Speculation: Price to Carolina ?

[Svechhammer]

And I guess the same goes for Evolving Hockey's GSAx model, which ranks Carey Price 6th worst in GSAx over the past 3 seasons.

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lol he's a $10.5m goaltender who is statistically worse than Scott Darling in recent years.

Yikes

 

[GoldiFox]

Why would the Canes trade assets when Holtby is a UFA this offseason? They can (and will most likely) just go after him?

Right?

Holtby, Lehner, Markstrom, Crawford... There are a number of options

 

[Drew311]

Or they could find a good goaltender in free agency that doesn't have a large 7 year contract tied to him.

 

[SpeakingOfTheDevils]

I love how eveybody ****s on Prices contract, yet all know we would have lost Price if Bergevin would have offered $1 less. 25 teams would have offered the same contract if he was a free agent when he signed his contract.

Whatever you say

How many teams needed a #1 goalie at the time? And how many of those teams had the cap flexibility to sign that massive contract?

But, yeah, 25 teams would've offered the same... LOL.

It is a ****ing atrocious contract.

 

[Patagonia]

I expect more of the same as Lundqvist but if Price plays on a contender, his stats will be much better and he gives a team an edge in net. Reasonable to expect up and down years with any player in their 30's.

Only fit I see today is the Avs. They have a complete roster, very few holes to fill, a deep prospect pool, and cap space. However, I can see them trying cheaper goalies in the short term first. Could work or they could be looking for a goalie for years to come.

AVs Cap Space will be used to extend their youngsters to long term deals. Don’t believe they’ll have as much space remaining and absorb a $10M Cap Hit for Price.

The current NHL Goalie Tandem earns less than half of Price combined. Sakic has been focusing on Goalies in recent years and has Annunen for the future.

 

[Frank Drebin]

How do you know that he's been unfocused and pouty for the past couple years? Has Carey told you this himself? Have you been in the locker room with the Canadiens? Has the media reported this? Do you have some sort of way to view alternate timelines, and see exactly how he will perform on every different team in the league?

If not, then I think it's a lot more reasonable to just use Occam's Razor and say that the 32 year a goaltender, who has never been the same since he suffered a major in his age 28 season, might be following the natural aging curve that NHL players follow from the ages of 28-32 and onward, which is significant decline.

I watch the games and know the player. He's been pouty and moody since he broke into the league. Anyways, I don't really care to convince you that he's got good hockey left, I'm sure you feel the same way about Burns and Karlsson, or the entire sharks roster for that matter. Statistics say they suck, so they suck.

 

[Habs Halifax]

He’s certainly not he hasn’t played well the last two seasons

He was the Price we all know down the stretch last year... You put him on a legit playoff team or contender and hold his beer.

It's about confidence in the team in front of him. He's checked out this year and is tired off the Habs inability to ice a contender in front of him. It's clear but most fans going to look at the stats only. It's BS

 

[JoeThorntonsRooster]

extremely stupid way of looking at it just thinks that the facts dont lie that high priced goalies dont get the job done

Except your facts are cherry picked because they completely ignore the fact that the salary cap has increased.

Braden Holtby in 2017-2018 made 8.13% of the cap. That's $6.63M in today's world.

Jean-Sebastian Giguere in 2006-2006 made 9.07% of the cap. That's $7.39M in today's world.

Jonathan Quick in 2013-2014 made 9.02% of the cap. That's $7.35M in today's world.

Corey Crawford in 2014-2015 made 8.7% of the cap. That's $7.09M in today's world.

Marc-Andre Fleury made 8.82% of the cap in 2008-2009, 8.33% of the cap in 2015-2016, and 7.88% of the cap in 2016-2017. That's $7.19M, $6.79M, and $6.42M, in today's world.

Tim Thomas in 2010-2011 made 8.42% of the cap. That's $6.86M in today's world.

That is 8 different times, in the cap era, that a Stanley Cup winning team had a goaltender whose inflation-adjusted cap hit was greater than the $6.1M figure that you provided.

Literally more than half the teams in the cap era had a goalie making a larger percentage of the cap than $6.1M is in today's era. This is why your post was an extremely stupid way of looking at things.

 

[MrazeksVengeance]

lol he's a $10.5m goaltender who is statistically worse than Scott Darling in recent years.

Yikes

They have NO IDEA what this statement truly means.

 

[SML2]

Price does not have one of the worse contracts in the league. He is still considered one of the best and anybody who is impartial, will tell you he is struggling cause the Habs team D sucks this year! No goalie would have good stats with our team D this year.

Price is $1.5M overpaid. You change his teams and he plays on a top 10 team, the story changes overnight and you know it. You act like Price is like Alzner or Lucic. It's comical.

But don't you see that the fact that a top 10 team can even be a top ten team without a guy like Price proves that a guy like Price is a luxury rather than a necessity? Why would I pay a guy 10+ a season to get the same results? If you need to put him on the best teams in order for him to show results, then he is not the game changer you are paying him to be. He's getting paid like he's Dominik Hasek and he's playing like he's Dominic Roussel.

 

[Habs Halifax]

AVs Cap Space will be used to extend their youngsters to long term deals. Don’t believe they’ll have as much space remaining and absorb a $10M Cap Hit for Price.

The current NHL Goalie Tandem earns less than half of Price combined. Sakic has been focusing on Goalies in recent years and has Annunen for the future.

You can drop the $10M cap hit narrative cause everyone knows the Habs will retain to some degree if Price (big if) is traded. I have the retention at $2.5M bringing it down to $8M AAV. If you feel you can win with a $5M or $6M goalie, all the power to you.

Avs have more cap space than that from what I can see. But if they feel they only have $6M for their goalie, that is their prerogative.

 

[mattyboy]

WHAT?????

any deal where a team is retaining any amount for 7 years is horrendous. regardless of return.

 

[JoeThorntonsRooster]

I watch the games and know the player. He's been pouty and moody since he broke into the league. Anyways, I don't really care to convince you that he's got good hockey left, I'm sure you feel the same way about Burns and Karlsson, or the entire sharks roster for that matter. Statistics say they suck, so they suck.

Not that it has anything to do with this thread, but yes, I actually do.

From my own team, I’ll say Brent Burns. Since the start of the 2017-2018 season, he ranks 2nd in points by defensemen, which is pretty incredible when you consider his age. But at even strength over that same sample, Burns’s expected goal +/- impact per 60 minutes of -0.1 is 127th out of the 158 defensemen who have played at least 2,000 minutes. In other words, for every 600 minutes that Burns plays, he’s individually contributing a negative one to your expected goal differential.

And because he’s played so many damn minutes over that sample, Burns has contributed to -6.45 of his team’s expected goal differential. Only 13 defensemen have posted a worse impact over that sample.

And really, regardless of how much faith you place in these stats, this is very reasonable. He was consistently one of the best defensemen on the team, or the very best. Now, he's one of the very worst on the team. Relative to his teammates, he was always a stud, and now he's horrible.

I think people are overlooking the most simple, rational explanation as to why Vlasic has declined. He's 32 years old, and just played in his 1,000th game. The research on aging curves all suggests that in terms of raw impact, hockey players decline a little earlier than conventional wisdom would suggest. Vlasic's peak was from the ages of 21 through 29, with his best season coming at the age of 26, and then he started a pretty sharp decline in his age 29 season, which turned real bad in his age 31 season. Age 31 is a major inflection point for skaters.

Vlasic might be following a bit more of a pronounced aging curve than most NHL players do, but I think he might just suck now. He also came into the league and played a lot of regular season and playoff games at a very young age, which doesn't help either.

When the statistics so clearly paint a picture that a player was once great, but absolutely sucks now - as they do with Price (and with Burns and Vlasic), over as large of a sample as those players have sucked, you can't really ignore them. I mean, you can, but it's not smart.

Now keep this on topic, cause this thread has nothing to do with the Sharks.

 

[Habs Halifax]

But don't you see that the fact that a top 10 team can even be a top ten team without a guy like Price proves that a guy like Price is a luxury rather than a necessity? Why would I pay a guy 10+ a season to get the same results? If you need to put him on the best teams in order for him to show results, then he is not the game changer you are paying him to be. He's getting paid like he's Dominik Hasek and he's playing like he's Dominic Roussel.

Avs don't win a cup with Thibault in net vs Roy. If the Habs trade Price with $2.5M retention (most I would go), $8M AAV is a steal cause the minute he plays on a cup contender he gives them an edge. But if you feel you can win with Holtby for cheaper, go ahead and try. It might work out.

 

[Neutrinos]

I don't believe any team would or should give up a 1st round pick in a deal for Price

 

[JoeThorntonsRooster]

lol he's a $10.5m goaltender who is statistically worse than Scott Darling in recent years.

Yikes

To be fair, that's largely a function of games played. By dFSv%, which ranks them on a per-shot basis as opposed to an aggregate basis, Scott Darling was far, far worse. It's just that he only played 1/3 of the games, lol.

12 months ago (Dec of 18 to Apr of 19) and you think he has decline that much in such a short span? You are not fooling anybody who knows what Price can do when he is on his game. He has checked out cause our team D sucks this year and we had too many injuries and rookies.

The ability he has in net playing on a cup contender is a game changer. Most know this but fans going to be fans and fall for the latest trend.

Price almost got us in the playoffs last year when he stepped up. Ability is not the question mark, putting a team in front of him that he has confidence in is the bigger problem.

Yes, he was decent last season. He also sucked in 2017-2018, and he sucks this year. Why do you think it's a good idea to reduce the sample size and just completely exclude this season? Would you do that if this were anybody other than a player on your favorite team whose tires you're trying to pump? I very much doubt it.

