Power vs L Hughes vs Edvinsson vs Clarke

[dgibb10]

Only advanced stats matter. Nothing else.

These teams will be playing in future playoff games and if this guy does this:

View attachment 944190

Imagine what edvinsson is gonna do.

No Mr Seider post is not food

Might be time to hit the weight room Mo if you're getting sent flying by Jack Hughes reverse hits. Nice sell job tho.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Not the claim I am making at all.

I am pointing out the stupidity of your claim about help when I know that you think Edvinsson has a SIGNIFICANTLY better partner, and that if I actually went and asked you about the forwards, you would favour a significant number of detroits.

I can almost guarantee that you think Seider is significantly better than pesce, and that Detroits 1st and 4th lines have better players than NJD. (I'm less confident about line 3, but I still expect that you think it's the case).

Answer the question.

Pesce vs Seider

and each of the lines.

And yet you are claiming that there is a MASSIVE gap in help around him favouring Luke.

And if we compared Nico to Larkin you'd say the same thing and so on and so on and so on.

It's a weak argument by fans of bad teams to make themselves feel better. Blame it on having "less help" and then apply that to every single player on your team.

Everything in this post is completely made up in your own head.

And yet you are claiming that there is a MASSIVE gap in help around him favouring Luke.

Where was this claim for example?

Luke leads the entire league in xG% among defenseman (>200 mins) at 60.1%. Playing on a good team obviously helps, but he takes that team from good to great when he's on the ice. That's not an easy thing to do.

It may not be easy, but it's not like he's breaking the mold on the Devils. Every D but Hamilton is above 55% and Kovacevic for example is right up there with Hughes. Among forwards Meier, Hischier, Hughes, Tatar etc. are all going in the 58-61% range and no regulars are below 50%.

Meanwhile Edvinsson is the only d-man above 50% on Detroit. His relative xGF% is more than twice as good as Hughes. It's like Edvinsson is able to float above the massive gravity that is dragging down nearly the entirety of the rest of the roster. To me, that's more impressive than Hughes numbers.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

It may not be easy, but it's not like he's breaking the mold on the Devils. Every D but Hamilton is above 55% and Kovacevic for example is right up there with Hughes. Among forwards Meier, Hischier, Hughes, Tatar etc. are all going in the 58-61% range and no regulars are below 50%.

Meanwhile Edvinsson is the only d-man above 50% on Detroit. His relative xGF% is more than twice as good as Hughes.

It's a lot easier to have an inflated rel xG% on a terrible team. it's still impressive, but Hughes would have to be at ~65% to get the same rel xG%. It's just not realistic.

It's like Edvinsson is able to float above the massive gravity that is dragging down nearly the entirety of the rest of the roster. To me, that's more impressive than Hughes numbers.

Debrincat and Kasper are also floating above that gravity. Larkin, Raymond, Berggren, and Maatta are all in 48-51% range as well.

 

[dgibb10]

Everything in this post is completely made up in your own head.


Where was this claim for example?


It may not be easy, but it's not like he's breaking the mold on the Devils. Every D but Hamilton is above 55% and Kovacevic for example is right up there with Hughes. Among forwards Meier, Hischier, Hughes, Tatar etc. are all going in the 58-61% range and no regulars are below 50%.

Meanwhile Edvinsson is the only d-man above 50% on Detroit. His relative xGF% is more than twice as good as Hughes. It's like Edvinsson is able to float above the massive gravity that is dragging down nearly the entirety of the rest of the roster. To me, that's more impressive than Hughes numbers.

Yes, Kovy Siegs and Dillon-Hamilton are also quality defensive pairs. 3 excellent pairings.

Seider-Edvinsson being better than Chiarot, Holl, Petry, and Gustafsson isn't some crazy accomplishment.

Meanwhile after today Luke Hughes will likely move to 1st in the league in xGoals% (minimum 200 minutes) at around 61.5%.

At a certain point when does it stop. What more could luke possibly do beyond 1st in the f***ing league.

 

[dgibb10]

It's a lot easier to have an inflated rel xG% on a terrible team. it's still impressive, but Hughes would have to be at ~65% to get the same rel xG%. It's just not realistic.

Debrincat and Kasper are also floating above that gravity. Larkin, Raymond, Berggren, and Maatta are all in 48-51% range as well.

Yup. If the claim is

"the gap between Edvinsson-Seider and Petry,Holl,Chiarot, Gustafsson is bigger than the gap between Luke-Pesce and Dougie-Dillon and Siegs-Kovy"

That would be true.

 

[biturbo19]

I'd say Luke Hughes is clearly at the top of this heap and still just getting better.

Then Owen Power, and Simon Edvinsson seems to be making a case for that he's in that class with the potential to overtake Power.

Then Clarke brings up the rear.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Do you honestly believe, with what Detroit has cooking, that they won't make a playoff appearance in the future?

Or is it just hyperbole?

Maybe new jerseys window closes in the next few years just as Detroit's is opening up.

What Detroit has cooking

 

[Hisch13r]

I'd say Luke Hughes is clearly at the top of this heap and still just getting better.

Then Owen Power, and Simon Edvinsson seems to be making a case for that he's in that class with the potential to overtake Power.

Then Clarke brings up the rear.

I think Power’s 4th. I think there’s a clear divide between the top 2 and bottom 2. Bottom 2 are going to be good offensive Dmen but I think the defense will be lackluster. Edvinsson and Hughes will be much better defensively. Edvinsson the best defensively but I don’t think he’ll be as good offensively as Luke. I think Luke’s the two way star of the bunch.

 

[biturbo19]

I think Power’s 4th. I think there’s a clear divide between the top 2 and bottom 2. Bottom 2 are going to be good offensive Dmen but I think the defense will be lackluster. Edvinsson and Hughes will be much better defensively. Edvinsson the best defensively but I don’t think he’ll be as good offensively as Luke. I think Luke’s the two way star of the bunch.

Part of what puts Luke above the rest for me, is probably bias in watching what Quinton has done, with just getting better and making those exponential leaps year over year. See a lot of the same starting to happen with Luke.


With Edvinsson, i'd agree...he could very realistically become the best of the bunch defensively, but i'm not sure how much offense will come with that.

Power to me is a tough read in some ways. The offense is there, and there's really no particularly reason to think that the defensive side won't eventually come. But he's definitely a lot more passive defensively and has some pretty brutal moments. If he can cut down on those "ooopsie" moments though, i think he's got every ability to be a solid defensive player. He's got all the tools and he seems to generally be a pretty smart player with good vision on the ice.

 

[Kingfan1967]

the stats for them so far in 2024

Power (Buffalo 87gf 95ga -8 diff) DOB 11/22/02
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]29[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]19[/TD]
[TD]-1[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]22:26[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Edvinsson (Detroit 74gf 92ga -18) DOB 02/05/03
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]28[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]21:16[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Hughes (New Jersey 110gf 86ga +24) DOB 09/09/03
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]24[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]19:06[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Clarke (Los Angeles 92gf 76ga +16) DOB 02/09/03
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]17[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]22[/TD]
[TD]18:12[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

ranking offense
Power
Clarke
Edvinsson
Hughes (should be higher playing on the better offensive team)

ranking defense
Edvinsson (being a +6 on a negative team)
Clarke
Power
Hughes (+1 on a +24 isn't a good look)

Overall
1) Power (a true #1)
2a) Clarke (2nd/3rd pair, needs more ice time)
2b) Edvinsson (more offense would be nice)
4) Hughes (needs to show more - 7 months younger than Clarke/Edvinsson hurts him a little too).

 

[MasterofGrond]

the stats for them so far in 2024

Power (Buffalo 87gf 95ga -8 diff) DOB 11/22/02
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]29[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]19[/TD]
[TD]-1[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]22:26[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Edvinsson (Detroit 74gf 92ga -18) DOB 02/05/03
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]28[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]21:16[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Hughes (New Jersey 110gf 86ga +24) DOB 09/09/03
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]24[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]19:06[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Clarke (Los Angeles 92gf 76ga +16) DOB 02/09/03
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]17[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]22[/TD]
[TD]18:12[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

ranking offense
Power
Clarke
Edvinsson
Hughes (should be higher playing on the better offensive team)

ranking defense
Edvinsson (being a +6 on a negative team)
Clarke
Power
Hughes (+1 on a +24 isn't a good look)

Overall
1) Power (a true #1)
2a) Clarke (2nd/3rd pair, needs more ice time)
2b) Edvinsson (more offense would be nice)
4) Hughes (needs to show more - 7 months younger than Clarke/Edvinsson hurts him a little too).

LMAO

incredible bit

 

[dgibb10]

LMAO

incredible bit

NJD has let in 10 goals total in Luke's 410 minutes of play 5v5 lmao

 

[dgibb10]

Part of what puts Luke above the rest for me, is probably bias in watching what Quinton has done, with just getting better and making those exponential leaps year over year. See a lot of the same starting to happen with Luke.


