money up to sign him. I really don't mean to disparage him, his skills or what he has brought to the CBJ, I just want to provide a little counterpoint.
Most posters here recognize what Vinny has brought to and has meant to this organization but let's also remember he is 38 going on 39 and facing a full 82 game season. Does he really have the legs left, especially after a truncated, balls to the walls season like everyone just went through. I have said it before, I would really hate to see Vinny up for one too many seasons, and everyone wish he hadn't.
There is also the roster consideration, there are only so many slots. The organization has to consider/weigh each and every one, balance the potential of each and every candidate for each and every slot and unfortunately there has to be a linear progression to it. How much does Bob Sign for how much do we have left? How much does Arty sign for? if we trade a pick and a player, how much does he cost, less how much the traded roster spot earns? Now where is the cap line. a reserve for call ups etc. has to be considered. Does Murray make the team? and so on and so on. each and every move is effected by the preceding, and affects the following one.
It is not a simple matter of would we like to have Vinny back.
Xoggz22
Registered User
I could understand that. My point would be that Bob's contract ($10MM or $1MM) will help decide several other factors going forward. As will Arty, the draft, etc. I can't begin to imagine what the Bob negotiations are like. It's a very odd year with the short season...
Dan from The Cannon weighs in:
http://www.jacketscannon.com/2013/6...spal-contract-blue-jackets-bobrovsky-anisimov
Pretty good overview of the situation and very much like the pros and cons being discussed here.
http://www.jacketscannon.com/2013/6...spal-contract-blue-jackets-bobrovsky-anisimov
Pretty good overview of the situation and very much like the pros and cons being discussed here.
I think you're diminishing Prospal a bit in this post. I get your points, but let's remember we're talking about last year's leading scorer. That, plus his leadership/intangibles (and loyalty) make imagining an upgrade more of a challenge. There are other pressing matters, but I'm don't agree that re-signing Prospal is a "C" move or whatever.
Who's saying that?
I don't get this thing where the people who want Prospal to resign are considered sentimentalists and simpletons willing to burn a roster spot for a well-liked fella and are not considering things like the number of available roster spots. Or that re-signing Prospal somehow doesn't acknowledge all the things you're talking about in your last paragraph. I think you can argue the merits of Vinny Prospal apart from his position in the hearts of fans and come away thinking he'd be a good signing.
There have been a number of posts that have wondered why he hasn't been signed. That it should be an easy deal, he wants to be here we, want to have him. My point is it's not that simple.
And yes you can argue his merits, not just sentimentality, that is also my point. You can not make that judgement it a vacuum. His signing may be contingent on another trade/signing that improves the team but that precludes signing Vinny. Should that projected/planned trade/signing not happen then Vinny may well be the best option. And that trade may be dependent on who is or isn't available at a particular point in the draft.
All I'm saying is that it's not a simple yea/nay situation. Too many variables that we as fans/posters might simply not be aware of. And just like dominoes, the first one has to happen before the second can fall before the third one can.... Etc.
I would like to see Vinny back for a lot of reasons, I'm just not sure if it's the best thing and I don't know enough to make that choice at this point and may never have that information.
Or are they doing this to piss him off? When they then do sign him, we can sit back and enjoy the popcorn as he "shoves it up to their ......"
Xoggz22
Registered User
I'm not diminishing Vinny at all. He was the leading scorer on one of the lowest scoring teams in the league. He's a solid player who has value but he's also nearing 40 and only going to slow down. that's the reality. Doesn't mean he couldn't be a fit but there are far more pressing needs. Vinny is not at the top of the list. Just my opinion and we've all debated how we would want the situation handled. I like him and would be happy if he returned but I also know that Columbus isn't a team that can afford to pay someone $15+MM to NOT play for us (RJ or Wiz or whatever buyout people think we should do).
We'll see what happens. I still peg Bob, Arty and handling the draft/trades prior to July 5th as a much higher priority. I know that some don't agree and that's OK.
FANonymous
Registered User
- Nov 7, 2010
- 4,911
- 0
Xoggz22
Registered User
We'll have to agree to disagree. RJ is not worth his salary at this point (especially the last two years) but his play in the 2nd half was very solid in my opinion. I get the no points thing but his overall play wasn't that of a missing person. Again, just my opinion and that doesn't equate to a $4.5MM player. Bad contract right now but I'm not willing to throw in the towel at the sum it would take to do it. Not on a budget team that's been losing money....
This
I don't think we can dismiss his presence on and off the ice, nor do I believe there won't be a place for him on this team.
Crede777
Deputized
- Dec 16, 2009
- 14,841
- 4,558
What's he going to diminish to? Our 2nd highest scorer? 3rd? Even then it's worth having him on the team. That's not to mention the impact he has in terms of leadership and potentially player development/coaching.
He wants to be here. He was our leading scorer last year. We shouldn't have to break the bank to keep him. He agreed to play it year by year on one year contracts. That's good enough for me.
Worst case scenario? He completely sucks a la Modin and we trade him for a pick at the deadline to a contender. Even in that scenario the team only has to pay part of his contract. He comes back in the offseason and has a staff position.
Seriously seems like a low risk move unless he wants to get paid north of $3.5 million. Why piss the guy off? If $2.5 million is that important, I really want to see what they have planned because, what, he wants to re-sign Bob at $8 million per and trade for Malkin...? What?
