Possible trade and roster fixes for the Wings, Part III

[SoupNazi]

Greene for Mantha may work but not sure you might need to add like Kindl for cap purposes

The Wings aren't trading Mantha for Greene. The Wings, I'd venture to guess, have no desire to trade Mantha except for a legitimate number one defenseman or a top-six power forward; even then, I'm willing to bet they think long and hard about it first.

 

[Crymson]

Greene for Mantha may work but not sure you might need to add like Kindl for cap purposes

I'm sure that would work for New Jersey, but most certainly not for the Red Wings. Greene is a pretty good defenseman, sure, but he's not spectacular; more, he's 31, and has only one full season left on his current contract, after which he will demand quite a bit on the open market.

Not happening.

 

[Devils Army]

I'm sure that would work for New Jersey, but most certainly not for the Red Wings. Greene is a pretty good defenseman, sure, but he's not spectacular; more, he's 31, and has only one full season left on his current contract, after which he will demand quite a bit on the open market.

Not happening.

What else could we add? Trying not to give up our top defensive prospects.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

What else could we add? Trying not to give up our top defensive prospects.

to get mantha? to be honest unless larsson is coming our way the devils have absolutely nothing thats worth detroit moving anthony

 

[Kronwalled55]

Kronwall can not dictate the pace of a game the way a Doughty, Chara, Weber or Keith can. Those are true #1 Ds. Every team has a #1 D on their depth chart, but not all of those are true #1s. To be a true #1 at any position, would mean that that player could go to any other team in the league and arguably be that team's #1. It's not about points, its about being able to control the way the game is being played while that player is on the ice. Z and Datsyuk can do that at the forward position. Kronwall, while a very good dman, can not control a game on the defensive side.

Now, is a guy like that available? Probably not. Do the Wings have prospects coming up that may turn into that? Fingers crossed. Most likely, there is not a reasonably priced Dman out there that would significantly help the Wings compared to the price that would be necessary to move.

It's flawed reasoning though. Zetterberg is a #1 center with the talent, skills, and numbers he puts up, but he's not top 5 in the league or considered elite by most (anymore).

The whole "#1 ____" is all in interpretation. I believe a #1 defenseman is someone you could build a championship contender around. I honestly believe Kronwall is someone you can do that with. I would love to have someone just as good as he is as on the top pairing with him, and send Ericsson to the 2nd pairing with DeKeyser. This roster has proven that they can allow 2 or fewer on many nights just with the guys they have right now. The only bad cap hit on the defense could be coming off the books this offseason (Quincey), and that leaves a lot of room for improvement. Combine that with the chance of Howard putting together a good run, and all you need at that point is the offense to do their thing.

It's a shame that Zetterberg is practically done for the season, because last year showed that this team is certainly qualified to make a run in the playoffs. They just need to get the kinks out by getting rid of the dead weight that's keeping more deserving players on the market and in the minors from playing full time.

 

[jaster]

Zetterberg isn't elite anymore (current injury aside)? News to me.

 

[Kronwalled55]

Zetterberg isn't elite anymore (current injury aside)? News to me.

Once again, it's all perspective. If you stop counting after the top 5 as being elite... top 10... etc. I don't think Zetterberg is elite at this stage of his career. A top 10 center in the NHL, but not elite.

 

[Winger98]

Once again, it's all perspective. If you stop counting after the top 5 as being elite... top 10... etc. I don't think Zetterberg is elite at this stage of his career. A top 10 center in the NHL, but not elite.

He might not be top5 for 82 games of the regular season, but I can think of few centers I'd want more in the playoffs. As you said, depends how you want to define it. I think top5/10/whatever is a better definition that "elite." When I think of elite, I think of guys who define generations. Right now that might only be Crosby.

 

[Canuck Luck]

Vancouver-Detroit (yes edler)

Canuck fan coming in peace. I was wondering if Detroit would ever consider a deal like this:

To Vancouver:
Riley sheahan
Ryan sproul
Mikael Samuelsson
2014 1st round pick

To Detroit:
Alex edler
Alex friesen
Steven anthony

Anthony and friesen are just contract dumps. Anthony is a RFA at seasons end, friesen has another year after this. Canuck fans hoped friesen had Andrew shaw potential and back in the Ohl he looked to have it. However he hasn't done well since leaving the chl.

There's no nyquist/Tatar/jurco all of whom I know detroit fans are reluctant to give up on the main boards.

