Potential Atlanta NHL Expansion Team Thread

[dj4aces]

I saw that too. She's been out front of all the coverage of this whole thing. It's certainly promising that the county would travel to meet with the league and tour a facility, so they know what to plan for. It also shows they're dedicated to the success of a prospective team, which is a strong signal to the league and the Forsyth taxpayers that this endeavor wouldn't be a mistake.

 

[BMOK33]

I still think living in ATL they are putting this thing maybe 10-15 miles too far north. If it was remotely near where the Braves park is I'd say its fine but this is so insanely out there it shuts out anyone from the south side of ATL and even those who live near where the Braves park is their drive to cross over to that area is brutal on a week day. They'd do fine first 3 years or so but then even if the team was elite they'd be like 80% capacity on week nights

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

I still think living in ATL they are putting this thing maybe 10-15 miles too far north. If it was remotely near where the Braves park is I'd say its fine but this is so insanely out there it shuts out anyone from the south side of ATL and even those who live near where the Braves park is their drive to cross over to that area is brutal on a week day. They'd do fine first 3 years or so but then even if the team was elite they'd be like 80% capacity on week nights

I agree that it may me a bit too far north, but that's where their likely ticket base is located (at least based on Braves data). I'm sure they're sacrificing some tickets from the south side, but they're gaining a ton on the north side.

 

[dj4aces]

I agree that it may me a bit too far north, but that's where their likely ticket base is located (at least based on Braves data). I'm sure they're sacrificing some tickets from the south side, but they're gaining a ton on the north side.

I lived south of town for nearly 40 years (yeah, I legit was moved down here from Michigan at the age of six weeks), and I can tell you most hockey fan I knew and grew up with as a kid either moved to the northside or moved out-of-state.

There are definitely still fans south of town. If one is truly committed to growing the game, establishing a minor league team in or near Peachtree City, McDonough, or Stockbridge would be a far better bet than having the NHL team live downtown.

With that said though, I too feel like the proposed development is a little far north, but also recognize there's really not a lot of places one could put such a development without a lot of red tape or other hurdles that'd need to be crossed.

 

[KevFu]

The main board is predictably freaking out, but am I understanding it correctly that they will greenlight it if/when they get an NHL commitment, or that they are greenlighted now?

Isn't this the same kinda thing they did in Seattle? A Memo Of Understanding that the financing would come through if a team was secured, which the group could take to the NHL and say "we have an arena deal."

 

[KevFu]

Not knowing the area well, it sounds like this isn't planned for the heart of Atlanta, right?

This ain't gonna be another Coyotes/Glendale situation, is it? Arena so far out of the actual city that nobody shows up?

It's really market-specific based on the geography of each metro area. The "downtown" works best when the market radiates outward evenly from the middle and the arena is the bullseye.

That principle applies to Phoenix/Glendale, but it's even worse because the metro area isn't circle, it's a bowtie as mountains funnel the East Valley through a bottleneck of traffic that's insane, Phoenix isn't even the center, the "knot" of the bowtie is east of downtown PHX in Tempe and those mountains to the south of downtown force the metro area spread extremely wide instead of evenly.

For Atlanta, Cobb and Gwinnett counties just have more people/money than the municipalities equal distance on the southern side. The MLB team moving was the result of extensive data on where their season-ticket holders lived.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

I lived south of town for nearly 40 years (yeah, I legit was moved down here from Michigan at the age of six weeks), and I can tell you most hockey fan I knew and grew up with as a kid either moved to the northside or moved out-of-state.

There are definitely still fans south of town. If one is truly committed to growing the game, establishing a minor league team in or near Peachtree City, McDonough, or Stockbridge would be a far better bet than having the NHL team live downtown.

With that said though, I too feel like the proposed development is a little far north, but also recognize there's really not a lot of places one could put such a development without a lot of red tape or other hurdles that'd need to be crossed.

In that map (Braves ticket base) I keep mentioning, the Peachtree City area is the only solid red area south of Downtown. Tons of money there.

 

[GKJ]

Isn't this the same kinda thing they did in Seattle? A Memo Of Understanding that the financing would come through if a team was secured, which the group could take to the NHL and say "we have an arena deal."

Who are the owners though?

 

[dj4aces]

In that map (Braves ticket base) I keep mentioning, the Peachtree City area is the only solid red area south of Downtown. Tons of money there.

