Predators Hockey Discussion 22-23

[drwpreds]

Maybe its homerism clouding my judgement but I still think this roster is capable of winning a round or two of the playoffs. When I compare our roster to someone like Winnipeg or Minnesota it really doesn't seem like we should be incapable of competing with them.

Again, agree so much with this. I am not saying we have a loaded roster or are a serious contender- we are definitely not. But it drives me crazy seeing teams like Winnipeg and Minnesota, and even Dallas, so much better than us right now. And you can throw other teams in there as well, like Seattle.

Those teams absolutely should not be better than us

 

[Kat Predator]

Again, agree so much with this. I am not saying we have a loaded roster or are a serious contender- we are definitely not. But it drives me crazy seeing teams like Winnipeg and Minnesota, and even Dallas, so much better than us right now. And you can throw other teams in there as well, like Seattle.

Those teams absolutely should not be better than us

True. On paper.

Using the eye test though, those teams can actually make tape to tape passes, etc. more often than not. So they may have less talent, but they do look like better, more cohesive hockey teams. Yeah. Strange stuff.

 

[ILikeItILoveIt]

Put me down for making the playoffs regardless of whether we fire Hynes. The intentional/unintentional "suck" to get a Top 5 pick sounds good, but the losing it would take to get there is not tolerable. And then we'd take the wrong guy. We picked 4th in 2013. Aves needed a D-Man and Seth grew up around the Avs. Instead, they take Mackinnon and we got Seth. We really wanted Barkov but didn't happen. Meanwhile, Jake Guentzel was the 77th pick (3rd Round) by the Pens.

I'd like everyone who is playing worse than last year (everyone) to turn it around in the 2nd half and make a nice playoff run. Then if we get in, we search for that lightning in a bottle. Yeah, we probably go one-and-done but it's better than the alternative.

 

[drwpreds]

True. On paper.

Using the eye test though, those teams can actually make tape to tape passes, etc. more often than not. So they may have less talent, but they do look like better, more cohesive hockey teams. Yeah. Strange stuff.

Yes- which for me brings us back to Hynes. We need a change

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Again, agree so much with this. I am not saying we have a loaded roster or are a serious contender- we are definitely not. But it drives me crazy seeing teams like Winnipeg and Minnesota, and even Dallas, so much better than us right now. And you can throw other teams in there as well, like Seattle.

Those teams absolutely should not be better than us

Agreed on Winnipeg, Minnesota, and Seattle. I steadfastly remain true to my roots and have to admit that Dallas simply has better players than we do. Ironically, though... those better players were being held back the last couple years by the same coach that is currently leading Winnipeg's motley crew to success... so...

 

[ShagDaddy]

Agreed on Winnipeg, Minnesota, and Seattle. I steadfastly remain true to my roots and have to admit that Dallas simply has better players than we do. Ironically, though... those better players were being held back the last couple years by the same coach that is currently leading Winnipeg's motley crew to success... so...

The Preds have zero Robertson’s and zero Himtz’s on their roster. Dallas definitely has a couple of much better offensive weapons.

 

[drwpreds]

Agreed on Winnipeg, Minnesota, and Seattle. I steadfastly remain true to my roots and have to admit that Dallas simply has better players than we do. Ironically, though... those better players were being held back the last couple years by the same coach that is currently leading Winnipeg's motley crew to success... so...

I agree with you on Dallas- they probably are better than us- but the gap should not be THIS big- they are #6 in the league and we are 24th. They are better, but not THAT much better. Preseason many had the Preds above them in division predictions

But there is no doubt coaching is the difference and it really shows with Dallas- they are 4th in the league in offense, a far cry from what they have been the last decade or so.

 

[Olderfan]

Kunin done for the year. ACL. Hang tough, Luke; you always gave us all you had and didn’t deserve this.

 

[LCPreds]

 

[glenngineer]

I'll leave this here, Winnipeg has virtually the same roster as last year and have been playing without Ehlers so far. They changed coaches and have been performing well.

While firing Hynes is pretty much agreed upon by most of us, firing Poile is even more important. Unable to draft high-end forwards. Our once stellar blueline pipeline has all but dried up. There is no quick fix unless we get lucky and find a couple of high-end talents in the draft with a new GM.

I did like the Novak call up. Not sure why he lost his spot last year. Hope he sticks around this time. I think if we can get Smith out of the lineup with another young talent, I'll be happy.

