Post-Game Talk: Poop

  • Xenforo Cloud will be upgrading us to version 2.3.5 on March 3rd at 12 AM GMT. This version has increased stability and fixes several bugs. We expect downtime for the duration of the update. The admin team will continue to work on existing issues, templates and upgrade all necessary available addons to minimize impact of this new version. Click Here for Updates
Status
Not open for further replies.
They started mostly punting on the regular season before they won the Cup. That's how they won the Cup.

The NHL regular season is a glorified preseason.
Did they though? Colorado was about as dominant as you get last season in the regular season

Tampa has won or has been on pace to win 50+ games for the past 5 seasons. Won 62 games before being embarrassed by Panarin and Torts.

I don't value Regular Season Wins more than Playoffs Wins... but you have to at least show you're competent. We have sucked 5v5 for what feels like an eternity. There is no benefit of the doubt here.

We sucked tremendously 5v5 in the playoffs. All the teams you listed did not. That's the glaring difference.
 
Completely agree. I'm actually relatively encouraged by the start. I think they are ahead of where they were a year ago.

I think the ridiculous run Igor and the PP went on last year, as well as how loaded they were able to make the team at the TDL due to one-time cap space have really clouded expectations.
Totally. The over reactions here are a bit much. Toronto and Colorado were a tire fires to start the season last year and ended up with something like 115 points. Tampa is currently in 7th place. It's good they get hit with a little adversity to start the season.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bhamill
Totally. The over reactions here are a bit much. Toronto and Colorado were a tire fires to start the season last year and ended up with something like 115 points. Tampa is currently in 7th place. It's good they get hit with a little adversity to start the season.
People keep naming these other teams that have zero issues producing 5v5,. We are not comparable imo

The issue isn't so much as the result but how we actually play/execute. I really do not see the style we play being effect. I HOPE I AM WRONG. I do not want to be right in this case. I just dont see it though. It's an outdated take on hockey. It may win some game in the regular season.. Maybe some individual effots can secure a playoff round or two... but until they show to me they can consistently produce 5v5, ESPECIALLY in the Playoffs... I just have a really hard time buying it.

I think we have the roster to win cups and find long term success. I do not believe in our system/coaching. Once again, I hope Turk proves me wrong.

p.s. - making the playoffs and winning a series isn't proving me wrong. I'm talking about winning the whole thing.
 
People keep naming these other teams that have zero issues producing 5v5,. We are not comparable imo

The issue isn't so much as the result but how we actually play/execute. I really do not see the style we play being effect. I HOPE I AM WRONG. I do not want to be right in this case. I just dont see it though. It's an outdated take on hockey. It may win some game in the regular season.. Maybe some individual effots can secure a playoff round or two... but until they show to me they can consistently produce 5v5, ESPECIALLY in the Playoffs... I just have a really hard time buying it.

I think we have the roster to win cups and find long term success. I do not believe in our system/coaching. Once again, I hope Turk proves me wrong.

p.s. - making the playoffs and winning a series isn't proving me wrong. I'm talking about winning the whole thing.
Do you think that while these teams were "tire fires" they may NOT have been producing at 5v5? I'm gonna go out on a ledge and say they weren't. This team has improved their 5v5 play and their shot volume. They just have nothing to show for it... yet.
 
People keep naming these other teams that have zero issues producing 5v5,. We are not comparable imo

The issue isn't so much as the result but how we actually play/execute. I really do not see the style we play being effect. I HOPE I AM WRONG. I do not want to be right in this case. I just dont see it though. It's an outdated take on hockey. It may win some game in the regular season.. Maybe some individual effots can secure a playoff round or two... but until they show to me they can consistently produce 5v5, ESPECIALLY in the Playoffs... I just have a really hard time buying it.

I think we have the roster to win cups and find long term success. I do not believe in our system/coaching. Once again, I hope Turk proves me wrong.

p.s. - making the playoffs and winning a series isn't proving me wrong. I'm talking about winning the whole thing.
I don't think they've been bad 5x5, it's been their special teams that's let them down these past few games. They had 85 shots on goal the last two games and one of the beat writers posted they outchanced Isles 2-1 in high danger chances last night. They will turn this around.
 
Do you think that while these teams were "tire fires" they may NOT have been producing at 5v5? I'm gonna go out on a ledge and say they weren't. This team has improved their 5v5 play and their shot volume. They just have nothing to show for it... yet.
Those other teams have proven it though. They have been at the top for seasons. There's a difference.
 
