Post Deadline Transactions and Signings

  • Work is still on-going to rebuild the site styling and features. Please report any issues you may experience so we can look into it. Click Here for Updates
Status
Not open for further replies.
I wouldn't mind trying to open up some space to bring in a youngish reclamation project or two

We need to get younger and faster and that's one way I think we can do it without it costing us a fortune

I'm still definitely trading Matthews if he isn't guaranteed to resign, Nylander is a must move since I don't want to give him his new deal and I'd see what's available for Marner

I think those guys need to go for young roster players, prospects and high draft picks if they are moving though
 
Man I don’t get why so many of you want dubas fired
U cling on to whatever stats helps you prove whatever point your trying to make

Where everyone else sees on the ice a matthews and marner that hurt us as much as help us win games

Where are the stats with all the dumb turnovers and shy away from the hard parts of the ice to avoid contact. I bet you also justify a huge raise for these two

Keep on with these two
We’re going far

Well, there are stats for turnovers. Both had a lot more in the Florida series than the Tampa series.

There are also numbers for going to hard parts of the ice. Board battles and puck battles won. Chances in certain areas of the ice. Hits taken and hits received. All of which Tavares was among the best in the league FWIW, and Matthews was up there in many of those categories as well. Of course, not everyone can/should be doing those things; one of Tavares' greatest issues is being caught up in hard parts of the ice rather than finding some softer spots to get off better shots and using his hands/skill more.

And more often than not, these stats are just as, if not more, accurate and telling of what went right and wrong than even what the professionals see... So you can imagine that it is certainly more reliable than the eye test of the average fan.

Of course, you need someone who actually understands them and knows how to use them properly... Which is another thing an average fan cannot do. So they are either thrown around with reckless abandon and you get a whole bunch of terribly misinformed conclusions floating around or you get people who do not trust it at all (probably from a mix of not understanding it and seeing a lot of these terrible conclusions and therefore thinking that all conclusions are terrible).

The stats say that Matthews + Marner were not very good in the Florida series. They generated chances and certainly had many great opportunities to score. If you didn't see that, well then why exactly should anyone trust your eye test? But of course, they also had some bad giveaways and other things that were less than desirable. Stats also say that. In the Tampa series, most of those numbers were a lot better for those two, and to what should be nobody's surprise, they were a lot better players in the Tampa series and we won it in 6 games.
 
You have a ~100 pt winger
2 80-90 pt wingers (Fiala and Nylander)
JT (70-80 pt winger/center)

You easily make the playoffs with that team, its basically a better version of the current Kings forward group).

Probably still a 1st/2nd round exit though as the Wingers+JT are still going to choke and we'll lose out on Matthews potential for dynamite games
Marner is not a 100 pt winger with Matthews as his centre and you think he will be with Tavares and o Reilly lol and then he'll vanish again if we make the playoffs because he will become the target or defences.

JT is being evicerated for his 5 on 5 play here, so please be consistent.

Fiala and Willy playing on the same line with Danault at centre is a joke we're going to get waxed in round 1 if we make it
 
I am not disputing anything you are saying. I am just countering that Matthews + Marner did actually play fairly well together against Tampa... And had they kept that up, then we are probably in the Conference Finals right now.

Now the issue with them not keeping it up is another thing, but it is also a thing that I don't think gets solved by swapping Nylander and Marner. Especially when they are still getting their chances.

If Matthews + Marner were getting completely stifled for opportunities, then maybe it makes sense to switch their lines. But if your players are getting Grade A chance after Grade A chance and simply can't convert, switching up the lines won't do much. Why would you? The lines are working exactly how you want them to work. Players need to do their jobs.

It's an unfortunate recurring theme that I am sure frustrates the coaches and management more than the players. It is basic execution and fundamentals that other teams seem to be able to get more than us. And IDC what coach or what system you are running, you are not having much success if you fumble pucks, can't complete basic passes, make mistakes with limited pressure, or miss Grade A chances time after time. And that is what happened to us. Maurice and Cooper (and the other coaches before them) didn't do anything special other than playing aggressive on the forecheck and clogging up the middle of the ice. Sure that made it hard to just jam pucks in or clean up garbage, but it is not like it prevented us from having more than enough opportunities to score. And then usually at the other end (fortunately not in these playoffs for once), our guys just make a sloppy play or our goalie gives up a weak goal and the other team can just squeak by after that.

