Speculation: Prospal's play and the gentleman's agreement

[Mayor Bee]

What approach do you see them to have taken? I believe they're in contract negotiations with representatives of both Bob and AA. All they've said about Vinny is that they want to wait until they see where they are after the draft before deciding how to proceed with him. It appears to me that some here want a fan favorite resigned immediately, no matter how it impacts the team. That isn't prudent asset management. If Vinny returns, I want it to be because it's been determined that he's the best option available for that team slot. That's how teams win championships.

Nor do I feel it prudent to put the cart before the horse. We've seen how many times in team history where a young player is penciled into the lineup, whether he's ready for full-time duty or not.

Right now, there are 10 forwards on the roster under contract. 2 more are RFAs pending qualification, and 3 are UFAs. In the system, I don't think there's anyone who we can definitely say is ready for action, and certainly no one who's been able to stick in the NHL to this point yet.

(I'll say this. If I were in Prospal's position and were basically being told to wait and see what happens, I'd hit free agency. And if every attempt to upgrade the roster failed and I were called on July 15 and asked to come back, I'd kindly tell the team to piss up a rope and then sign elsewhere. I'd rather play for the league minimum. And I'm normally the logical one here.)

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I'm not of the opinion the JD and Keklu (still not completely comfortable with that, but...) are incapable of mistakes, I'd just like to have an actual action taken before I start picking at them. That's just me, I suppose.

Agreed, but I think their inactivity on this front, should one believe there should have been some activity, is fair game for "picking."

What approach do you see them to have taken? I believe they're in contract negotiations with representatives of both Bob and AA. All they've said about Vinny is that they want to wait until they see where they are after the draft before deciding how to proceed with him. It appears to me that some here want a fan favorite resigned immediately, no matter how it impacts the team. That isn't prudent asset management. If Vinny returns, I want it to be because it's been determined that he's the best option available for that team slot. That's how teams win championships.

'Fan favorite' implies there is insignificant other reason to bring him back. I disagree. Management seems to be taking a wait-and-see approach. I'd prefer they sign what I believe is an important player. I'm aware of the contracts/roster and don't think it matters. Regardless of who else is on the roster, it's better with Vinny on it.

 

[pete goegan]

Agreed, but I think their inactivity on this front, should one believe there should have been some activity, is fair game for "picking."

Yes, you're right, that's fair.

'Fan favorite' implies there is insignificant other reason to bring him back. I disagree. Management seems to be taking a wait-and-see approach. I'd prefer they sign what I believe is an important player. I'm aware of the contracts/roster and don't think it matters. Regardless of who else is on the roster, it's better with Vinny on it.

Rick Nash was a fan favorite, so I don't agree with the inference you've drawn. Vinny is not a fan favorite without value, but I don't agree that the team cannot possibly be better without him. If the Jackets can be better without Nash, they can certainly be better without Prospal. If he returns, I want it to be because management agrees with you. To this point, that remains unclear.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Yes, you're right, that's fair.



Rick Nash was a fan favorite, so I don't agree with the inference you've drawn. Vinny is not a fan favorite without value, but I don't agree that the team cannot possibly be better without him. If the Jackets can be better without Nash, they can certainly be better without Prospal. If he returns, I want it to be because management agrees with you. To this point, that remains unclear.

Fair enough on the Nash thin, although I don't find the two situations at all comparable, so I'll drop that part.

If Vinny returns, it will indeed be because management agrees with me (and others). Of that, there is little question. If he does not return, and if the reason we are given is that there was not room on the roster or it didn't fit with the budget (in either case, because of new players added or any other reason), I will disagree with it.

 

[pete goegan]

Briefly (and then I'll drop it, as well), my point was that "fan favorite," as applied to both Nash and Prospal, clearly did not imply a lack of value. Also, if we believe this years team improved after trading it's best player, it is not impossible that it could be better, next year, without this year's leading scorer.

 

[db2011]

What approach do you see them to have taken? I believe they're in contract negotiations with representatives of both Bob and AA. All they've said about Vinny is that they want to wait until they see where they are after the draft before deciding how to proceed with him. It appears to me that some here want a fan favorite resigned immediately, no matter how it impacts the team. That isn't prudent asset management. If Vinny returns, I want it to be because it's been determined that he's the best option available for that team slot. That's how teams win championships.

I'm not trying to pick on you, PG. BUT teams win championships in lots of ways. And you can't find a better, more valuable player in the league who wants to play for the Jackets. Teams also win championships with guys like that.

edit: and I meant to address your Nash comparison. Because your assertion that fans want a fan favorite signed damn the consequences is what I'm trying to dispel- he's a heckuva valuable player! But what I really wanted to say is, Nash stopped being a fan favorite of this guy the minute he asked out; not comparable to Prospal. And given Nash's play/performance, it's not a huge surprise that the Jackets are doing better without him (or that the Rangers underwhelmed with him and his 3 point playoff performance).

 

[Crede777]

(I'll say this. If I were in Prospal's position and were basically being told to wait and see what happens, I'd hit free agency. And if every attempt to upgrade the roster failed and I were called on July 15 and asked to come back, I'd kindly tell the team to piss up a rope and then sign elsewhere. I'd rather play for the league minimum. And I'm normally the logical one here.)

