Pronger...

[ProngerRocks]

Like another poster said, you need to score to win games. I don't recall any of that happening in the last two games....anyone? Just maybe we are pointing our blame in the wrong direction?

further to you point - if the games ended 3-2 in canada's favor EVEN with the poor play of players being pointed out - we would not have these threads.


people have to realize players/teams who start of good in these tournaments more than often sees their play decline throughout the tournament - especially when their are so many teams who can play with each other. players/teams that struggle more than often see their level of player increase

 

[hockeyfan125]

You.ve got to be kidding. Testing people who back out? It's everyones friggin' right to say 'I'm not playing', Doesn't matter what the reason is.

I guess it came out wrong, I just mean that if players can back-out at will, then teams should have the right to withhold players (ie Oilers with Pronger), which again is opening an entire other can of worms, because what if Pronger wants to play, then we have a dispute... I just feel it would be much easier for the NHL to completely avoid the Olympics.

 

[Towmater14]

You are correct, when the team can't break out of teh zone to save their bloody lives... the blame go to the d-men and the forwards.

1) Whomever carrying the puck through the neutral zone has NO puck support. The guy is always 1 on 2 and trying to move through the zone

2) There's always 4 opposing sweaters in the neutral zone

3) Therefore: Dump, chase, dig, repeat.

This is not aimed at Pronger but at all Team Canada players (there's a few guys that's doing dirty work): STOP TRYING TO CARRY THROUGH THE TRAP

Dump, chase, dig, repeat. That's how they're beating you.

I agree and Finland was doing a great job of doing that. Again team Canada needs to gel as a team and not a bunch of individuals with something to prove by the name that they have on there back. I don't care how talented you are, the D that Finland showed(trap) you have to be pretty remarkable to bust though that.

 

[Towmater14]

further to you point - if the games ended 3-2 in canada's favor EVEN with the poor play of players being pointed out - we would not have these threads.


people have to realize players/teams who start of good in these tournaments more than often sees their play decline throughout the tournament - especially when their are so many teams who can play with each other. players/teams that struggle more than often see their level of player increase

I hate Iginla, just because he plays for Calgary, but I would love to have him on my home team. Where has he been? Thornton? They guys I think have made the most impact (Big Burt and Nash) are the ones who seem to really be hated on.

 

[ProngerRocks]

I hate Iginla, just because he plays for Calgary, but I would love to have him on my home team. Where has he been? Thornton? They guys I think have made the most impact (Big Burt and Nash) are the ones who seem to really be hated on.

there could any number of reasons

1. history shows he follows up big years with average years 2001/2002 compared to 2002/2003 and 2003/2004 compared to this year.

2. he is a slow starter - he plays his best hockey the last 30 games of the season - the last 3 games of a playoff series -

3. he is a power foward - guys like iginla and bertuzzi thrived on close checking - obstruction hockey. they needed to be physically challenged and fight through **** like that to be effective - the new nhl took that aspect of their game away. they play their best when they are pissed off.

 

[millions]

You are correct, when the team can't break out of teh zone to save their bloody lives... the blame go to the d-men and the forwards.

1) Whomever carrying the puck through the neutral zone has NO puck support. The guy is always 1 on 2 and trying to move through the zone

2) There's always 4 opposing sweaters in the neutral zone

3) Therefore: Dump, chase, dig, repeat.

This is not aimed at Pronger but at all Team Canada players (there's a few guys that's doing dirty work): STOP TRYING TO CARRY THROUGH THE TRAP

Dump, chase, dig, repeat. That's how they're beating you.

Yes, I brought that up (who you responded to). Can't score, but you so eloquently broke it down and I agree 100%.

BTW Ironchef, you need to move your head so I can see what your cooking...
Smells like a Kobe beef/truffle wrap with a white gold infused champagne while a mad octopus reaches for my face

 

[quat]

I'll write this to you as well. I wish Pronger would have withdrawn from the Olympics like Niedermeyer and I wouldn't have to read this crap of Pronger. He's playhing injured and Fat Quinn is overplaying him. Fat Quinn is playing Pronger 30 minutes a game when Team Canada played 4 games in 5 nights. Pronger or any player for that matter will get tired playing that much. The reason he's been getting penalties is because he's tired from playing so much. In Edmonton, there were times, when they played BTB, Pronger didn't play as much in the second of the BTB games as in the first game. Fat Quinn has another 2 pairings so there's no need to play Pronger 30 minutes. I wouldn't be surprised if after the Olympics are over, Pronger reveals how serious the injury is. The injury can't get any better by playing 30 minutes a game.

Is that really necessary? Fat Quinn? I mean, really. Come up with something a little better.... please!

I agree, it looks very much like Pronger shouldn't be here. He's way slower on his skates than he normally is, and his weak attempt at checking Koivu on the first goal is a testament to this.

That said... the overplaying Pronger is a bit over the top... as both goals were early in the game. The stupid penalties are vintage Pronger under stressful situations. It's how he's always reacted, and I doubt it has anything to do with injury.