 

[Kat Predator]

I'll leave this here, Winnipeg has virtually the same roster as last year and have been playing without Ehlers so far. They changed coaches and have been performing well.

While firing Hynes is pretty much agreed upon by most of us, firing Poile is even more important. Unable to draft high-end forwards. Our once stellar blueline pipeline has all but dried up. There is no quick fix unless we get lucky and find a couple of high-end talents in the draft with a new GM.

I did like the Novak call up. Not sure why he lost his spot last year. Hope he sticks around this time. I think if we can get Smith out of the lineup with another young talent, I'll be happy.

The only way Smith comes out of the lineup is if Hynes is fired.

 

[Olderfan]

The only way Smith comes out of the lineup is if Hynes is fired.

Smith is not the problem. But he’s not a solution either and he does take up a roster spot. It’s sorta funny; he signed out of nowhere. I remember thinking “Who?”. Then he keeps getting NHL time for an inexplicable reason. I guess even some Cup teams carried a Smith type; good D; good PK; plays 4L minutes. But that assumes a generally super top 6, a 3 L that plays D and scores, a solid D and a superstar Goalie coached by a smart coach with good assistant’s. Then a Smith type can be carried to play his role. Smith’s real problem is he is surrounded by “none of the above”.

 

[Kat Predator]

Smith is not the problem. But he’s not a solution either and he does take up a roster spot. It’s sorta funny; he signed out of nowhere. I remember thinking “Who?”. Then he keeps getting NHL time for an inexplicable reason. I guess even some Cup teams carried a Smith type; good D; good PK; plays 4L minutes. But that assumes a generally super top 6, a 3 L that plays D and scores, a solid D and a superstar Goalie coached by a smart coach with good assistant’s. Then a Smith type can be carried to play his role. Smith’s real problem is he is surrounded by “none of the above”.

Right. He is definitely not "the problem" on a team with so many problems. (He is actually playing well for his role. So kudos to him individually.)

He's really just a symptom of the disease. He's filling this team's Miikka Salomaki / Cody McLeod role. Those guys also did a very respectable job in the role they were given. (OTOH neither was in the lineup no matter what either.)

In short, the problem is this team can't score goals. A whole bunch of things have been tried: Rolling fringe NHL/AHL talent through the lineup. Benching some of the younger guys. Blending lines constantly. Calling up hot guns from Milwaukee and putting them at centre as a jolt before dropping them to 4th line or out of the lineup. And all of this has failed.

So it does seem odd to keep an abundance of defensive-minded bangers in the lineup every game, while the skill and scoring is coming from nowhere exactly. Maybe having Sissons, Jeannot, Trenin, Smith, McCarron, Jank, (and previously Sherwood, Sanford) was too much the same flavor of ice cream all at once.

 

[BigFatCat999]

The only way Smith comes out of the lineup is if Hynes is fired.

Why focus on a JAG when you can focus on the team as a whole?

 

[Arthur Morgan]

any word on Borowiecki? he going to return or he done for the season?

 

[Scoresberg]

For all the talk about our top guys underperforming, here's our points per 60 ranking:

Forsberg 2.77
Duchene 2.63
Johansen 2.13
Granlund 2.07
Niederraiter 1.91
Josi 1.80

..

Smith 1.03
Jeannot 0.39

We are really underutilizing our top guys:

Forsberg's last 5 games TOI:

17:11
17:04
17:09
17:39
18:25

Duchene's last 5 games TOI:

16:21
20:20
17:26
16:49
19:28

Joey's last 5:

13:54
14:20
16:26
13:59
15:53

If we want some more scoring, I'd suggest putting our top players on the same line, and playing them the 20 minutes a night that the rest of the league are playing their best players.

 

[Predsanddead24]

any word on Borowiecki? he going to return or he done for the season?

I haven’t seen anything but it doesn’t seem like it’s season ending since they haven’t put him on LTIR. My guess since it’s concussion related is that they are just seeing how it progresses and it’s hard to put a timeline on it.

 

[drwpreds]

For all the talk about our top guys underperforming, here's our points per 60 ranking:

Forsberg 2.77
Duchene 2.63
Johansen 2.13
Granlund 2.07
Niederraiter 1.91
Josi 1.80

..