Every single thing you saw last season was because of Igor. Gallant did absolutely nothing. He has no system. He has no strategy. He calls for zero accountability. Where are the major steps for Laf and Kakko? Who are we giving him credit for, Zib Panarin Fox and Kreider then? They were already those players.

This team has lost 4 in a row badly. Not sure they are being talked about as a cup contender at all right now. And there definitely isn't any of this "belief" in themselves that you're talking about right now either.
Some players flourish with a coach who takes a step back and lets them be professionals. You seem to equate great coaching with a guy who installs the best "system." That's a totally out of touch take on what makes coaches successful. Equally or more important than a coach who has the best system is a coach that knows when to insert himself into a situation and when to take a step back and allow the situation to fix itself. If you don't see Gallant as a guy who stands up for his players( what you deem as 0 accountability,) allows them to play the way they play best( what you deem as 0 system) and is patient with his lines( what you deem is 0 strategy) as all contributing positively to the Rangers organization than sadly I don't think you can understand how Gallant is almost universally names as one of the top 5 coaches in the league right now.

Whether the Rangers contend for the cup this year remains to be scene- but the fact that we are even in the conversation at the start of the year is noteworthy and should not just be taken for granted.
 
I don't think they've been bad 5x5, it's been their special teams that's let them down these past few games. They had 85 shots on goal the last two games and one of the beat writers posted they outchanced Isles 2-1 in high danger chances last night. They will turn this around.
They have definitely been better 5v5, compared to last season. It's not even close.

I just see the same issues year after year. I still see major flaws in our approach and consistency.. Does it work against the better teams? Can we win 16 games in the postseason? That's where my doubt lies.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mas0764
Those other teams have proven it though. They have been at the top for seasons. There's a difference.
Using them as an example is only showing the possibilities, just showing the position we are in isn't a death sentence and doesn't mean they can't have a great season, it's not guaranteeing the same results. At least not on my end.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pawnee Rangers
They have definitely been better 5v5, compared to last season. It's not even close.

I just see the same issues year after year. I still see major flaws in our approach and consistency.. Does it work against the better teams? Can we win 16 games in the postseason? That's where my doubt lies.
There's only one team that does every season and the rest are failures. But the Rangers came pretty close last year. I'm just not going to get worked up 8 games into the season. They have had spurts where they've looked like world beaters and spurts where they've looked horrendous. Like you said in a previous post, they have the roster to do some damage, just need to give it some time. I will say this though if they put up 45 shots on Georgiev every game in a seven game series, they win 6 of them.
 
Some players flourish with a coach who takes a step back and lets them be professionals. You seem to equate great coaching with a guy who installs the best "system." That's a totally out of touch take on what makes coaches successful. Equally or more important than a coach who has the best system is a coach that knows when to insert himself into a situation and when to take a step back and allow the situation to fix itself. If you don't see Gallant as a guy who stands up for his players( what you deem as 0 accountability,) allows them to play the way they play best( what you deem as 0 system) and is patient with his lines( what you deem is 0 strategy) as all contributing positively to the Rangers organization than sadly I don't think you can understand how Gallant is almost universally names as one of the top 5 coaches in the league right now.

Whether the Rangers contend for the cup this year remains to be scene- but the fact that we are even in the conversation at the start of the year is noteworthy and should not just be taken for granted.
Gallant has never been with a team longer than 2 and a half seasons. Throughout his entire coaching career. That's not an accident. It's not a accident that he was left on the side of the road either. He is quite far from being a top 5 coach in the league, specifically because of his limitations - inability to adjust, complete lack of any strategy, zero accountability for his players, horrible deployment of personnel - the list goes on. Everything you saw last season, every ounce of any success, was because of Igor having a historic season. That's it, that's literally the only reason they got to where they did. Had nothing to do with Gallant whatsoever.

Rangers look like a tire fire right now - not sure that anything he is doing is "contributing positively"
 
  • Like
Reactions: Vaheh
They have definitely been better 5v5, compared to last season. It's not even close.

I just see the same issues year after year. I still see major flaws in our approach and consistency.. Does it work against the better teams? Can we win 16 games in the postseason? That's where my doubt lies.
Approach and consistency is where you need a coach who knows what they are doing, and unfortunately we don't have that.
 