With Edvinsson, i'd agree...he could very realistically become the best of the bunch defensively, but i'm not sure how much offense will come with that.

Power to me is a tough read in some ways. The offense is there, and there's really no particularly reason to think that the defensive side won't eventually come. But he's definitely a lot more passive defensively and has some pretty brutal moments. If he can cut down on those "ooopsie" moments though, i think he's got every ability to be a solid defensive player. He's got all the tools and he seems to generally be a pretty smart player with good vision on the ice.

6 foot 3 Hughes bro go vroom vroom (he's the fastest skater of the 3 as well, not as elusive but his top speed and acceleration is better)

 

[Hisch13r]

Part of what puts Luke above the rest for me, is probably bias in watching what Quinton has done, with just getting better and making those exponential leaps year over year. See a lot of the same starting to happen with Luke.


With Edvinsson, i'd agree...he could very realistically become the best of the bunch defensively, but i'm not sure how much offense will come with that.

Power to me is a tough read in some ways. The offense is there, and there's really no particularly reason to think that the defensive side won't eventually come. But he's definitely a lot more passive defensively and has some pretty brutal moments. If he can cut down on those "ooopsie" moments though, i think he's got every ability to be a solid defensive player. He's got all the tools and he seems to generally be a pretty smart player with good vision on the ice.

While I agree the tools are there for Power to be good defensively I’ve just never liked the way he’s defended at any level. I’ll acknowledge I could be wrong here because I do see how he becomes a solid defender but I just don’t see it happening. Nemec kind of reminds me of Power but just worse at like everything than Power is

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

the stats for them so far in 2024

Power (Buffalo 87gf 95ga -8 diff) DOB 11/22/02
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]29[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]19[/TD]
[TD]-1[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]22:26[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Edvinsson (Detroit 74gf 92ga -18) DOB 02/05/03
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]28[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]21:16[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Hughes (New Jersey 110gf 86ga +24) DOB 09/09/03
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]24[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]19:06[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Clarke (Los Angeles 92gf 76ga +16) DOB 02/09/03
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]17[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]22[/TD]
[TD]18:12[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

ranking offense
Power
Clarke
Edvinsson
Hughes (should be higher playing on the better offensive team)

ranking defense
Edvinsson (being a +6 on a negative team)
Clarke
Power
Hughes (+1 on a +24 isn't a good look)

Overall
1) Power (a true #1)
2a) Clarke (2nd/3rd pair, needs more ice time)
2b) Edvinsson (more offense would be nice)
4) Hughes (needs to show more - 7 months younger than Clarke/Edvinsson hurts him a little too).

This is a joke right?

 

[Pavels Dog]

It's a lot easier to have an inflated rel xG% on a terrible team. it's still impressive, but Hughes would have to be at ~65% to get the same rel xG%. It's just not realistic.

Debrincat and Kasper are also floating above that gravity. Larkin, Raymond, Berggren, and Maatta are all in 48-51% range as well.

Meier has a rel xG% of 8.3%, Hishier 6%, Kovacevic 5.8%. So it's not impossible. Again, I struggle to see that Hughes analytics truly stand out in the crowd on the Devils.
Edvinsson is not the only Wings player with decent analytics, but Määttä with his 7GP being the only other d-man says something. Most of the forwards you mention get significantly easier deployment for one.

 

[biturbo19]

While I agree the tools are there for Power to be good defensively I’ve just never liked the way he’s defended at any level. I’ll acknowledge I could be wrong here because I do see how he becomes a solid defender but I just don’t see it happening. Nemec kind of reminds me of Power but just worse at like everything than Power is

That's entirely fair. One of the biggest things with Quin Hughes going from an honestly not great defender to a kind of elite one, was just in learning to be less passive. Learning how to use his stick, but also how to engage physically even though he's small.

A lot of that is stuff i've seen Luke starting to understand and appreciate. Right now, he's in that sort of territory Quin was a few years ago. But he's also got an obvious physical advantage with his size, which is kind of scary if he starts to understand that part of the game better like Quinton did.


Also definitely agree that there are a lot of similarities between Nemec and Power. It's where i wasn't actually that high on Nemec in the draft even...but he's another guy who, like Power...has the potential to round out into a very solid all-around defender if they can overcome some of those obstacles and learn to play a tighter, more responsible game.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Meier has a rel xG% of 8.3%, Hishier 6%, Kovacevic 5.8%. So it's not impossible.