Hey, hey Gaborik! You know your friend who you consulted before agreeing to come here? You know the guy who played on your line and you had pretty good chemistry with? Yeah, that guy. He wanted to come back so you know what we told him? We told him to go screw himself! Hah, isn't that fun...hey where are you going? Wait no come back we gave up a lot for you!
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Nanabijou
Booooooooooone
Vinny probably has the most respect across the CBJ fanbase compared to any other player. There's no question he has been worth every penny paid the last couple of years. There doesn't seem to be anybody here who wants him gone per se. There's just difference of opinion on what the priority level is for his re-signing (and on his contact amount).
I don't think the issue is cap space. The issue is roster space. Anisimov is clearly a higher priority for Jarmo in resigning. Assuming he gets re-signed, here's the forwards we have under contract next year (the exact lines not that important):
Dubinsky (4.2 M) - Anisimov (??) - Gaborik (7.5 M)
Umberger (4.6 M) - Johansen (1.9 M) - Atkinson (1.2 M)
Foligno (3 M) - Letestu (1.3 M) - Calvert (1 M)
? - MacKenzie (1 M) - Boll (1 M)
I'm not opposed to Vinny filling in that open gap on LW (with Calvert maybe moving down a line and VP being on the 2nd or 3rd line), but is there a better option out there? We need better offense - do we just want to hope that we'll get improved scoring if we roll with essentially the same forwards?
If Jarmo thought there might be a top 6 player available at the draft for one of our first round picks, I can see why he's waiting to commit to Vinny. Or maybe a trade could be worked out that frees up a spot (Umberger?) but this would not likely happen until the draft at the earliest. From an asset utilization point of view, we have alot of money tied up in 3 left wingers (if we count Dubi) already.
Bottom line is that Jarmo has pretty good flexibility right now to pounce if a team is looking to shed a good player due to salary concerns. I'd like him to not piss Vinny off, but the gamble that Vinny walks is clearly a risk he's willing to take. I imagine he feels that Vinny is not as essential to the culture change as he was 2 years ago, with guys like Dubi and JJ taking the reins.
This is a roundabout post stating that I'd like to see Vinny back, but I understand why Jarmo is waiting. I am OK with the worst case scenario that no trades happen, we lose Vinny, and we have to fill that last spot in free agency with someone else (or Boone Jenner earns a spot and DMac switches to wing) as the reward of the best case scenario (land a young top 6 forward for picks/prospects) is enticing and at least seems possible this year.
I don't think the issue is cap space. The issue is roster space. Anisimov is clearly a higher priority for Jarmo in resigning. Assuming he gets re-signed, here's the forwards we have under contract next year (the exact lines not that important):
Dubinsky (4.2 M) - Anisimov (??) - Gaborik (7.5 M)
Umberger (4.6 M) - Johansen (1.9 M) - Atkinson (1.2 M)
Foligno (3 M) - Letestu (1.3 M) - Calvert (1 M)
? - MacKenzie (1 M) - Boll (1 M)
I'm not opposed to Vinny filling in that open gap on LW (with Calvert maybe moving down a line and VP being on the 2nd or 3rd line), but is there a better option out there? We need better offense - do we just want to hope that we'll get improved scoring if we roll with essentially the same forwards?
If Jarmo thought there might be a top 6 player available at the draft for one of our first round picks, I can see why he's waiting to commit to Vinny. Or maybe a trade could be worked out that frees up a spot (Umberger?) but this would not likely happen until the draft at the earliest. From an asset utilization point of view, we have alot of money tied up in 3 left wingers (if we count Dubi) already.
Bottom line is that Jarmo has pretty good flexibility right now to pounce if a team is looking to shed a good player due to salary concerns. I'd like him to not piss Vinny off, but the gamble that Vinny walks is clearly a risk he's willing to take. I imagine he feels that Vinny is not as essential to the culture change as he was 2 years ago, with guys like Dubi and JJ taking the reins.
This is a roundabout post stating that I'd like to see Vinny back, but I understand why Jarmo is waiting. I am OK with the worst case scenario that no trades happen, we lose Vinny, and we have to fill that last spot in free agency with someone else (or Boone Jenner earns a spot and DMac switches to wing) as the reward of the best case scenario (land a young top 6 forward for picks/prospects) is enticing and at least seems possible this year.
I expect Gaborik, Anisimov, Calvert, Foligno, Akinson, Letestu, Johanson, Dubinski AND Umberger to score more than Prospal next season.
EspenK
Registered User
- Sep 25, 2011
- 15,842
- 4,445
if he doesn't play I think you're right. Otherwise I'll take a piece of the action. Or are you adding them together?
if he doesn't play I think you're right. Otherwise I'll take a piece of the action. Or are you adding them together?
I really wouldn't be surprised to see a few of those players to surpass him. Dubinsky if he can stay healthy same goes for Atkinson. Anisimov on a good year and I think Foligno has a breakout season.
IBleedUnionBlue
Registered User
- Aug 16, 2009
- 2,143
- 0
Just my 2 cents, it's fruitless to list forward lines and say why Prospal doesn't fit while listing a bunch of left wingers who couldn't carry Prospal jock strap last year. This roster will be renovated this week and some of those wingers won't be here as soon as even next Sunday. Wouldn't be surprised if Johansen is sent packing soon too.
CBJSprague24
"Scoreboard, son."
The more I think about it, the more I'm intrigued to see what goes down at the Draft. Not bringing back Vinny right away seems to indicate there may be something bigger brewing, which could even open up a spot for him if somebody gets shipped out in the process. This could be fun.
Plus, there's this:
Plus, there's this:
