WJC: Prediction Time

[Canada4Gold]

I didn't say underager, I said younger. 18 is younger than 19, a team with more 18 year olds is younger than a team with lots of 19 year olds. This isn't hard. You do have 3 key 1998's(Juolevi, Laine, Puljujärvi) and Saarela, Aho 1997's, that's younger than normal for average U20 teams. I didn't say you were running out a group of toddlers

Man a lot of the Fin posters around here seem very argumentative lately, not everything is critisim, we get it you have a great team, you don't have to argue everytime someone says something that isn't glowing criticism of your team. I did say they're in the group of 3 favorites what else do you want? No you have to go pick fault with my definition of young as if a 19 year old and a 18 year old is the same age.

 

[FiLe]

Man a lot of the Fin posters around here seem very argumentative lately, not everything is critisim, we get it you have a great team, you don't have to argue everytime someone says something that isn't glowing criticism of your team. I did say they're in the group of 3 favorites what else do you want? No you have to go pick fault with my definition of young as if a 19 year old and a 18 year old is the same age.

You sure made it sound a like slight, as if it would work against a team if they didn't have all '96 borns. I simply countered that nope, as long as majority of the rest are '97 borns, I don't see an issue. And it's just not true for Finland, but Canada and USA as well. I've every reason to believe that Marner, Strome and Matthews will do fine too, as they are among their peers.

Now, if I wanted to get sensitive, I might note that in English, it's spelled "Finn", with two Ns.

 

[Canada4Gold]

how could it possibly be a slight when I compared it to Canada's Strome and Marner, and USA and Matthews and Tkachuk? Like I wrote that in the least possible way one could write it to make it sound like criticism.

They're great prospects, and if they were all 19 this team would dominate, even at 18 and 17 these guys are really good at hockey but really good prospects aren't as good at 17 and 18 as some older guys. Marner and Strome are really good hockey players, but at 17 they didn't make team Canada, so as good as Laine and Puljujarvi and Juolevi are they're young, Matthews as good as he is wasn't crazy good last year at 17.

I'm about as high on the Finns this year as any non Finn is, but I do know when I say a group are younger than average, I know what that means. 3 17 year olds, then 3 important 18 year olds(Aho, Saarela, Saarijärvi), and probably more I'm not aware of, it's younger than normal. Is it impossible to win with a young team? No, especially not with a team that possesses the talent this team has, but it's tougher to do. But like I said a lot of the teams in this tournament are young anyway, moreso the high end guys on the top teams.

I still don't understand why some of you guys have to argue with any and every negative post that gets made, and that wasn't even a negative post, just a word to describe the team. Are you trying to convince everyone that Finland is the favorite? That's never gonna happen, some people will think they're great, some people will expect them to fail, arguing everytime someone posts something that isn't a glowing accolade of the team isn't gonna solve anything.

 

[Canada4Gold]

you're a really good poster, who's always very informed and realistic about the Finn's chances, and you do have an extremely good team this year so I understand why expectations are high, but please don't turn into the type of fan that goes around and argues with every negative post about their team. It's always annoying when Canadian fans do it every year and having thread derailed with constant bickering about people not liking their teams sucks.

because you're such a good poster I'd rather not put you on ignore(no that's not a threat so please don't take it as one), but that's what I do to avoid the constant bickering of this type, and I really don't want to do it because I know I'll miss the well informed posts that you do make.

 

[FiLe]

how could it possibly be a slight when I compared it to Canada's Strome and Marner, and USA and Matthews and Tkachuk? Like I wrote that in the least possible way one could write it to make it sound like criticism.

They're great prospects, and if they were all 19 this team would dominate, even at 18 and 17 these guys are really good at hockey but really good prospects aren't as good at 17 and 18 as some older guys. Marner and Strome are really good hockey players, but at 17 they didn't make team Canada, so as good as Laine and Puljujarvi and Juolevi are they're young, Matthews as good as he is wasn't crazy good last year at 17.

Um, yeah, I never said 17-year-olds like Laine, Pulju and Juolevi aren't young. They are. I don't, however, consider the next class, namely the '97 borns young, whether they are Finnish, Canadian, American, Swedish or from wherever. So I wasn't really even commenting the composition of Finnish team specifically, in my book any team that doesn't employ an excessive amount of "cageheads" (as in still eligible for U18s) is fully mature to tackle the U20 level. I'd be of this mind even if Team Finland employed nothing but '96 borns and the closest competitors were mostly made of those born in 1997. They'd all still be close enough to me.

Of course, that is a broad generalization. Individual players' experience plays into it too. For example, out of our "key" '97 borns, Saarela and Aho are into their second full season with grown men. Therefore it's hard to figure their age plays into it so much. They're physically quite able to take on guys who are year older. Saarijärvi might be a different case, as he is rather small fry and has no experience from playing with men. And similarly, some 19-year-olds might not be all there if they're lacking physically and have little experience from men's games. And in the other end of the spectrum, we may have monsters like Aleksander Barkov (not featuring in these games, naturally) who was fully ready to take on 19-year-olds @ 16.