Personally, I thought all the defencemen were awful. In fact, I can't remember a poorer showing by a group of Canadain defenceman. No one made decent outlet passes with reguality, and everytime they tried to skate the puck over the centerline, it was a joke. Of course, the forwards couldn't corral a puck if their lives depended on it either.

I've rarely seen players of this calibur hand onto the puck so long because they couldn't find a passing lane. Lot's of forwards standing around the neutral zone waiting for the defence to try and muscle their way through the Finns defensive trap. It looked just bush league.

If I had to give one defenceman a passing grade, it would have to be Blake. He was the only guy who seemed half decent to me. Everyone else played waaaay below their skill level.

There is a lot of room for improvement.

 

[millions]

individuals: do not = team

Gretzkys not God, he's only got 48 hours (well less than that now)

 

[millions]

I hate Iginla, just because he plays for Calgary, but I would love to have him on my home team. Where has he been? Thornton? They guys I think have made the most impact (Big Burt and Nash) are the ones who seem to really be hated on.

See, it's a crap statement like that at the start that makes these boards bad. You explained your stance, but it's not appropriate. If you were walking down the street and you saw him, you would freak. The great thing is that he would probably actually talk to you if approached.

Where would that leave you? With a chestfull of pride that you met THE 'Jerome Iginla'. I know your a fan, but the word hate has no place. Hate how he performs against how your team performs, but never hate the man.

 

[Towmater14]

See, it's a crap statement like that at the start that makes these boards bad. You explained your stance, but it's not appropriate. If you were walking down the street and you saw him, you would freak. The great thing is that he would probably actually talk to you if approached.

Where would that leave you? With a chestfull of pride that you met THE 'Jerome Iginla'. I know your a fan, but the word hate has no place. Hate how he performs against how your team performs, but never hate the man.

That makes this board bad? Sorry, I thought flaming and trolling made this board bad.
Sorry, Don't like very much. Is that better? last year I went to a lot of Red Deer Rebel games and loved Dion Phanuff, Is love to strong? Now he plays for Calgary and I don't like him so sorry the way I feel about that team, and I'm sure that it goes both ways. And no... if I saw Iginla on the street I would not "Freak" I deal with players from the Oilers every week and don't "Freak" and they are my team. Is there something wrong with being passionate?

 

[Egil]

Someone is criticizing Redden for "pinching too much"? What the hell is that, we have trailed for the majority of the last 2 games, nor are we giving up odd man rushes (the penalty for bad pinches). In fact, if all our defense pinched like Redden we would be better off. Pinching hasn't been a problem, our defenders and forwards have done a great job at allowing pinching. Redden is our best pinching defenseman as well.

Anyways, the problem is that we don't have a single player who can create space for himself while handling the puck. Nobody is able to slow the play down and get a defender to move out of position. We have good passing defenseman, but nobody who can rush the puck up the ice. We have good passing forwards, but no puck wizard. We need a guy like Alfredsson or Kovalev who can create space by their puckhandling.

 

[Big Mama*]

He's playhing injured and Fat Quinn is overplaying him. Fat Quinn is playing Pronger 30 minutes a game when Team Canada played 4 games in 5 nights.

Actually, it is Assistant Coach Hitchcock who is changing the defenceman 5 on 5. In an interview he said he was going to ride Pronger, Blake and Niedermayer in the Olympics.

 

[Towmater14]

Someone is criticizing Redden for "pinching too much"? What the hell is that, we have trailed for the majority of the last 2 games, nor are we giving up odd man rushes (the penalty for bad pinches). In fact, if all our defense pinched like Redden we would be better off. Pinching hasn't been a problem, our defenders and forwards have done a great job at allowing pinching. Redden is our best pinching defenseman as well.

Anyways, the problem is that we don't have a single player who can create space for himself while handling the puck. Nobody is able to slow the play down and get a defender to move out of position. We have good passing defenseman, but nobody who can rush the puck up the ice. We have good passing forwards, but no puck wizard. We need a guy like Alfredsson or Kovalev who can create space by their puckhandling.

I agree, It was frustrating, it almost seamed as if Finland was icing twice as many men as we were as they seemed to be everywhere and we couldn't get anywhere. We were outworked and outplayed massively.

 

[tinyzombies]

I wouldn't say he's been awful. He's been mediocre for him.

Losing a board battle to Koivu isn't a shameful thing. Koivu's quick and tenacious and routinely beats larger players on the boards.

 

[Big Mama*]

You have to be willing to make the short quick pass to gain the red line then shoot the puck into the zone. The forwards are leaving too much of a gap between themselves and the defenceman. If you watch McCabe he consistently makes the quick short pass and if he doesn't have it tosses back to the other d-man so he can make the quck pass. The other d aren't throwing the puck between themselves to wait for an opening.

 

[Narnia]

Is that really necessary? Fat Quinn? I mean, really. Come up with something a little better.... please!

I agree, it looks very much like Pronger shouldn't be here. He's way slower on his skates than he normally is, and his weak attempt at checking Koivu on the first goal is a testament to this.