This.
And This:

If Vinny returns, it will indeed be because management agrees with me (and others). Of that, there is little question. If he does not return, and if the reason we are given is that there was not room on the roster or it didn't fit with the budget (in either case, because of new players added or any other reason), I will disagree with it.

Simply by telling him "wait and see" you risk losing him which is unwise. Keep him on your side until it becomes absolutely certain you don't need him. Again, there are plenty of players who you could argue deserve the boot. Prospal isn't one. If you want to open up a roster spot, let someone go who isn't performing up to expectations.

If he wants a 3 year $4.25 million contract that's one thing. If he only wants to be re-signed for a year and then wants to coach or scout after, that's entirely different.

He's a guy who is specifically looking for stability and thought he had found it in Columbus. He gave a lot to the team for relatively little back. To say "sorry, we aren't going to honor that informal agreement from a past regime" and "business is business," then that is the type of approach I am against. If you act like you have all of the negotiating chips, if you don't meet the players halfway, then you are going to alienate a lot of people.

JK and JD needs to realize that the players are the ones with most of the leverage. They need to get 3 guys signed no matter what in my opinion; Bobrovsky, Anisimov, and Prospal. Even if you are like a pig at a trough, you can't let those guys walk.

 

[EspenK]

This.
And This:


Simply by telling him "wait and see" you risk losing him which is unwise. Keep him on your side until it becomes absolutely certain you don't need him. Again, there are plenty of players who you could argue deserve the boot. Prospal isn't one. If you want to open up a roster spot, let someone go who isn't performing up to expectations.

Other than Umby who is going to go? I'm assuming Gilles & Comeau are goners

If he wants a 3 year $4.25 million contract that's one thing. If he only wants to be re-signed for a year and then wants to coach or scout after, that's entirely different.

He's a guy who is specifically looking for stability and thought he had found it in Columbus. He gave a lot to the team for relatively little back. To say "sorry, we aren't going to honor that informal agreement from a past regime" and "business is business," then that is the type of approach I am against. If you act like you have all of the negotiating chips, if you don't meet the players halfway, then you are going to alienate a lot of people.

JK and JD needs to realize that the players are the ones with most of the leverage. They need to get 3 guys signed no matter what in my opinion; Bobrovsky, Anisimov, and Prospal. Even if you are like a pig at a trough, you can't let those guys walk

I'd say Bob is pretty much a have to. The other 2 not so much and I'd sign AA before Vinnie. Looking to the future beyond next season not the upcoming and the past.

Comments in bold

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Briefly (and then I'll drop it, as well), my point was that "fan favorite," as applied to both Nash and Prospal, clearly did not imply a lack of value. Also, if we believe this years team improved after trading it's best player, it is not impossible that it could be better, next year, without this year's leading scorer.

1) Fails to take into consideration any factor save that they were the team's leading scorers the past two seasons. I could just as easily say "the team will be OK without Colton Gillies next year because look what happened this season when they didn't have their prior season's 6'4" 215 pound winger drafted high in his draft year." (Not that people needs convinced it'll be OK if Colton isn't brought back, mind you. I'm hoping that helps make my point rather than hurts.)

2) I never argued that Prospal should be brought back because he was last season's leading scorer.

Comments in bold

Well, I guess I thought it possible to look to the future of both the coming season and beyond, but you're saying it's not, then?

 

[Xoggz22]

As fans we probably know very little of what's really gone on with the Vinny situation. I'll stand by my comments that I like Vinny and wouldn't mind him back but don't see him as a high priority as some of you do. Just my opinion.

However, maybe this has been brought up already, what if JK and JD were informed they were not permitted to initiate any compliance buyouts because ownership isn't in a position to support that kind of cash flow? Some have argued we should use the compliance buyouts because Vinny is likely to provide more value than others (not going to agree or disagree). You are probably correct but if the team is unwilling to buy anyone out, there are inherently fewer spots available and if the hope is to add a player like Boone Jenner (just an example) or someone via trade with a 1st, Vinny's spot is likely the one that is going to be used unless others are moved. Vinny isn't likely to replace Gaborik, Atkinson, Calvert, Foligno or Umberger (see reason above) on the wing. He doesn't play center so you can add Johansen, Dubinsky (C/W), Anisimov and Letestu to the list he won't likely replace. I don't see MacKenzie or Boll as options to replace (roll players that seem established with their current role and Vinny doesn't replace either with their role). That's 11 forwards that, without any trades are on 1 way deals and unlikely to be sent to the minors.

I'm not arguing value here, simply a numbers game and if we want to increase scoring while adding a "long term piece" that appears to put Vinny's spot in jeopardy. Personally, I see Calvert and Umberger as 3rd line wings right now. Which opens up a top 6 position (although Foligno would need to really step up). Atkinson, Gaborik and Foligno could fill in top 6 wings and go add another via trade. Now you're looking for a depth/bench guy. Fine if that's Vinny but I don't see him coming off the bench. I think he wants to play or be done, not be #13 on the forward list.