And let it be said that I've no issue if some people don't think Team Finland isn't the hottest thing out there. It's true. Purely objectively they're on the same level on paper as Canada, Sweden or even USA. Any of those three or even Russia or the Czechs who aren't all that far behind can win it all if they get it going.

I can get a bit argumentative when I see claims that I don't think hold true when you examine the numbers and other details a bit more closely (such as "Finns are young" or "Finns have bad goalies"), but I don't hold it against anybody if they even after setting the record straight don't figure our guys aren't the clear favorites. As much as I enjoy typing those overly boastful, tongue-in-cheek posts, I find it hard to believe myself.

And no matter what the numbers say, some just have those gut feelings... and it's a bad, bad idea to ever argue against a gut feeling.

 

[UsernameWasTaken]

1. Canada
2. Finland
3. Sweden

MVP - Kyocera
Best forward - Nylander
Best defenseman - Werenski
Best goalie - Blackwood

 

[JackSlater]

People need to stop overreacting about the U.S. team. Lots of talent there and it's coming from many people who I'll bet never get to see guys like Donato, Hitchcock, and Borgen etc. Leaving off Roslovic and Connor was a question mark, but if they perform poorly with the roster they have it won't be because these two aren't there. Still have the talent to win.

That's a strange way to look at it. Teams should be picked to have the best chance possible to win, not just to have enough talent to win.

Also, can anyone explain to me why Finland is such a good pick this year? Some high end draft eligibles (who rarely make an impact at the WJC) and home ice (which history indicates is largely irrelevant) and a good coach... is there anything I'm missing? Looks like a solid team, but I don't see any reason to go crazy over them.

 

[FiLe]

Also, can anyone explain to me why Finland is such a good pick this year? Some high end draft eligibles (who rarely make an impact at the WJC) and home ice (which history indicates is largely irrelevant) and a good coach... is there anything I'm missing? Looks like a solid team, but I don't see any reason to go crazy over them.

Can't speak for everybody, but to me it's that the entire package seems to be in balance for once. Usually Team Finland manages to play over expectations despite being hindered on some department, like lacking scorers. And in years when the team has been somewhat good, like 2012 and 2013, they've eventually suffered from some woefully inept coaching.

This time, all the pieces seem to in place. The best possible talent from relevant classes will make an appearance, no lack of elite or at least serviceable creatures in any department, and a good coach. Simply put, if we Finns can up the expectations even when we're running with handicaps, what happens when there are none?

Of course, that may as well be a recipe for utter disaster, if the team can't handle the situation on the mental side. So one best knock on wood. But unless one wishes to deliberately be a contrarian, there is no tangible reason to predict they won't have a good run.

 

[Cane mutiny]

Gold - Finland
Silver - Canada
Bronze - USA

Best Forward: Sebastian Aho
Best Defender: Haydn Fleury
Best Goalie: Alex Nedeljkovic

(Unabashed homer picks but it could actually happen IMO)

Now that would almost be worth giving up the gold for...i'm in.

 

[helax]

Canada doesn't impress me overall, Sweden's offense is lacking and USA just doesn't look threatening.

I don't understand how we lack in offence? Nylander and Timashov are very good. Holmström and Lindholm are both producing and used as first line F/C playing against men in SHL. Vejdemo and Eriksson Ek are putting up a lot of points as well in SHL, Gustaf Forsling is a damn good PP D with a terrific shot.

Please elaborate on your "Sweden's offense is lacking"

Swedish roster consists of men, playing with men in SHL, almost no one playing for in the Junior leagues.

 

[McCullogh]

Really look forward to this years tournament and think the hosts will win it.

Gold: Finland
Silver: Canada
Bronze: USA

 

[JackSlater]

I predict:

Canada
Sweden
Finland

 

[Mashed Potatoes]

Is it just me or does undrafted players who are predicted to go high in the draft perform worse than expected. Eichel and McDavid for instance?

1. Sweden
2. Canada
3. Finland

 

[1Gold Standard]

Is it just me or does undrafted players who are predicted to go high in the draft perform worse than expected. Eichel and McDavid for instance?

1. Sweden
2. Canada
3. Finland

Generally yes. but McDavid performed very well last year. tied for the lead in tournament scoring.

 

[Prntscrn]

All I know is we will beat the finns in the final. Payback's a b**ch

 

[Snowsii]

Also, can anyone explain to me why Finland is such a good pick this year? Some high end draft eligibles (who rarely make an impact at the WJC) and home ice (which history indicates is largely irrelevant) and a good coach... is there anything I'm missing? Looks like a solid team, but I don't see any reason to go crazy over them.

Finland never have had this kind of core; Laine, Puljujärvi, Hintz, Rantanen, Kapanen, Aho. Most of them are doing very well, at men's level. Rantanen allready did make impact in last WJC he played. So it all comes down to that, if he and hopefully rest of them makes impact
What i would like to point out, that team Finland hasnt never been so big Or atleast i cant remember us having so many 6.2 and taller players.