I know some people who have worked in NHL front offices and they said that the two most frustrating places to be are either being a mediocre team in limbo so you are not good enough to really make noise but also not bad enough to get picks and players that can set you up for the future, and having a very well-constructed team that can absolutely win but can't get the job done. Because in the end, what do they do? Short of finding some unicorn deal where they get an amazing package which makes the team better by trading one of the better players in the league, their choices are to either stay the course and continue doing their jobs well by setting up the team for success and hope they eventually get the job done, or to make the team worse and finding a new mix of players who can hopefully can get the job done instead. Dubas has chosen the former, but I guess eventually they'll need to go with the latter.
Good post, definitely agreed it is something more fundamental than player pairings, size, style etc. I'm not sure if it is team culture or what but they definitely mess up basic stuff way more in key games, whether that is not picking corners on shots, unforced giveaways etc. One of the reasons I think you saw such a high turnover of the roster at the deadline was to have a bit of a culture change.

I think management is getting to the point of the latter as regarding your final point. I'm not sure if this group has 'it', the burden of failure is also sitting really heavy on their shoulders it seems. My guess is they roll it back 1 more time and hope that having got the 1st round monkey off their back the previous year helps shake things up. The worry is of course the big contracts coming up if you want to keep the band together.
 
  • Like
Reactions: kb
Good post, definitely agreed it is something more fundamental than player pairings, size, style etc. I'm not sure if it is team culture or what but they definitely mess up basic stuff way more in key games, whether that is not picking corners on shots, unforced giveaways etc. One of the reasons I think you saw such a high turnover of the roster at the deadline was to have a bit of a culture change.

I think management is getting to the point of the latter as regarding your final point. I'm not sure if this group has 'it', the burden of failure is also sitting really heavy on their shoulders it seems. My guess is they roll it back 1 more time and hope that having got the 1st round monkey off their back the previous year helps shake things up. The worry is of course the big contracts coming up if you want to keep the band together.

Why do you think it will be different next year? Why didn't the first round monkey being off their back this year didn't shake things up? You're not going to win with 3 guys taking up 11M on the cap. Take a look around the league and how many of the remaining teams have such salary structure? The team is built wrong.
 
Why do you think it will be different next year? Why didn't the first round monkey being off their back this year didn't shake things up? You're not going to win with 3 guys taking up 11M on the cap. Take a look around the league and how many of the remaining teams have such salary structure? The team is built wrong.
I mean, Florida has 3 players taking up 30m, Edmonton does as well. Even Vegas has about 29m. Even Dallas is pushing 28-29 for 3 players. The only team that doesn’t have a lot of cap locked up to 3 players is Carolina.

More teams are also going to the style of the leafs as well, Colorado as a recent example.

you can say Matthews should be a 10m player, Marner 9m and Tavares 8m or whatever. That’s a different story.

The roster construction is fine. Most teams ain’t gonna win when their stars shit the bed
 
  • Like
Reactions: kb
Well, there are stats for turnovers. Both had a lot more in the Florida series than the Tampa series.

There are also numbers for going to hard parts of the ice. Board battles and puck battles won. Chances in certain areas of the ice. Hits taken and hits received. All of which Tavares was among the best in the league FWIW, and Matthews was up there in many of those categories as well. Of course, not everyone can/should be doing those things; one of Tavares' greatest issues is being caught up in hard parts of the ice rather than finding some softer spots to get off better shots and using his hands/skill more.

And more often than not, these stats are just as, if not more, accurate and telling of what went right and wrong than even what the professionals see... So you can imagine that it is certainly more reliable than the eye test of the average fan.

Of course, you need someone who actually understands them and knows how to use them properly... Which is another thing an average fan cannot do. So they are either thrown around with reckless abandon and you get a whole bunch of terribly misinformed conclusions floating around or you get people who do not trust it at all (probably from a mix of not understanding it and seeing a lot of these terrible conclusions and therefore thinking that all conclusions are terrible).

The stats say that Matthews + Marner were not very good in the Florida series. They generated chances and certainly had many great opportunities to score. If you didn't see that, well then why exactly should anyone trust your eye test? But of course, they also had some bad giveaways and other things that were less than desirable. Stats also say that. In the Tampa series, most of those numbers were a lot better for those two, and to what should be nobody's surprise, they were a lot better players in the Tampa series and we won it in 6 games.
Ok
You are right and matthews and marner are elite
Even in the playoffs so we are in great hands and the future looks great lol
Thank god because the past is quite miserable
I now understand why these boys have the contracts they have and why their next ones will be even greater and hand cuff the leafs so much more
Because these are the arguments used in that process and also why the leafs are the laughing stock of the league once again for another pathetic playoff run

The fact that you can’t admit that they weren’t great in Tampa series even though numbers suggests it and you probably think we were better then Tampa unlike most people tells me allot anyways. We were incredibly lucky to win that one and the horrid production by those two in an easier series is laughable. The “ greatest scorer in the league” couldn’t score a damn goal lol