 

[Nordique]

As fans we probably know very little of what's really gone on with the Vinny situation. I'll stand by my comments that I like Vinny and wouldn't mind him back but don't see him as a high priority as some of you do. Just my opinion.

My friend, this is the center of hockey intelligence, how dare you suggest otherwise. I agree there are likely pieces in motion we are unaware of, but speculation is more entertaining than work atm.

 

[pete goegan]

My friend, this is the center of hockey intelligence, how dare you suggest otherwise. I agree there are likely pieces in motion we are unaware of, but speculation is more entertaining than work atm.

If, by "hockey intelligence" you mean SWAG, you may have something there.

 

[pete goegan]

Here's a quote from a recent interview:

Kekalainen said. "I think we have a good group of guys, good chemistry in the room. The team had some success with this chemistry and this lineup that we had here, so I think that’s something you don’t want to really touch or tinker or fix if it’s not broken."

That might seem to indicate that Prospal's contributions, off the ice, are not unappreciated.

Here's the link, several interesting comments regarding the upcoming draft, etc.:

http://bluejackets.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=675277&navid=DL|CBJ|home

 

[Xoggz22]

My friend, this is the center of hockey intelligence, how dare you suggest otherwise. I agree there are likely pieces in motion we are unaware of, but speculation is more entertaining than work atm.

How dare you call me "Friend"...

 

[IBleedUnionBlue]

It was speculated by AP that the CBJ might trade some pics for immediate help, specifically some guys that can score goals. Since that didnt happen, I wonder if that makes it more likely that the CBJ reaches out to Prospal sometime this week and try to resign one of the Jackets top goal scorers that last 2 seasons. ?

I hope so.

 

[NotWendell]

I think we'll make a trade for a legit NHL winger before the season starts, but that still leaves room for Vinny.

 

[Nanabijou]

I think the odds have improved for Vinny's return, provided he is still interested.

 

[General Jacket70]

I think the odds have improved for Vinny's return, provided he is still interested.

Good point. The lack of trades at the draft and the players drafted themselves did nothing to diminsh his chances. But the offseason's still young. . .

 

[jdhebner]

I sure as heck hope so.

 

[JacketsDavid]

Since our roster didn't change much yesterday, I assume we'll finalize something with BOB then start working on Vinny with a 1 year deal.
I could be wrong and maybe teams will be giving away top 6 wingers (due to salary cap) but I'm guessing I won't be overwhelmed with any additions unless an injury occurs. Probably sign a 3rd/4th line forward or two for depth I'm assuming.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Since our roster didn't change much yesterday, I assume we'll finalize something with BOB then start working on Vinny with a 1 year deal.
I could be wrong and maybe teams will be giving away top 6 wingers (due to salary cap) but I'm guessing I won't be overwhelmed with any additions unless an injury occurs. Probably sign a 3rd/4th line forward or two for depth I'm assuming.

Roster is going to change on or by July 5th. Vinny is going to have to wait a while. Just because we didn't make moves at the draft doesn't mean the offseason is over, plenty to go boys.

 

[Nordique]

Since our roster didn't change much yesterday, I assume we'll finalize something with BOB then start working on Vinny with a 1 year deal.
I could be wrong and maybe teams will be giving away top 6 wingers (due to salary cap) but I'm guessing I won't be overwhelmed with any additions unless an injury occurs. Probably sign a 3rd/4th line forward or two for depth I'm assuming.

My fingers are crossed.

I think most of the low hanging fruit in terms of trades has now been picked. We still have free agency coming up, though I don't see alot of good fits there either. I don't think we'll have alot of fa cash to toss around when the Bob numbers are finalized. Vinny is a good option, very affordable, loved by the fans and players and you know exactly what he'll bring to the ice.

 

[Kev22]

Color me skeptical about trades. If we weren't willing to pay the price at the draft, the prices are probably not going to change, I'm not sure we're willing to pay the price afterwards. Yesterday was the perfect opportunity to show the rest of the league Columbus means business and from that standpoint, it was a failure. I'm not talking about the players drafted, from all accounts we had a great draft, I'm talking about what wasn't done. It was disappointing in my book. I think we're looking at going to the market and that is usually not good news. I would think this increases Vinny's chances of being back with the club next season.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

The way i figure it, there is a roster spot available for a new scoring winger (via free agency or through trade) and Prospal.

I try not to do too much math so (in my scenario anyway where there is a desire to bring Vinny back and a place in the lineup for him) I would guess then the next question would be how much is it going to cost? So the FO would have to wait until Bob gets signed and then figure out a plan WRT the new forward so it would know whether Vinny would accept what they're willing top offer.

 

[blahblah]

Color me skeptical about trades. If we weren't willing to pay the price at the draft, the prices are probably not going to change, I'm not sure we're willing to pay the price afterwards.

That assumes that the issue with the potential deals was a team unwilling to pay the price. Vancouver indicated there was strong interest in Edler and wanted to see what other offers he could get moving forward. Not sure how true that is, since he's been trying to dump Luongo for a while now with no luck, but there you go.