Post Deadline Transactions and Signings

[Americanadian]

Pray Arizona wins the draft? 1st for Arizona boy Matthews?

We'll know by the end of the month if the Coyotes will even be in Arizona. I'd imagine Arizona, or any team that wins 1OA says no to that given Matthews is a pending UFA and Bedard comes with many years of control.

 

[Kiwi]

No matter who you trade in terms of core player, you're gonna lose the trade probably and it's gonna suck. That doesn't mean they can't be a better team for it. I kind of see it like when Boston gave up Joe Thornton for scraps and ended up being a contender for a long time. When Colorado had to ditch Duchene, they turned it around, I think we know what happened. Just 2 examples that jump out to me, there are probably other ones.

This isn't to say it can't completely blow up in the Leafs face if they make a franchise defining trade, but I hope whoever makes that trade isn't someone like Brian Burke or Chuck Fletcher.

We don't need to blow it up but we could do a hard retool or reset over a 2 year window and try again once Tavares is no longer on the books because his contract is going to be a problem while we're trying to compete

Keep who's worth keeping but trade the other guys for quality prospects and high picks (if possible) who should be good competitive players in a couple of years

 

[Americanadian]

It might not necessarily fall into that exact pattern. But say Marner for TJ Miller + another player from Vancouver

That made me throw up in my mouth. I can't imagine the Leafs bringing in a GM so incompetent that would do that.

I mentioned Pageau+Dobson for Marner earlier which is kind of along those guidelines although Dobson is 3 years younger than Marner. After doing minimal research on Dobson and his on-ice impact that would be a non-starter for me.

 

[WillNy29]

I personally wouldn't do that trade either, but I'm just worried that it's the type of thing that might end up happening. Kyle Connor could potentially be a target. He's a lesser player than Marner but signed for cheaper longer term - something else that may happen.

Kyle Connor can score. Matthews with Kyle Connor on his line would make for a successful duo.

 

[Americanadian]

I'd look to pry Kyle Connor out of Winnipeg based around Marner.

I'd be ok with this given Connor's contract but in a 1 for 1 trade he'd be compared to Marner for the remainder of their careers and that would not work out well. A Marner trade almost has to be a quantity for quality trade to distribute the pressure among the incoming players.

 

[Menzinger]

That made me throw up in my mouth. I can't imagine the Leafs bringing in a GM so incompetent that would do that.

I mentioned Pageau+Dobson for Marner earlier which is kind of along those guidelines although Dobson is 3 years younger than Marner. After doing minimal research on Dobson and his on-ice impact that would be a non-starter for me.

Definitely doesn't make me feel good lol.

Something like that Dobson trade could potentially work. And hopefully my concern is premature, but I do think that whatever major trade is made, it's going to be made with more of a 'win now' mindset.

With the right moves It doesn't necessarily need to be a disaster either. We'll have a better idea of what will happen once we know firmly one way or the other who the GM is

 

[WillNy29]

I'd be ok with this given Connor's contract but in a 1 for 1 trade he'd be compared to Marner for the remainder of their careers and that would not work out well. A Marner trade almost has to be a quantity for quality trade to distribute the pressure among the incoming players.

You will unequivocally lose a quantity for quality trade for Marner.

We're in a situation where whoever we trade we are going to lose. If we trade Matthews we will likely not find a big 1C again for probably a decade. and he will go on to win a cup elsewhere. It's not a great position to be in

 

[Americanadian]

Definitely doesn't make me feel good lol.

Something like that Dobson trade could potentially work. And hopefully my concern is premature, but I do think that whatever major trade is made, it's going to be made with more of a 'win now' mindset.

With the right moves It doesn't necessarily need to be a disaster either. We'll have a better idea of what will happen once we know firmly one way or the other who the GM is

What concerns me is we really don't know who is hiring the new GM and what their tolerance is for taking a step back and acquiring younger players in exchange for the big names on the team right now.

 

[ToneDog]

I personally wouldn't do that trade either, but I'm just worried that it's the type of thing that might end up happening. Kyle Connor could potentially be a target. He's a lesser player than Marner but signed for cheaper longer term - something else that may happen.

I said Nylander + for Helly and Connor was told no. LOL.

 

[Americanadian]

You will unequivocally lose a quantity for quality trade for Marner.

We're in a situation where whoever we trade we are going to lose. If we trade Matthews we will likely not find a big 1C again for probably a decade. and he will go on to win a cup elsewhere. It's not a great position to be in

Take a Jarvis+Morrow+23 1st for Marner deal. It's a loss on pure talent but the Leafs free up 10M on the cap immediately which allows them flexibility to really do anything they want. Jarvis and Marner are up for new contracts at the same time. I am guessing Marner will make 7M more than Jarvis. You are looking at 7M in savings for the foreseeable future and you're now paying Jarvis through his prime instead of Marner through his decline. Then you include Morrow who is truly a wildcard but with loads of potential. If he signs after next season you have a 22 year old RHD with real top 4 potential playing 2 years on an ELC. The Leafs then have 7M in savings left to spend on another impact player.