You look at stats that help your argument like a dubas then I guess him not having a contract and everything he has done is now being questioned. we are in the state we are in and he along with his minions are about to be let go

GLG
 
Minten is like two years out at best
We have to hope one of our other prospects we're marinading in the minors is ready to step up
I don’t think we have another that has #2C potential. Bunch of 3rd, 4th liners, and you don’t shift JT for a fringe 2C :(
 
Marner to NYR for K’Andre Miller and Alex Lafreniere.
There's no chance Marner is traded for K'Andre Miller. Rangers would say no. If Marner had a long term contract, then I suppose it's possible, but they view Miller as a core piece and one of their most untouchable players. They expect him to be one of the top 2 or 3 best Rangers defenseman for the next decade.
 
If the Hurricanes lose to the Panthers, thoughts on a trade around Marner for Pesce, Jarvis +

Marner is a superstar that Carolina lacks. Jarvis has a huge motor and has 1st line potential and Pesce would be the leafs best defensive d man

Carolina’s offence would be


Svech Aho Marner
Teravainen Kotkaniemi Necas
I've talked to Canes fans about this. Carolina's offseason next summer is gonna be really difficult with lots of choices about who is staying and who is going. They wouldn't mind adding Matthews because his contract also expires next summer. but committing just under 11 million in cap space to Marner beyond next summer isn't something they're interested in.

Also, I've seen some Canes fans be okay with Jarvis/Necas and Pesce and 1st rounder and prospect for Matthews, but you definitely won't get Jarvis/Necas and Pesce for Marner from them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ShameOnYouZidlicky
here is a blockbuster trade
To Toronto
Owen Power
Dylan Cozens
Zemgus Girgensons
3 first round pick 2023 draft
To Buffalo
Austin Mathews 50% retained
Mitch Marner

this is the type of trade Toronto needs to do
Power is worth way more than Matthews @ 50%
actually even Cozens is worth more than Matthews @ 50% IMO
I think Cozens is probably worth more than Marner as well but maybe not

One thing people need to understand and remember : "Matthews" no longer exists as a trade chip. It's "1 year of Matthews", which isn't the same thing and doesn't have the same trade value. Even with Marner, he has 2 years, it isn't 4 or more years, so teams won't sell their entire prospect pool and roster just to get him.
 
I mean, Florida has 3 players taking up 30m, Edmonton does as well. Even Vegas has about 29m. Even Dallas is pushing 28-29 for 3 players. The only team that doesn’t have a lot of cap locked up to 3 players is Carolina.

More teams are also going to the style of the leafs as well, Colorado as a recent example.

you can say Matthews should be a 10m player, Marner 9m and Tavares 8m or whatever. That’s a different story.

The roster construction is fine. Most teams ain’t gonna win when their stars shit the bed

Florida’s 3 includes a goalie. Edmonton’s 3 includes a defenseman. Vegas’ includes a defenseman. Colorado’s and Dallas’ also include a defenseman.

None of them have 30 million in 3 forwards.
 
I'll probably get bbqd but what's thoughts on this deal ;

Nylander
Brodie
For
Meier (rfa signed)
Severson
Clarke

here is a blockbuster trade
To Toronto
Owen Power
Dylan Cozens
Zemgus Girgensons
3 first round pick 2023 draft
To Buffalo
Austin Mathews 50% retained
Mitch Marner

this is the type of trade Toronto needs to do
That would make games against Buffalo interesting..lol
 
There's no chance Marner is traded for K'Andre Miller. Rangers would say no. If Marner had a long term contract, then I suppose it's possible, but they view Miller as a core piece and one of their most untouchable players. They expect him to be one of the top 2 or 3 best Rangers defenseman for the next decade.
i freaking love your display picture :biglaugh:
 
  • Love
Reactions: lanceuppercut75
I'll probably get bbqd but what's thoughts on this deal ;

Nylander
Brodie
For
Meier (rfa signed)
Severson
Clarke


That would make games against Buffalo interesting..lol
Nylander and Brodie are 1 year rentals, Severson is a pending UFA, Clarke may or may not be an NHLer soon, sort of like Holmberg on the Leafs. I think this is the kind of deal that MAYBE makes sense to the Devils if Nylander has at least 2 years left on his contract and not only 1.

On the other hand, they really need a big tough gritty player in their top 9. Meier is mostly their only guy like that. Trading him out for a skill guy who isn't tough or gritty doesn't help their overall roster makeup going forward, in terms of being a team looking for playoff success.

The guy that the Devils would be targeting from us for sure is Knies, who we can't trade right now while his cap hit is so low and he's providing so much for our team for that low cap hit.
 