 

[TeddyBare]

I don't believe any team would or should give up a 1st round pick in a deal for Price

Let alone a d-man on a sweetheart deal like Pesce.

Like some people in this thread have suggested.

 

[Habs Halifax]

any deal where a team is retaining any amount for 7 years is horrendous. regardless of return.

It would be for 6 years after this season and retention (prorated for the rest of this season) means nothing to the Habs. We have Primeau who will be on a ELC/Bridge contracts for 5-6 more years. We can sign a guy like Crawford for the short term to shelter him a bit.

Primeau + Crawford + $2.5M retention < Price ($10.5M) and a back up ($1M).

If we didn't have Primeau, We would not be entertaining the idea of trading Price with retention

 

[Nemesis Prime]

I have a legit question,


how can the CArolina win ( in 1-2 years) with Mrazek and Reimer ?

I mean, Price has done an excellent job bringing a cup to Montreal.

 

[Habs Halifax]

To be fair, that's largely a function of games played. By dFSv%, which ranks them on a per-shot basis as opposed to an aggregate basis, Scott Darling was far, far worse. It's just that he only played 1/3 of the games, lol.



Yes, he was decent last season. He also sucked in 2017-2018, and he sucks this year. Why do you think it's a good idea to reduce the sample size and just completely exclude this season? Would you do that if this were anybody other than a player on your favorite team whose tires you're trying to pump? I very much doubt it.

The trend you ignore is when his stats don't look good, the Habs have injuries and are playing horrible team D in front of him. When his stats look good, the Habs are healthy and are playing decent team D in front of him.

I don't expect the Canes to make the trade. However, those who want to throw Price under the bus are spitting out propaganda. You better bet half the teams in the league would love to have him for $8M AAV... especially if they are in need of a top 10 or top 5 goalie. He's overpaid yes, but more like $1.5M ish IMO. Habs retaining down to $8M is the right situation to make it attractive for teams to fit him in. $9M for two goalies is not a terrible situation moving forward. Maybe the July money is though. Nobody talking about that and that might be a problem for small market teams.

NHLPA keep voting Price as one of the best even when his stats are not so great. They are not dumb, they know the Habs line-up have lots of holes.

 

[SML2]

Avs don't win a cup with Thibault in net vs Roy. If the Habs trade Price with $2.5M retention (most I would go), $8M AAV is a steal cause the minute he plays on a cup contender he gives them an edge. But if you feel you can win with Holtby for cheaper, go ahead and try. It might work out.

You're forgetting that whoever trades for him also more than likely has an incumbent goalie who they have to move. No matter how you look at it, its the math that makes Price untradeable more than his play. Nobody can pay a starter 10.5 and get away with anything more than an ELC as backup and not have it decimate the remaining roster.

 

[Blaine8797]

He was the Price we all know down the stretch last year... You put him on a legit playoff team or contender and hold his beer.

It's about confidence in the team in front of him. He's checked out this year and is tired off the Habs inability to ice a contender in front of him. It's clear but most fans going to look at the stats only. It's BS

Or he’s just in decline and getting worse?

 

[Habs Halifax]

You're forgetting that whoever trades for him also more than likely has an incumbent goalie who they have to move. No matter how you look at it, its the math that makes Price untradeable more than his play. Nobody can pay a starter 10.5 and get away with anything more than an ELC as backup and not have it decimate the remaining roster.

Habs would take that goalie on... If it's the Canes, We can take both Reimer and Mrazek if required and give Price and Lindgren.

Price ($8M AAV) plus Lindgren = $8.7M
vs
Reimer + Mrazek = $6.525M

Basically talking about $2.175M in cap hit here but you are getting a top 5 goalie. If you don't believe he is still a top 5 goalie, why you even bother trading for him? You don't get to take Price with retention for a cheap return and tell us he is not a top 5 or top 10 goalie. That's comical. We are not liquidating him cause we want to trade him. We only trade him if he opens up his NMC and we can get a solid return cause he needs to play for a contender and we have Primeau in the system while we want to move towards youth more

 

[Habs Halifax]

Or he’s just in decline and getting worse?

If you believe that, sure. He has rebounded time and time again when he trends low cause our team sucks in front of him. Name me one elite level goalie who has declined this rapidly in their 30's and it goes on for several seasons? Good luck

You a Flyers fan? Remember other fans telling you Giroux was done when he was trending low a few seasons ago? Boy, what a problem contract that was eh? . You should understand me but pretty sure you going to join the propaganda bandwagon party on trying to say Price is not good anymore. Same BS that was said about Weber when he was injured.

 

[Starat327]

Came in to this thread for HFCanes mercilessly destroying people suggesting insane offers. Not leaving disappointed. 10/10 good work, HFCanes.