The Matthews deal I proposed was Clarke, Byfield, Walker, Iaffalo for Matthews @50%. The Leafs immediately lose 1.75M on the cap. Once Matthews/Walker expire and Matthews gets 14M?, 15M? the Leafs will have 2 more seasons of Clarke on his ELC and Byfield will be starting a new contract off his low point totals at 19/20 years old. Let's say a bridge deal at 3M. The Leafs will save 6M in a world where Matthews gets 14M.

You're looking at 13M future savings (projected contracts) while picking up 4 players who are currently 20 or younger who can realistically be top line players - including two 6'2 RHD which is arguably the most valuable asset in the NHL today.

Add in the Nylander deal I proposed of Garland+Myers+11 OA for Nylander and you're looking at even more cap savings after next season (assuming the alternative is re-signing all 3).

 

[Smif]

Columbus has the prospects I want and the motivation to move ahead from where they currently are. They've showed interest in Marner before and they probably like the idea of Marner setting up Gaudreau. Without looking I'm assuming they have the cap space.

 

[WillNy29]

Take a Jarvis+Morrow+23 1st for Marner deal. It's a loss on pure talent but the Leafs free up 10M on the cap immediately which allows them flexibility to really do anything they want. Jarvis and Marner are up for new contracts at the same time. I am guessing Marner will make 7M more than Jarvis. You are looking at 7M in savings for the foreseeable future and you're now paying Jarvis through his prime instead of Marner through his decline. Then you include Morrow who is truly a wildcard but with loads of potential. If he signs after next season you have a 22 year old RHD with real top 4 potential playing 2 years on an ELC. The Leafs then have 7M in savings left to spend on another impact player.

The Matthews deal I proposed was Clarke, Byfield, Walker, Iaffalo for Matthews @50%. The Leafs immediately lose 1.75M on the cap. Once Matthews/Walker expire and Matthews gets 14M?, 15M? the Leafs will have 2 more seasons of Clarke on his ELC and Byfield will be starting a new contract off his low point totals at 19/20 years old. Let's say a bridge deal at 3M. The Leafs will save 6M in a world where Matthews gets 14M.

You're looking at 13M future savings (projected contracts) while picking up 4 players who are currently 20 or younger who can realistically be top line players - including two 6'2 RHD which is arguably the most valuable asset in the NHL today.

Add in the Nylander deal I proposed of Garland+Myers+11 OA for Nylander and you're looking at even more cap savings after next season (assuming the alternative is re-signing all 3).

guess what you're also looking at with these deals except for cap space...consistently missing the playoffs and not having a 1C again for a decade like I mentioned before. So all this wall of text and no actual solution. Guess we can win the cap space cup

 

[TMLAM34]

Matthews and Marner should be off the table regardless of their second round playoff production.

Tavares and Nylander fair play.

 

[Kiwi]

You will unequivocally lose a quantity for quality trade for Marner.

We're in a situation where whoever we trade we are going to lose. If we trade Matthews we will likely not find a big 1C again for probably a decade. and he will go on to win a cup elsewhere. It's not a great position to be in

We aren't winning **** with our big 1C who's done another disappearing act and he's going to want to be paid like somebody who's won something

He's not even willing to stand up for himself and gets bullied every playoffs

If that's your leadership no wonder were getting punted early every year

 

[Jozay]

Yeah, Leafs are cooked looking at some of these Marner deals lol.

 

[Kiwi]

Matthews and Marner should be off the table regardless of their second round playoff production.

Tavares and Nylander fair play.

Why? What the **** have they done that makes them worth keeping?

They pull a complete no show but we have to keep those guys, I mean where else can you get Jack **** from 2 guys making 11M each?

 

[WillNy29]

We aren't winning **** with our big 1C who's done another disappearing act and he's going to want to be paid like somebody who's won something

He's not even willing to stand up for himself and gets bullied every playoffs

If that's your leadership no wonder were getting punted early every year

hey man I don't know what to tell you, our last big 1C didn't win either.

but if you want to be without a number 1 centre for a long time again then go for it. We'll just have to deal without one again for a decade

 

[Americanadian]

guess what you're also looking at with these deals except for cap space...consistently missing the playoffs and not having a 1C again for a decade like I mentioned before. So all this wall of text and no actual solution. Guess we can win the cap space cup

With all 3 trades I proposed you still have a playoff team. The core of the team is still very strong and there are good players.

Woll's numbers were off the charts this year but let's say he's worth 2 wins in a season you're still talking about a 97 point team without filling in the blanks. Then you fill in the blanks with UFA's and trades.

 

[WillNy29]

With all 3 trades I proposed you still have a playoff team. The core of the team is still very strong and there are good players.