Then we have two goalies, who are also doing fine, @ Liiga. Defence is like only thing that isnt "loaded"

Then we have Jalonen as a coach, who brought us the most recent mens World Championship gold. He's regarded as very good coach.

Of course having games here in Finland, makes expectations higher.

 

[VictorLustig]

Finland never have had this kind of core; Laine, Puljujärvi, Hintz, Rantanen, Kapanen, Aho. Most of them are doing very well, at men's level. Rantanen allready did make impact in last WJC he played. So it all comes down to that, if he and hopefully rest of them makes impact
What i would like to point out, that team Finland hasnt never been so big Or atleast i cant remember us having so many 6.2 and taller players.

Then we have two goalies, who are also doing fine, @ Liiga. Defence is like only thing that isnt "loaded"

Then we have Jalonen as a coach, who brought us the most recent mens World Championship gold. He's regarded as very good coach.

Of course having games here in Finland, makes expectations higher.

http://www.eliteprospects.com/team.php?team=1608&year0=2013&status=stats

?

 

[Mashed Potatoes]

Generally yes. but McDavid performed very well last year. tied for the lead in tournament scoring.

Well, his skill was apparent but he didn't take over games and I thought Nylander and Reinhart played much better.

 

[1Gold Standard]

Well, his skill was apparent but he didn't take over games and I thought Nylander and Reinhart played much better.

all subjective of course, but they were drafted players. so, you sort of answered your own question.

 

[Snowsii]

http://www.eliteprospects.com/team.php?team=1608&year0=2013&status=stats

?

Take Barkov, Armia, Määttä atleast out of roster. With everyone playing, would be close or better.

*Talking about the last u20 Barkov would have been able

 

[FiLe]

http://www.eliteprospects.com/team.php?team=1608&year0=2013&status=stats

?

That team had unusually weak netminding (as evidenced by Korpisalo's stats), which drags it down a little in Finland's "all time best" list.

I'd say the closest comparison was the team the year before, almost an exact parallel in fact. Loaded offense (2x Granlund, Pulkkinen, Donskoi, Armia, Salomäki, Barkov, etc), rather so-so defense which was a bit on the young side (Pokka, Ristolainen, Määttä all underage), plus a solid netminding performance by Atiokal... I mean... Aitakikol... no, Atital... nevermind, you know who I mean.

Too bad the coach was not up to snuff back then. So looking forward to what this iteration can do, when it's got a better coach and even more offensive firepower.

 

[Czech Yourself Pal]

Is it a personal problem for you that some hfboarders trust and believe in Finland's chances to succeed, in world juniors where Finland is home team and tournament host.
Unfortunately winning for U20 WJC gold medal, is not Canada's proprietary exclusive right as you think

I love this guys attitude, Suomi FTW!

 

[Czech Yourself Pal]

All I know is we will beat the finns in the final. Payback's a b**ch

Finland vs Sweden Final, Finland wins..........6-1 AGAIN

 

[JackSlater]

Can't speak for everybody, but to me it's that the entire package seems to be in balance for once. Usually Team Finland manages to play over expectations despite being hindered on some department, like lacking scorers. And in years when the team has been somewhat good, like 2012 and 2013, they've eventually suffered from some woefully inept coaching.

This time, all the pieces seem to in place. The best possible talent from relevant classes will make an appearance, no lack of elite or at least serviceable creatures in any department, and a good coach. Simply put, if we Finns can up the expectations even when we're running with handicaps, what happens when there are none?

Of course, that may as well be a recipe for utter disaster, if the team can't handle the situation on the mental side. So one best knock on wood. But unless one wishes to deliberately be a contrarian, there is no tangible reason to predict they won't have a good run.

Finland never have had this kind of core; Laine, Puljujärvi, Hintz, Rantanen, Kapanen, Aho. Most of them are doing very well, at men's level. Rantanen allready did make impact in last WJC he played. So it all comes down to that, if he and hopefully rest of them makes impact
What i would like to point out, that team Finland hasnt never been so big Or atleast i cant remember us having so many 6.2 and taller players.

Then we have two goalies, who are also doing fine, @ Liiga. Defence is like only thing that isnt "loaded"

Then we have Jalonen as a coach, who brought us the most recent mens World Championship gold. He's regarded as very good coach.

Of course having games here in Finland, makes expectations higher.

Fair enough, that's all reasonable. There's reason enough for Finns to be looking forward to the tournament. We all know that when Canadians anticipate a particularly strong edition of team Canada the posts can be overly exuberant.

 

[Czech Yourself Pal]

I'm seeing lots of hype for the Finns and rightfully so, high scoring potential Head Coach with good resume. I wouldn't go as far to say that their the clear # 1 favourites, I think they should get a medal (quite possibly be Gold) but this is a tough tournament to win especially with other good teams.