 

[Michael Brand Eggs]

That's definitely closer to what Wings fans would want. Personally, I don't think I do that just because I don't know what I've got in Sheahan yet. When your organization has few young centers, I think you've got to make sure you aren't giving up a potential difference maker. Especially when you aren't trading for a #1 and you aren't going for the cup this year.

I'm just not sold on the value of adding another offensive LD, either. Even if Edler played RD as a lefty, that would have more value. But a lefty LD offensive defenseman is like having two Kronwalls, and I'm not sure that's a match made in heaven for the Wings. Particularly as a long-term building block, because the Wings need an LD somewhere along the line to insulate Smith. Plus, having a top 4 consisting of Kronwall, Ericsson, Edler, and ____ (probably DeKeyser) means you probably end up throwing a lot of key defensive minutes to your third pairing, and I dunno if that's the best idea. That might mean you end up playing defense-only veterans on your bottom pairing, and the Wings really need to be playing kids there instead.

I think the reasonable setup for the Wings right now is:

Kronwall Ericsson
Defensive_LD DeKeyser OR DeKeyser Defensive_RD
Lashoff Smith

I think that would be a deceptively solid lineup. Lashoff and Smith have both taken the next step, and another defensive D creates a nice, balanced unit.

 

[EmptyNetAssassin]

It is a little more fair, but I would rather not give up Sproul and Sheahan. I don't think the DRW management will give up any of their top 10 prospects for a struggling 2-4 defenseman. Maybe more along Quincey + FRK+ B/C prospect + 1st.

 

[Canuck Luck]

That's definitely closer to what Wings fans would want. Personally, I don't think I do that just because I don't know what I've got in Sheahan yet. When your organization has few young centers, I think you've got to make sure you aren't giving up a potential difference maker. Especially when you aren't trading for a #1 and you aren't going for the cup.

I'm just not sold on the value of adding another offensive LD, though. Even if Edler played RD as a lefty, that would have more value.

Honestly I don't know anything about sheahan, but the scouting reports say he plays a 2 way power foward kind of game so I'm hoping he could be Kesler lite.

Has he been playing in the top 6 for the wings? Also is he good on the draw?

 

[Michael Brand Eggs]

Honestly I don't know anything about sheahan, but the scouting reports say he plays a 2 way power foward kind of game so I'm hoping he could be Kesler lite.

Has he been playing in the top 6 for the wings? Also is he good on the draw?

Sheahan has been weird. He was okay in college, okay in the AHL, and then he got a callup and magically turned into an NHLer. He's been skating really well, playing a good two-way game, and has brought a shocking level of offense with him. For a solid while there, his line was playing important minutes and looking brilliant doing it, and he was the catalyst. (It was a Jurco-Sheahan-Tatar line, btw. Total kid line, all of them rookies.)

So if anything, Wings fans are a little bit confused here. Is Sheahan going to go back to who he was 2 months ago, or has he taken the next step? Personally, I want to hang onto him until we have a better idea. The player we saw could easily project to a good second line center.

 

[Wolverine Wings]

I'd be willing to part with all of those players, but not for Edler. Left-handed PMD who is on the outs with his team partly because of his poor play are not needed in Detroit. Now, Holland was willing to give up a decent amount for Edler last year, but your GM is a dumbass and I think it is safe to say the ship has sailed. Edler is going to be moved for relatively cheap (like just a 1st and maybe a conditional pick) but his value is through the floor.

 

[Canuck Luck]

It is a little more fair, but I would rather not give up Sproul and Sheahan. I don't think the DRW management will give up any of their top 10 prospects for a struggling 2-4 defenseman. Maybe more along Quincey + FRK+ B/C prospect + 1st.

Edler can play the right side, but he is much more valuable on the left.

But your proposed deal, there's no way the Canucks would ever do that. We see edler as a 45-50 point #1-2 dman. Yea he's struggled this year but he's playing in a new system and has had to deal with an injury + a suspension this year. we all expect him to bounce back by next season

The only reason we want to trade him is because we have an abundance of d-men. Hamhuis and garrison would never waive their NTCs as they are BC boys. Garrison can play the right side, but the Canucks don't want lefties on the right side. Also Stanton has showed he is more than capable to anchor the 3rd pairing. He also doesn't have anywhere near the trade value edler does so there's no point of trading him.

Personally if we could trade any of hamhuis garrison and edler, edler would be the last one of the bunch I would look to trade. It's just the circumstances have him as the only option to be moved

 

[Wolverine Wings]

Edler can play the right side, but he is much more valuable on the left.