I get your sentiment but, Kappo dangled through the Isles defense once last game and almost scored on what would have been a highlight real goal.

Been a while since I wanted someone to absolutely bury a puck so bad as much as I wanted him to score there. Just keep doing it kid they're going to start going in.
 
Want to see a tire fire, watch some Ducks games. Rangers are playing well, they just are in a rut with bad puck luck, and not executing at 100%.
I couldn't care less about the Ducks, I care about the Rangers. The Ducks being bad doesn't make the Rangers being bad OK somehow.
 
I couldn't care less about the Ducks, I care about the Rangers. The Ducks being bad doesn't make the Rangers being bad OK somehow.

My point is, the Rangers are not a tire fire or playing bad. Things are just not going right for them. It's a big difference.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RagFinMet
My point is, the Rangers are not a tire fire or playing bad. Things are just not going right for them. It's a big difference.
They've lost 4 in a row and have not looked like they deserved to win any of them, with a -9 goal differential, a useless powerplay and 0 points out of our two top picks. If that's not a tire fire to you then you have lower standards than I do. Things aren't going right for them because they are playing like dogshit.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mas0764
Just one example of how this -- the shift in balance -- manifests itself. Before we have definitely played 'back-up goalie hockey' for odd games. Like the back-up goalie comes in, and the team significantly change the approach a bit to just see things through. Right? If we look at our top 9 and top 6 Ds, which players can we expect to look at the starting line-up and see that Halak is starting -- and perhaps even unconsciously turn that fact into a little safer performance on the ice? Will Ziba do it? Will Laf or Kakko? Will Panarin? Will KAM? Will Fox? Will Chytil? Like a Darren Hunt could hit the ice and play 40 seconds and be happy if he gets a pat on the back for just seeing that shift through, for keeping it simple. When a Laf or Kakko hit the ice, they will be happy if they created offense. They will not be proud of a shift just because it was uneventful. Its probably the opposite.

With our current build, we need more players to realize that as a team that will play 82 games during a regular NHL season, you need to be satisfied with shifts being uneventful at times too. You must also win games where you hit the ice and is an boring/annoying opponent until the other team shoots itself in the foot.
Really well said in both your posts, and you've articulated much of what I've been thinking watching the team so far this year.

Id add that, relating to a point you and I have both made (re: Kakko and Lafreniere), when these kids haven't touched the puck more than 60 mins across three years, it's not realistic to expect them to know exactly what to do with it when that opportunity arises more often. It's very rare in this league to have young players who you're trying to get to do more and less at the same time. Most players get the reigns, like they play "too high risk" and need to refine their play, be more consistently less then their absolute capabilities. With these two, and Chytil as well, you've got dueling and simultaneous development curves: how to manage a game, a shift, ie. contribute to winning consistently, as well as how to experiment, to discover and break through their ceilings as offensive players.

Some of this adjustment goes for the team at large as you alluded to... If Kakko and Lafreniere are now top 6 wingers, then our other top six players need to make adjustments of their own to both maximize and stabalize the teams performance. How long did it take Panarin and strome to realize they weren't playing with Jesper fast anymore? (Did they ever?)

It does seem to be something that is just going to take time. Unfortunately for the rangers, neither the power play nor their goaltending (both of which they relied on to buoy them last year) have allowed them to bank points while they work out the kinks, so the patience is harder to establish and the placement in the standings becomes more urgent than we might've expected.
 
They've lost 4 in a row and have not looked like they deserved to win any of them, with a -9 goal differential, a useless powerplay and 0 points out of our two top picks. If that's not a tire fire to you then you have lower standards than I do. Things aren't going right for them because they are playing like dogshit.
the board was a better place when you f***ed off to wherever you did back in April. for the greater good you should go back, I think
 
They've lost 4 in a row and have not looked like they deserved to win any of them, with a -9 goal differential, a useless powerplay and 0 points out of our two top picks. If that's not a tire fire to you then you have lower standards than I do. Things aren't going right for them because they are playing like dogshit.
Actually in the four game losing streak theyve managed to still pick up two points, and yes they easily played well enough to win the last two games.
 
They have definitely been better 5v5, compared to last season. It's not even close.

I just see the same issues year after year. I still see major flaws in our approach and consistency.. Does it work against the better teams? Can we win 16 games in the postseason? That's where my doubt lies.
Yeah, the 5v5 argument is a bit too general for my liking.