My old doctors are there, and they have golf cart parking as well as regular vehicle parking. Definitely a lot of money there. A minor league team would do well there.

Other than a few places in Clayton and Henry counties though, that's where you'll find the money on the southside.

 

[dj4aces]

Who are the owners though?

An interesting question, to be sure.

The owner of the team and operator of the arena, from the way it sounds, would be Krause Sports and Entertainment. The owner of the arena would likely be Forsyth County.

 

[KevFu]

Who are the owners though?

OVG was working on their bid to renovate KeyArena for at least seven months before Bonderman joined OVG as the would-be owner. OVG was public of their intention to bid on the project in 2016, and Bonderman joined in July of 2017.

So it's not that unusual for a developer to go owners shopping.

 

[TheLegend]

Not knowing the area well, it sounds like this isn't planned for the heart of Atlanta, right?

This ain't gonna be another Coyotes/Glendale situation, is it? Arena so far out of the actual city that nobody shows up?

I’m not familiar with Atlanta’s layout (it’s been 50 years) but if you put it out where your core base is located it’s fine.

The only reason why the Coyotes ended up in Glendale was because their primary owner at the time was purely a developer first and more concerned with making the big splash with his dream project and selling it within ten years than he was owning a sports franchise.

And Glendale leadership back then were trying to make their own splash against all the other cities with the metro area and didn’t care how they did it.

That’s why I’m hoping both the developers and the county really make sure to do the legwork.

 

[sneakytitz]

I’m not familiar with Atlanta’s layout (it’s been 50 years) but if you put it out where your core base is located it’s fine.

The only reason why the Coyotes ended up in Glendale was because their primary owner at the time was purely a developer first and more concerned with making the big splash with his dream project and selling it within ten years than he was owning a sports franchise.

And Glendale leadership back then were trying to make their own splash against all the other cities with the metro area and didn’t care how they did it.

That’s why I’m hoping both the developers and the county really make sure to do the legwork.

The only downside I see with the location is that it is an hour from the airport. That is going to be rough on visiting teams with back-to-back games starting in Atlanta UNLESS they try to avoid that all together with scheduling or make Atlanta the second of the back-to-back games.

Or we can just finally build that second airport north of the city like they've teased for decades, haha.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

We're being told no - that this is the part of town with the most likely hockey fans.

Not hockey fans per se but certain racial demographic.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Or we can just finally build that second airport north of the city like they've teased for decades, haha.

How would that work - with Atlanta being such a major airport hub?

 

[sneakytitz]

How would that work - with Atlanta being such a major airport hub?

I presume similar to how O'Haire and Midway or DFW and Love or Dulles and Reagan, etc. work.

Ironically enough, the City of Atlanta owns 10,000 acres of land about 25 minutes away from this proposed arena and they bought it for the possibility of a future airport all the way back in the 70s.

 

[dj4aces]

I presume similar to how O'Haire and Midway or DFW and Love or Dulles and Reagan, etc. work.

Ironically enough, the City of Atlanta owns 10,000 acres of land about 25 minutes away from this proposed arena and they bought it for the possibility of a future airport all the way back in the 70s.

I think Cobb International (RYY) could possibly be expanded? Why build a new one when an international airport already exists north of the city? It'd also provide an opportunity to build additional infrastructure (such as finally completing the proposed northern arc/GA-500 highway).

Not a perfect solution, but it's one possibility.

 

[dj4aces]

Having listened to this myself, I can confirm this is basically what the podcast mentioned here says, so I'm comfortable linking the tweet. A link to the podcast's Facebook page, for some reason, is included in the thread; however, the podcast, which runs for just under 32 minutes, can also be found here instead.

 

[TheLegend]

Having listened to this myself, I can confirm this is basically what the podcast mentioned here says, so I'm comfortable linking the tweet. A link to the podcast's Facebook page, for some reason, is included in the thread; however, the podcast, which runs for just under 32 minutes, can also be found here instead.

Any estimates mentioned as to when this could get off the ground?

 

[dj4aces]

Any estimates mentioned as to when this could get off the ground?

Nope. I even went back and listened to it again to make sure I didn't miss it somewhere... but no, no specific timetable unless I'm just selectively deaf. It's a possibility, mind you (maybe I selectively just don't like timetables?), but I'm about 98% sure there was no mention of any.