But your proposed deal, there's no way the Canucks would ever do that. We see edler as a 45-50 point #1-2 dman. Yea he's struggled this year but he's playing in a new system and has had to deal with an injury + a suspension this year.

The only reason we want to trade him is because we have an abundance of d-men. Hamhuis and garrison would never waive their NTCs as they are BC boys. Garrison can play the right side, but the Canucks don't want lefties on the right side. Also Stanton has showed he is more than capable to anchor the 3rd pairing. He also doesn't have anywhere near the trade value edler does so there's no point of trading him.

The other 29 teams know this and the Canucks are stuck in a buyers market with Edler; your team had a chance at a couple of good prospects/picks and that chance is gone. I'm sorry but Edler isn't going to bring very much back on his own, Canucks have to sweeten pot.

 

[crashman]

I think your proposal if pretty good, but I really don't think Samuelsson is movable. He's probably just accepted the fact that his NHL career is over and he's just waiting things out until he can go back to Sweden. He probably wouldn't waive his NTC no matter where he was traded to, he's obviously not interested in doing the Wings any favors.

But...if Zetterberg is done for the season, then I think a trade for Edler becomes a lot easier salary wise.

 

[Tatar Shots]

I would do it if we switched Sheahan for Pulkkinen.

 

[Canuck Luck]

The other 29 teams know this and the Canucks are stuck in a buyers market with Edler; your team had a chance at a couple of good prospects/picks and that chance is gone. I'm sorry but Edler isn't going to bring very much back on his own, Canucks have to sweeten pot.

I don't buy that argument. You say every team knows that but then there is only 1 edler. Teams are going to have to beat offers for him you don't think a couple teams would offer close to what the Canucks want just to make sure they get him over their competition? The Canucks also could just keep edler. We also don't have to move him, it would just help deal with life after the sedins. That is still a ways away though.

I also don't buy it because look at Chicago after their 1st cup win this decade. Everyone and their moms knew that they were ****ed cap wise and would have to gut their teams depth to get under the cap unless they traded one of their elite players. Yet they managed to get close to if not fair value for all their players except Brian Campbell. Only reason they had to give Campbell away for nothing is because of his contract. Edler on the other hand has a good contract. 5M for a #2 is a great deal.

 

[Vladdy84]

Not trading Sheahan.

 

[probertrules24]

I don't buy that argument. You say every team knows that but then there is only 1 edler. Teams are going to have to beat offers for him you don't think a couple teams would offer close to what the Canucks want just to make sure they get him over their competition? The Canucks also could just keep edler. We also don't have to move him, it would just help deal with life after the sedins. That is still a ways away though.

I also don't buy it because look at Chicago after their 1st cup win this decade. Everyone and their moms knew that they were ****ed cap wise and would have to gut their teams depth to get under the cap unless they traded one of their elite players. Yet they managed to get close to if not fair value for all their players except Brian Campbell. Only reason they had to give Campbell away for nothing is because of his contract. Edler on the other hand has a good contract. 5M for a #2 is a great deal.

With Edlers NTC you are also not dealing with 29 teams because he has the choice where he'll be going.

 

[Canuck Luck]

With Edlers NTC you are also not dealing with 29 teams because he has the choice where he'll be going.

True but no one besides edler and the Canucks know which teams he will waive for. So that doesn't stop the Canucks from using offers from the teams he won't waive for to their advantage and unless a gm is confident edler won't waive for the competition or have reached their max bid, they will go higher

 

[JmanWingsFan]

Absolutely not. Terrible deal.

 

[Winger98]

Most reports had Holland less than thrilled about sending three pieces for Edler, let alone four, and I doubt that's changed. With Z possibly on ltir for at least another stretch of the season, we won't need to throw in a cap dump like Samuelsson and we definitely don't want/need salary dumps coming back. The deal's really:

Sproul, Sheahan, 1st for Edler

I can see Sproul moved in such a deal, but I think Backman would be the more likely guy for Detroit to move. I don't think the 1st is available until we know where it's at. Edler's not worth that package if that pick is in the top 10.

I'd look at moving Pulkkinen, Backman, 2nd for Edler, if it's not good enough, so be it. I'm fine rolling the dice with an upgrade in free agency or just going with a kid or two next year.

 

[JohanFranzenstein]

Is it weird that I'm very iffy on moving Pulu?