That's because they played the first 9 games when the devils xG% was much lower.

Again, I struggle to see that Hughes analytics truly stand out in the crowd on the Devils.

Luke is the only devils D above 59% at 61.1%.

 

[Coach Reggie Dunlop]

As a Detroit fan I may be biased but I wouldn’t trade edvinsson straight up for any of these guys. If I could do it all over again I’d take edvinsson at 1. Hughes Is a fantastic talent, but for me that doesn’t make up for his lack of size compared to edvinsson (not that Hughes is small but Ed is just absurdly big). A 6’7 unicorn defenseman like him is unheard of.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

probably still take power but hughes makes it a very tough call

Taking the worst dman listed out of poll is an impressive feat

As a Detroit fan I may be biased but I wouldn’t trade edvinsson straight up for any of these guys. If I could do it all over again I’d take edvinsson at 1. Hughes Is a fantastic talent, but for me that doesn’t make up for his lack of size compared to edvinsson (not that Hughes is small but Ed is just absurdly big). A 6’7 unicorn defenseman like him is unheard of.

Edvinsson is an animal, he's the only guy here I would take over Luke anyway so there's no real animosity towards him, one would think, from Devils fans. My only worry would be is the dip Edvinsson has similar to Seider did with playing out of his skin in his first year and then sorta stagnating, whether its from bad partners or just the ebbs and flows of dman in this league, but we shall see. He's an awesome player and already one of the Red Wings's best at a young age.

 

[Coach Reggie Dunlop]

Taking the worst dman listed out of poll is an impressive feat



Edvinsson is an animal, he's the only guy here I would take over Luke anyway so there's no real animosity towards him, one would think, from Devils fans. My only worry would be is the dip Edvinsson has similar to Seider did with playing out of his skin in his first year and then sorta stagnating, whether its from bad partners or just the ebbs and flows of dman in this league, but we shall see. He's an awesome player and already one of the Red Wings's best at a young age.

I get why you would be worried about that, thing is, seiders dip was because he had to carry Ben chariots corpse up and down the ice, while playing some of the hardest minutes ever recorded for a Dman in the modern era. Edvinsson will always have seider as a dman to be paired with, and I don’t see that changing anytime soon unless they try to put Ed with ASP (they could but likely wouldn’t try that next season, down the road maybe). Some nights he’s legit our best defender and even better than seider. Maybe he will still have the dip seider did, but I think it’s a lot less likely to happen. He’s just in a way better situation than what seider was thrown into.

 

[dgibb10]

Meier has a rel xG% of 8.3%, Hishier 6%, Kovacevic 5.8%. So it's not impossible. Again, I struggle to see that Hughes analytics truly stand out in the crowd on the Devils.
Edvinsson is not the only Wings player with decent analytics, but Määttä with his 7GP being the only other d-man says something. Most of the forwards you mention get significantly easier deployment for one.

Yeah it says the wings defense group is dogshit beyond the first pairing and your GM keeps shipping out the better guys in the group

 

[Clam Jensen]

the stats for them so far in 2024

Power (Buffalo 87gf 95ga -8 diff) DOB 11/22/02
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]29[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]19[/TD]
[TD]-1[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]22:26[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Edvinsson (Detroit 74gf 92ga -18) DOB 02/05/03
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]28[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]21:16[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Hughes (New Jersey 110gf 86ga +24) DOB 09/09/03
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]24[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]19:06[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Clarke (Los Angeles 92gf 76ga +16) DOB 02/09/03
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]17[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]22[/TD]
[TD]18:12[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

ranking offense
Power
Clarke
Edvinsson
Hughes (should be higher playing on the better offensive team)

ranking defense
Edvinsson (being a +6 on a negative team)
Clarke
Power
Hughes (+1 on a +24 isn't a good look)

Overall
1) Power (a true #1)
2a) Clarke (2nd/3rd pair, needs more ice time)
2b) Edvinsson (more offense would be nice)
4) Hughes (needs to show more - 7 months younger than Clarke/Edvinsson hurts him a little too).

I think you may be better suited posting on Facebook.

 

[Kingfan1967]

I think you may be better suited posting on Facebook.

offense, 19>17>13>10 in the real world , add in the offense of the teams they play for and it looks much worst.

 

[Hisch13r]

That's because they played the first 9 games when the devils xG% was much lower.


Luke is the only devils D above 59% at 61.1%.

And a large reason the xG% was lower is because Luke wasn’t there.