View attachment 704835
Woll's numbers were off the charts this year but let's say he's worth 2 wins in a season you're still talking about a 97 point team without filling in the blanks. Then you fill in the blanks with UFA's and trades.

lmao the problem is we have by field as our 2c and an aging slowing down Tavares as 1C who are now going to have to take up the best match ups on the ice like Matthews does. Once again enjoy missing the playoffs or squeaking in an losing in round 1 as we won't have a proper star 1C

 

[Americanadian]

lmao the problem is we have by field as our 2c and an aging slowing down Tavares as 1C who are now going to have to take up the best match ups on the ice like Matthews does. Once again enjoy missing the playoffs or squeaking in an losing in round 1 as we won't have a proper star 1C

The Leafs win 1 round in the Matthews era and all of a sudden they can't live without him?

I'm not saying that team I proposed is a contender next year but they should make the playoffs. I'd prefer they make those trades and take a step back so they can add another top 15 pick then go all-in in 24-25 with Brodie/Murray/Walker/Myers/Matthews retention off the books. They'd have ample cap space to make moves. Basically exactly what Carolina is doing right now where they can acquire players like Burns and Pacioretty and Gostisbehere for next to nothing.

 

[WillNy29]

The Leafs win 1 round in the Matthews era and all of a sudden they can't live without him?

I'm not saying that team I proposed is a contender next year but they should make the playoffs. I'd prefer they make those trades and take a step back so they can add another top 15 pick then go all-in in 24-25 with Brodie/Murray/Walker/Myers/Matthews retention off the books. They'd have ample cap space to make moves. Basically exactly what Carolina is doing right now where they can acquire players like Burns and Pacioretty and Gostisbehere for next to nothing.

yes but the canes also have 1C which we will not have once we trade ours away. You haven't addressed the main issue here. You're also forgetting Buffalo, Ottawa and Detroit making a big jump so likely to miss the playoffs if we downgrade the team and don't actually get quality out of the quantity we trade for. You win building up the middle and if we don't do that we'll have the Kessel years again.

 

[Kiwi]

hey man I don't know what to tell you, our last big 1C didn't win either.

but if you want to be without a number 1 centre for a long time again then go for it. We'll just have to deal without one again for a decade

We went multiple rounds multiple times with Sundin
We even beat teams who were favored over us

One 2nd round appearance in 7 years isn't even close to what those teams achieved
Especially when you consider how many times we've lost to worse teams

I'd rather not have one than overpay the failure with zero pushback we've got now

 

[Smif]

yes but the canes also have 1C which we will not have once we trade ours away. You haven't addressed the main issue here. You're also forgetting Buffalo, Ottawa and Detroit making a big jump so likely to miss the playoffs if we downgrade the team and don't actually get quality out of the quantity we trade for. You win building up the middle and if we don't do that we'll have the Kessel years again.

I agree with not trading Matthews because you need strength down the middle. Our prospects are most W's as well with Knies and Robertson able to fill a wingers position. Move Willy and Murray and re-sign ROR, Bunting and Samsonov, then promote Holmberg and then use cap savings on some size for the bottom 6.

 

[WillNy29]

We went multiple rounds multiple times with Sundin
We even beat teams who were favored over us

One 2nd round appearance in 7 years isn't even close to what those teams achieved
Especially when you consider how many times we've lost to worse teams

I'd rather not have one than overpay the failure with zero pushback we've got now

oh wow we went so far and lost; I don't give a f*** about how much consolation prizes those teams won. they like the current batch were all losers at the end of the day. Pushback and beating the odds mean nothing if you fall short anyways. but the one constant was we had a big 1C. So in order to make it to the playoffs you need that and if we trade it away without getting a fair deal (which we never will in a trade like that), is going to lead to another decade of missing the playoffs.

I agree with not trading Matthews because you need strength down the middle. Our prospects are most W's as well with Knies and Robertson able to fill a wingers position. Move Willy and Murray and re-sign ROR, Bunting and Samsonov, then promote Holmberg and then use cap savings on some size for the bottom 6.

I would trade Mitch and round out the defence. Willy is not going to make more than 9m and at that price point he's gold.

 

[Smif]

oh wow we went so far and lost; I don't give a f*** about how much consolation prizes those teams won. they like the current batch were all losers at the end of the day. Pushback and beating the odds mean nothing if you fall short anyways. but the one constant was we had a big 1C. So in order to make it to the playoffs you need that and if we trade it away without getting a fair deal (which we never will in a trade like that), is going to lead to another decade of missing the playoffs.


I would trade Mitch and round out the defence. Willy is not going to make more than 9m and at that price point he's gold.

For a $2M difference I keep Mitch over Willy all day. Just the production alone he's worth more than that difference. The big thing tho, Marner makes everyone he plays with better, Willy can't play with JT. There's also the PK factor on top of that.