I know that, based off of some recent constructions (LCA in Detroit, TMA in Vegas, Climate Pledge in Seattle), it takes about two years to build/renovate, so I imagine that'd be one of the things to look at if we're putting together a future timeline of sorts.

A key thing that was mentioned is, while this whole thing got started because of the desire to bring the NHL back to Atlanta, the presence of the league is only required for the public subsidy. If Krause decides to proceed with building the development anyway, it's all coming out of his and his investors pockets. This particular podcast made no mention of who else might be involved. Also stated was, if Potential Atlanta NHL Franchise v3.0 were to leave the building (ie a new arena is constructed) or otherwise relocate, the outstanding balance on the public debt must be repaid.

They also went on to talk about economic impact (the county commissioned two different studies, but no details were divulged), configurations of residential units, and a desire to attract people to Forsyth for things like shopping and entertainment, as opposed to them traveling outside the county (gotta bring in those tax dollars).

 

[TheLegend]

Nope. I even went back and listened to it again to make sure I didn't miss it somewhere... but no, no specific timetable unless I'm just selectively deaf. It's a possibility, mind you (maybe I selectively just don't like timetables?), but I'm about 98% sure there was no mention of any.

I know that, based off of some recent constructions (LCA in Detroit, TMA in Vegas, Climate Pledge in Seattle), it takes about two years to build/renovate, so I imagine that'd be one of the things to look at if we're putting together a future timeline of sorts.

A key thing that was mentioned is, while this whole thing got started because of the desire to bring the NHL back to Atlanta, the presence of the league is only required for the public subsidy. If Krause decides to proceed with building the development anyway, it's all coming out of his and his investors pockets. This particular podcast made no mention of who else might be involved. Also stated was, if Potential Atlanta NHL Franchise v3.0 were to leave the building (ie a new arena is constructed) or otherwise relocate, the outstanding balance on the public debt must be repaid.

They also went on to talk about economic impact (the county commissioned two different studies, but no details were divulged), configurations of residential units, and a desire to attract people to Forsyth for things like shopping and entertainment, as opposed to them traveling outside the county (gotta bring in those tax dollars).

Thanks….

Have to imagine they’re going to take their time and get it all nailed down.

Which is the hardest part for fans.

 

[GreenHornet]

A key thing that was mentioned is, while this whole thing got started because of the desire to bring the NHL back to Atlanta, the presence of the league is only required for the public subsidy. If Krause decides to proceed with building the development anyway, it's all coming out of his and his investors pockets.

To me, THIS is huge, especially since they also talked about a 25- to 35-year term on the bonds to play for it. That should (hopefully) pour a little cold water on all the "Atlanta 3.0 will be in Quebec within 10 years" crap.

 

[dj4aces]

To me, THIS is huge, especially since they also talked about a 25- to 35-year term on the bonds to play for it. That should (hopefully) pour a little cold water on all the "Atlanta 3.0 will be in Quebec within 10 years" crap.

I mean... that is the running gag, along with "Atlanta helps provide Canadian cities with NHL teams", isn't it? But indeed, having someone who wishes to relocate the team be on the hook for the remaining balance is certainly something that should scare off the vultures.

It won't stop shitty people from being shitty though.

 

[cowboy82nd]

In that map (Braves ticket base) I keep mentioning, the Peachtree City area is the only solid red area south of Downtown. Tons of money there.

That's where all the airline pilots live.

 

[sneakytitz]

To me, THIS is huge, especially since they also talked about a 25- to 35-year term on the bonds to play for it. That should (hopefully) pour a little cold water on all the "Atlanta 3.0 will be in Quebec within 10 years" crap.

Maybe.

I don't know the specifics of the proposed Forsyth bonds but we've already seen sports leagues waive relocation fees to put franchises in better cities. For example, the MLB just waived a $300 million relocation fee to get the A's into Vegas. Considering what the rumored relocation fee is now in the NHL, convincing the Board of Governors to reduce or outright waive the relocation fee to offset the debt on bonds is certainly possible if things get bad enough and a willing buyer exists somewhere else.

In other words, I don't interpret this as an unbreakable stipulation. The Falcons are about 1/4 way through a 30 year lease with MBS and cannot move out of Atlanta until it's paid in full, but the full value of the lease is only $75 million (about $57.5 million now), which is peanuts to anyone looking to buy an NFL team.