Smith 1.03
Jeannot 0.39

We are really underutilizing our top guys:

Forsberg's last 5 games TOI:

17:11
17:04
17:09
17:39
18:25

Duchene's last 5 games TOI:

16:21
20:20
17:26
16:49
19:28

Joey's last 5:

13:54
14:20
16:26
13:59
15:53

If we want some more scoring, I'd suggest putting our top players on the same line, and playing them the 20 minutes a night that the rest of the league are playing their best players.

Amen to that- but it probably aint happening- Hynes gonna Hynes......

 

[nine_inch_fang]

I don't know if this is a change made by the coaches or if the players are finally starting to do a better job of executing the plan but I've noticed a change in the Dzone coverage.

The team had seemed to get into a passive zone defense that was pretty compact early in the season, some of this might be because of the puck watching that I've pointed out before where the players thought they were in good position "protecting the house" but were leaving way too much room to make plays with no pressure around the perimeter and no awareness of the opponents movements away from the puck.

Now it seems that the Dmen and low forward (typically the center) are sticking to their man almost as if it's man on man defense. Not passing opponents off between right and left D but they also aren't chasing players out to the blueline like we saw in a true man on man with Lavy. Right now, they stay with a man until he skates out past the tops of the circles, if he skates out by the point they'll leave him for the wingers to cover and drop back waiting and looking for who is going to drop down low and try to attack the net.

This change (whatever has motivated it) is probably why we're seeing lower goals against and seems to go hand in hand with the goalies getting better results. Even if the team as a whole hasn't because of the lack of scoring.

 

[triggrman]

I don't know if this is a change made by the coaches or if the players are finally starting to do a better job of executing the plan but I've noticed a change in the Dzone coverage.

The team had seemed to get into a passive zone defense that was pretty compact early in the season, some of this might be because of the puck watching that I've pointed out before where the players thought they were in good position "protecting the house" but were leaving way too much room to make plays with no pressure around the perimeter and no awareness of the opponents movements away from the puck.

Now it seems that the Dmen and low forward (typically the center) are sticking to their man almost as if it's man on man defense. Not passing opponents off between right and left D but they also aren't chasing players out to the blueline like we saw in a true man on man with Lavy. Right now, they stay with a man until he skates out past the tops of the circles, if he skates out by the point they'll leave him for the wingers to cover and drop back waiting and looking for who is going to drop down low and try to attack the net.

This change (whatever has motivated it) is probably why we're seeing lower goals against and seems to go hand in hand with the goalies getting better results. Even if the team as a whole hasn't because of the lack of scoring.

I noticed that coverage change with the defensemen a little bit ago. I don't mind it, it seems to be far better but it leads to a lot of 2 guys behind the net, which I hate, always have.

 

[Olderfan]

II noticed that coverage change with the defensemen a little bit ago. I don't mind it, it seems to be far better but it leads to a lot of 2 guys behind the net, which I hate, always have.

I’m a TV fan now after years as a STH; health reasons, and one great loss is the ability to see the whole ice and non-puck related action. I appreciate these observations because I didn’t notice the change. I’ll watch that tonight. Thanks.

 

[nine_inch_fang]

I noticed that coverage change with the defensemen a little bit ago. I don't mind it, it seems to be far better but it leads to a lot of 2 guys behind the net, which I hate, always have.

Agreed, but as long as they aren't double teaming one guy and they stay goal side of their mark it's not too bad.

 

[101st_fan]

Gross was called up as an emergency loan so he gets returned when we're back to six healthy d-men.

 

[cool beans]

I wish this team would let young forwards
Develop like they let young defenseman. They let the young dmen ride the highs and lows but give no leash to the forwards. Just an observation

 

[101st_fan]

I wish this team would let young forwards
Develop like they let young defenseman. They let the young dmen ride the highs and lows but give no leash to the forwards. Just an observation

Most d-men are 3+ years after their draft by the time they get a call up significant time with the Preds.

By the time our home grown d-men got at least half a season of NHL play Carrier was 25 (Trenin was same draft class with more games in the NHL). Fabbro was 21. Ekholm 23. Josi 21. All with college, AHL, or European pro time. Trotz's comments about a young Ehkom were brutal and we didn't see Ekky back in a Preds uniform for two seasons after that. All older than Tomasino or Parssinen ... the younger d-men were the same age as Tolvanen. Del Gaizo was the same draft class as Tomasino and Parssinen , Stastney the year prior ... neither playing in the NHL yet.