That said... the overplaying Pronger is a bit over the top... as both goals were early in the game. The stupid penalties are vintage Pronger under stressful situations. It's how he's always reacted, and I doubt it has anything to do with injury.

Personally, I thought all the defencemen were awful. In fact, I can't remember a poorer showing by a group of Canadain defenceman. No one made decent outlet passes with reguality, and everytime they tried to skate the puck over the centerline, it was a joke. Of course, the forwards couldn't corral a puck if their lives depended on it either.

I've rarely seen players of this calibur hand onto the puck so long because they couldn't find a passing lane. Lot's of forwards standing around the neutral zone waiting for the defence to try and muscle their way through the Finns defensive trap. It looked just bush league.

If I had to give one defenceman a passing grade, it would have to be Blake. He was the only guy who seemed half decent to me. Everyone else played waaaay below their skill level.

There is a lot of room for improvement.

Being overplayed by Quinn has somethng to do with it. Team Canada played their 4th game in 5 nights. I know it's the same for everyone but under no circumstances should any playing be playing half the game in circumstances like that. This has happened in 3 of Canada's 4 games. Quinn has 3 good defense pairings and he doesn't have to play Pronger and Blake for half the game.

 

[Narnia]

Actually, it is Assistant Coach Hitchcock who is changing the defenceman 5 on 5. In an interview he said he was going to ride Pronger, Blake and Niedermayer in the Olympics.

Thanks but that's ridiculous. Team Canada has 3 defense pairings that can all play 20+ minutes. No need to ride any defensemen for half the game like they're doing with Pronger and Blake.

 

[Big Mama*]

Thanks but that's ridiculous. Team Canada has 3 defense pairings that can all play 20+ minutes. No need to ride any defensemen for half the game like they're doing with Pronger and Blake.

I agree, E-mail Hitchcock. Only two d-men on Team Canada play more than 26 minutes a game. McCabe and Pronger who play over 28 minutes each.

 

[Narnia]

I agree, E-mail Hitchcock. Only two d-men on Team Canada play more than 26 minutes a game. McCabe and Pronger who play over 28 minutes each.

I assume you mean the NHL with this statement. I was worried Pronger would be overplayed when Niedermeyer had to withdraw from the Olympics because of injury. What I don't understand is why are Pronger and Blake being played half the game. How many minutes does McCabe get. Does he even play 10 minutes? The other defensemen are all capable of playing over 20 minutes that Team Canada doesn't have to play the 2 defensemen playing injured for half the game.

 

[Big Mama*]

I assume you mean the NHL with this statement. I was worried Pronger would be overplayed when Niedermeyer had to withdraw from the Olympics because of injury. What I don't understand is why are Pronger and Blake being played half the game. How many minutes does McCabe get. Does he even play 10 minutes? The other defensemen are all capable of playing over 20 minutes that Team Canada doesn't have to play the 2 defensemen playing injured for half the game.

Yes I mean NHL season average. I agree with you. They don't need to play the PP. McCabe is probably getting 5-6 45 second shifts a period during the Olympics.

 

[Narnia]

Yes I mean NHL season average. I agree with you. They don't need to play the PP. McCabe is probably getting 5-6 45 second shifts a period during the Olympics.

That would be approximately 3.75-4.5 minutes per game. WOW. That's not a lot of minutes when Pronger and Blake play half the game on the PP, PK and EV. That is simply stupid on the coaching staff's part.

 

[Big Mama*]

That would be approximately 3.75-4.5 minutes per game. WOW. That's not a lot of minutes when Pronger and Blake play half the game on the PP, PK and EV. That is simply stupid on the coaching staff's part.

3.75-4.5 per period about 10-14 minutes. Not nearly enough if your team is behind by a couple of goals.

 

[aceshigh81]

Was it Pronger who said he has pains, but he can live with them because he wanna play in the olympics? Gotta respect his attitude, but ofcourse it´s bad if he´s not in his best. The big ice added to the strict rules seemed to cause problems against Finland. He couldn´t glue Koivu to the boards.

By the way, what is this thing between Pronger and Selänne? They have had their battles in the past, they had some kind of chat after the game, also.

 

[oil slick]

He's been pretty bad. Mind you, I'm not sure he's been worse than Regehr and McCabe who have both been schooled a few times also. Frankly I think our whole D have been totally weak.

I knew we would miss Niedermeyer, but I didn't think we'd miss him this much.

 

[Phanuthier*]

Was it Pronger who said he has pains, but he can live with them because he wanna play in the olympics? Gotta respect his attitude, but ofcourse it´s bad if he´s not in his best. The big ice added to the strict rules seemed to cause problems against Finland. He couldn´t glue Koivu to the boards.

By the way, what is this thing between Pronger and Selänne? They have had their battles in the past, they had some kind of chat after the game, also.

Selanne: "If it weren't for shootouts, we would be in the playoffs and you wouldn't."
Pronger: "ya... ya... cinderella... HA!"