After Oilers being eliminated - purely hypothetically - in this scenario a frustrated McDavid makes it known to management that he is planning to sign as a UFA in 3 summers with a different playoff team if the Oilers aren't in the finals by then, and he leans heavily towards Toronto.

Base of the trade, almost cap neutral (opens tiny bit of space for EDM) :

Marner
Nylander (@50%)
Brodie (@80%)
Liljegren
Samsonov

for

McDavid
Yamamoto
Ceci
Kulak
Campbell

...and then I'm guessing Toronto adds picks / prospects, that part I'm less interested in determining than how to make the roster player part work. But yes, there would likely be other pieces here as well.

Toronto is told straight up that McDavid for Marner and Nylander plus is possible but there's absolutely no chance in hell it happens without Campbell in the trade. The rest of the roster player swaps are centered around providing flexibility and a good 23/24 roster for Oilers, with Leafs losing every other aspect of the trade in order to win the "Marner becomes McDavid" aspect. Basically, bending over backwards to cater to Edmonton, just so long as they can get McDavid.

The whole Auston Matthews situation can be dealt with after this, whether it's extending him long term or making another huge trade and shaking up the roster for a second time. Leafs trade Matt Murray and a pick to Chicago, who either keeps him or buys him out.

orange = UFA next summer

Hyman - Draisaitl - Nylander
Kane - Nugent-Hopkins - Marner
Foegele - McLeod - Holloway
(free agent) - (free agent) - Kostin

Ekholm - Bouchard
Nurse -
Brodie
Broberg - Liljegren
Desharnais

Samsonov

Skinner

Knies - McDavid - Yamamoto
Tavares -
Matthews - Jarnkrok
Robertson - Holmberg -
(free agent)
(Aston-Reese)
- (Kampf) - Lafferty

Rielly - (Schenn / free agent)
McCabe - Ceci
Kulak - Timmins

Giordano

Woll
Campbell
 
Trade
Mathews and Marner + JT when his buddies leave

Debrincat got a 1st ( 7th overall) 2nd and a 3rf rd pks

I think the best that we can get for them would be
Mathews 2 1st rd pks 2nd + nhl ready top prospect
Marner the same
JT retain half his contract hope we get a 2nd rd pk

If we could come away with
4 1st rd pks
3 2nd rd pks
2 nhl ready top prospects

We will probably have to take on a bad contract
 
Florida’s 3 includes a goalie. Edmonton’s 3 includes a defenseman. Vegas’ includes a defenseman. Colorado’s and Dallas’ also include a defenseman.

None of them have 30 million in 3 forwards.
I mean up until the second round, everyone thought Nurse and Bobs contracts are terrible.
 
Trade
Mathews and Marner + JT when his buddies leave

Debrincat got a 1st ( 7th overall) 2nd and a 3rf rd pks

I think the best that we can get for them would be
Mathews 2 1st rd pks 2nd + nhl ready top prospect
Marner the same
JT retain half his contract hope we get a 2nd rd pk

If we could come away with
4 1st rd pks
3 2nd rd pks
2 nhl ready top prospects

We will probably have to take on a bad contract
So you want to rebuild for at least a year or two and not try to make the playoffs? That's a valid but unpopular take.
 
I wouldn't mind trying to open up some space to bring in a youngish reclamation project or two

We need to get younger and faster and that's one way I think we can do it without it costing us a fortune

I'm still definitely trading Matthews if he isn't guaranteed to resign, Nylander is a must move since I don't want to give him his new deal and I'd see what's available for Marner

I think those guys need to go for young roster players, prospects and high draft picks if they are moving though

The Leafs need to decide on Dubas as soon as possible in order to get the ball rolling. If they intend to keep him, then let him decide as soon as possible how to proceed with the changes required, whether that's Matthews, Marner and/or Nylander or none of them this off-season. They have to stop dancing around this looming issue and decide who they intend to keep long-term and trade who can't be kept. We're getting to a point where this needs to be done and letting someone walk for free would be idiotic.

One player that I think the Leafs should sell relatively high on is Brodie. He's been a great defenseman here but you can see some of the regression and I'd be very wary of his extension. If the Leafs can extend Schenn to a short term deal, with Liljegren and Timmins, and potentially Niemela not far behind, maybe trading Brodie could be wise.

I agree 100% the Leafs need to get faster, especially on defense. The balance needs to get fine tuned overall. With a lot of average veterans leaving this off-season, I do hope they give a shot to younger assets to take over. The other thing to get in order is goaltender.
 
Last edited:
Nucks fan offering Miller+ Beavuillier@50% + 11th for Marner. That's pretty much a perfect trade and I'd be stoked if it was announced at 9am this morning (it's not).
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad