Post Deadline Transactions and Signings

[Kurtz]

Could it be that Justin Holl brings nothing else to the NHL and if he is unable to read and react in the defensive zone that there is 0 reason for him to every step foot in the NHL? His skating, on ice decision making/vision, and puck skills are average in the AHL.

He's an average NHL third pairing dman, making below average money, forced into playing a top shutdown role for most of the season and doing a passable job of it. The flak he gets is unwarranted, but in all my years of being a Leafs fan I've yet to see a season where the fanbase didn't have the pitchforks out for a dman. If Holl wasn't here it'd just be someone else.

Against Tampa, he played 5 games, mostly defensive deployment and finished the series +2. Blaming him for all our ills seems harsh.

 

[Lemontree]

He's an average NHL third pairing dman, making below average money, forced into playing a top shutdown role for most of the season and doing a passable job of it. The flak he gets is unwarranted, but in all my years of being a Leafs fan I've yet to see a season where the fanbase didn't have the pitchforks out for a dman. If Holl wasn't here it'd just be someone else.

Actually if you have a look at the majority of teams bottom pairing Dmen you will find that most of them make less than $1M.

 

[Kurtz]

Actually if you have a look at the majority of teams bottom pairing Dmen you will find that most of them make less than $1M.

Average league salary is $3.5m. He makes $2m while playing over 20 minutes a night - mostly hard minutes with defensive deployment against opponents' better lines.

 

[BayStBullies]

I know people are angry about Kerfoot; but, I like playoff Kerfoot. I think the roster is fine. They just need to figure out who is starting (even if Woll), stabilize systems, and bring up Knies.

 

[rocketman588]

I mean honestly it's a solid deadline but I think it's a deadline that can win a round I'm not sure if it's a deadline that can get us a cup. Especially with Boston but who knows

 

[Lemontree]

Against Tampa, he played 5 games, mostly defensive deployment and finished the series +2. Blaming him for all our ills seems harsh.

We lost 3 of the 5 games he played in. Call it harsh if you want and he isn't being blamed for all the team issues. Its noticing what the team issues are and knowing that Justin Holl does not help neutralize or cover up any of those issues.

 

[rocketman588]

That's my feeling too. Yeah, advanced stats can be useful, but it seems like you keep running into the problem of players having good advanced stats, but being clear liabilities for reasons that don't show up on the sheet. There's a reason I mentioned Jake Gardiner, because him and Holl have the same problem; pressure tends to cause them to have brainfarts. All the advanced stats in the world don't matter if the other team knows that the player will break if you throw the puck into the corner and then run at them.

The big disconnect for players like that is that giveaways are undercounted so they don't show up in advanced stats.

They only count a giveaway on the score sheet if it directly leads to a goal or is a terrible one

Turnovers needs to be a counted stat

 

[rojac]

I mean honestly it's a solid deadline but I think it's a deadline that can win a round I'm not sure if it's a deadline that can get us a cup. Especially with Boston but who knows

I see absolutely no reason to give up hope until the team is actually eliminated.

 

[TheRumble]

The big disconnect for players like that is that giveaways are undercounted so they don't show up in advanced stats.

They only count a giveaway on the score sheet if it directly leads to a goal or is a terrible one

Turnovers needs to be a counted stat

Turnovers are a stat. They're just not useful because it's a highly contextual stat.

Example 1: Guy attempts a zone entry, gives away the puck and leads to an odd man rush.

Example 2: Team is in the offensive zone, guy is attempting to make a pass to the slot but it's intercepted. The other team attempts to rush out but the dmen and the center recognize that a turnover happened and get back in the neutral zone to turn a 3 on 2 into a 3 on 3.

Two turnovers but 1 is very obviously worse than the other. There's no way to measure that by simply saying we had two turnovers though.

 

[rocketman588]

Turnovers are a stat. They're just not useful because it's a highly contextual stat.

Example 1: Guy attempts a zone entry, gives away the puck and leads to an odd man rush.

Example 2: Team is in the offensive zone, guy is attempting to make a pass to the slot but it's intercepted. The other team attempts to rush out but the dmen and the center recognize that a turnover happened and get back in the neutral zone to turn a 3 on 2 into a 3 on 3.

Two turnovers but 1 is very obviously worse than the other. There's no way to measure that by simply saying we had two turnovers though.

They're not really counted as an individual stat at all however.

The giveaway (turnover Stat) is horribly done imo

Even in the second example you're still losing an ok offensive opportunity. It's why Holl is overrated a little by advanced stats

 

[stickty111]

Final thoughts
I give this deadline a solid B+ but even A- I see an argument.
We got a legit top 4 guy with control and didn't pay a huge price for it. Upgraded the D core in an impactful way.
Made the 4th line a strength in 2 moves with Acciari and Lafferty. Both add a speed and physicality dimension which was so badly needed. You don't have to hide this line either now.
Improved the depth on D too all though I think adding Schenn is overdoing it. Still he should help us as long as Keefe doesn't over use him.
The Engvall trade I find odd now. I kind of get why they did it, but I think removing a NHL forward isn't a great idea.
The Sandin trade I like more that I have thought about it. I said Id like if we used the 1st to get another player, but that wasn't available. Getting value for Sandin was smart when he likely wasn't going to play here.

I would have liked another forward but it's hardly a big problem. Just means you are relying on Knies or another prospect which is fine.

Dubas has pretty much addressed every weakness. As much as the core needs to step up now, Keefe has to make this work. His usage and lineup decisions need to be spot on. He has no excuse. Dubas has given him a playoff roster.

 

[BertCorbeau]

What I like about the moves that rebuilt the bottom 6 is that all of a sudden the hope/expectation that Knies would come in and transform that group has been quashed, and that any contributions he can give are an added bonus

I hope they give McMann a chance .. there was something about his game, in terms of that extra bit of effort to grind and win battles, that makes me think he's a gamer. Then again Holmberg is a very smart player that is strong defensively, shown some flashes of skill, and doesn't get pushed around either.

 

[rojac]

What I like about the moves that rebuilt the bottom 6 is that all of a sudden the hope/expectation that Knies would come in and transform that group has been quashed, and that any contributions he can give are an added bonus

I hope they give McMann a chance .. there was something about his game, in terms of that extra bit of effort to grind and win battles, that makes me think he's a gamer. Then again Holmberg is a very smart player that is strong defensively, shown some flashes of skill, and doesn't get pushed around either.

I suspect we’ll see Holmberg and/or McMann get some more time with the team. The Leafs have room for one more inexpensive player. That will eventually be Knies, but until then, they may as well use the slot on ne of the Marlies.

 

[kb]

I suspect we’ll see Holmberg and/or McMann get some more time with the team. The Leafs have room for one more inexpensive player. That will eventually be Knies, but until then, they may as well use the slot on ne of the Marlies.

I think McMann with his run of 15 G in 15 GP really deserves another look. Sure he had no points in the 8 games he played, but for the first 5-6 he was really helping to tilt the ice, and he hit at least 2 posts that I can recall. Those go in and his first run probably continues longer.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

100% agreed.

So basically you just dislike context.

 

[ICBM]

No proven starter.
No real pp quarterback.
No number one dman.
No top-6 power forward.
No shutdown dman.
No 3 line center.

How many of those you can address in one deadline? Drafting and developing, drafting and developing only. Successfuly.

It took Yzerman 5 years to reach playoff final by the way.

 

[Puckstuff]

Orlov, Bertuzzi, Hathaway
Vs
O’Reilly, McCabe, Schenn

This is pretty similar imo but the leafs have term on some of our guys, gave up less overall and got a couple decent 4th liners.

This was a pretty historic deadline, honestly. I think the Leafs had the best deadline and the bruins were 2nd.

 

[Dekes For Days]

No proven starter.
No real pp quarterback.
No number one dman.
No top-6 power forward.
No shutdown dman.
No 3 line center.

We literally have all of these.

 

[Isaac Nootin]

So basically you just dislike context.

No. I simply enjoy being factually correct.

 

[The Podium]

Could it be that Justin Holl brings nothing else to the NHL and if he is unable to read and react in the defensive zone that there is 0 reason for him to every step foot in the NHL? His skating, on ice decision making/vision, and puck skills are average in the AHL.

Holy hyperbole

 

[Vitto79]

9 D doesn’t happen yet no Holl for a F?

 

[Rob Brown]

Orlov, Bertuzzi, Hathaway
Vs
O’Reilly, McCabe, Schenn

This is pretty similar imo but the leafs have term on some of our guys, gave up less overall and got a couple decent 4th liners.

This was a pretty historic deadline, honestly. I think the Leafs had the best deadline and the bruins were 2nd.

Yeah, hard to be upset with what Dubas did, except for the people that irrationally hate everything he does.

 

[Jojalu]

The big disconnect for players like that is that giveaways are undercounted so they don't show up in advanced stats.

They only count a giveaway on the score sheet if it directly leads to a goal or is a terrible one

Turnovers needs to be a counted stat

They are counted. No it is not counred if it is a goal or whatever bad means.

 

[SprDaVE]

What I like about the moves that rebuilt the bottom 6 is that all of a sudden the hope/expectation that Knies would come in and transform that group has been quashed, and that any contributions he can give are an added bonus

I hope they give McMann a chance .. there was something about his game, in terms of that extra bit of effort to grind and win battles, that makes me think he's a gamer. Then again Holmberg is a very smart player that is strong defensively, shown some flashes of skill, and doesn't get pushed around either.

McMann is on fire so I think it's a good time to give him another shot to get his first NHL goal. But Holmberg has also been super good for the Marlies and was very solid on the Leafs.

I don't think you can go wrong with either forward and I think both give you a little more than ZAR.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Listening to 32 thoughts and learning that Leafs used Minny in the O’Reilly trade so Kerfoot could stay smh.