The issues they're having are more specific and I think, go something like this:

On Offense:
We are generating more shots, but we are not crashing the net. Hunting rebounds, getting dirty, goal mouth goals. Several examples last night of us having possession in the offensive zone and the players without the puck were trying to get open for an east west pass downlow as opposed to positioning themselves for a screen/tip/rebound. We need some second chance goals. We need to get inside the blue paint. Our D and our Fs are not in sync about how to generate 5v5 offense. Shots from teh point with no one in front is a goalie's dream. Too many of our shots are that variety. And I don't really see Foxy or any other D taking those slightly slower shots from the point that are meant for deflections. And far too often the blasts from the point are happening with little to no screens. Pucks are going wide, hitting goalies in the chest and when they do hit the pads, those rebounds without any traffic are being kicked to the corners. The only line that attacked the center of the ice at 5v5 consistently was the Kid Line. And honestly, I thought the 3rd line with Vesey, Goody and Blais was doing an okay job at generating given their general lack of skill.

NZ play
Our counterattack is non-existent. We are ceding too much space in the neutral zone. And thus all of our 5v5 attack starts from behind our own net. We have the skill to be a counterattacking team. And I am starting to wonder if a different 5v5 system ought to be tried where we clog up the neutral zone and counter. Our forwards have not done a great job at creating scoring chances off the cycle. Almost all of our best chances are off the rush. If that's the case, then we need to be a counterattacking team. We could use the extra space counterattacking provides. Right now, our "half-court offense" often creates possession, but generates few high danger chances and NO second chances.

Gosh, could you imagine, being a trap team with Shesty in net? Counter attacking with our offense? Tiring out other teams who can't get through the NZ against us? I don't care if it's boring. Especially since we have such elite players, we could dominate most teams with a counterattack approach.

Turnovers
Because we are letting teams enter our zone pretty easily, we are forced to go 200 to get scoring chances. And we are often playing too loose or too soft. And we have been making lots of mistakes with our puck management. Either turning pucks over at the blue lines or making soft plays to get pucks out. This is what keeps eating us alive. It's not that the other team scores all the time on these mistakes, but it leads to really good chances, long shifts where our D are stuck in their own zone defending, especially later in games. Happened too much against the isles.

Boardwork
The top line isn't working at all 5v5. got trapped in our own zone too much the last two games. And the few chances we are getting at 5v5 with that line are off the rush. the 2nd line was generating far more at 5v5 but again, everything to the outside. The third line with Vesey, Goody and Blais were at times the only line being successful at the style of play we're attempting at even strength. Either we need to switch the lines up, or we need to tweak our approach to how we generate offense at even strength. Our style in the offensive zone is far too east west mixed with lets take more shots and it's making life too easy for opposing goalies who rarely have their eyes taken away and almost never have to deal with a rebound. Our only goals in the past 2 games were from east west plays off of rushes. Just not good enough. And yesterday, our best chances were individual rushes. That speaks to a system that's either not in place or the players are not on the same page.
 
Actually in the four game losing streak theyve managed to still pick up two points, and yes they easily played well enough to win the last two games.
Semantics - they've lost 4 games in a row.

I was there last night, they did not deserve to win that game at all.

the board was a better place when you f***ed off to wherever you did back in April. for the greater good you should go back, I think
Nah. Hit the ignore if you want, you know where it is.
 
Semantics - they've lost 4 games in a row.

I was there last night, they did not deserve to win that game at all.
Semantics? That makes no sense. It changes nothing I said.
Having gone to hundreds of games, I'm fairly confident that I can judge how well they play just as competently on TV as in person. They outplayed the Isles. It's subjective, you can disagree, but your OPINION is not some gold standard. hahaha.
 
I see the potential for it with Kakko. The great rush where he almost scored was one, as well as the Datsyukian goal he scored earlier in the season where he basically just ragged the puck for 15 seconds circling the entire O zone and then scoring, and no one could take it away from him. I don't think he has the offensive or playmaking instincts to set the league on fire, but there's a very real possibility we get a Jakub Voracek like player when all is said and done. I'd like to see more scoring than that, but that's what I see when I look at him and project his growth out a few seasons.

For Lafreniere, IMO he projects best as a shooter and needs someone to get him the puck. I'm really not impressed with his playmaking abilities - outside of the occasional brilliant pass - I don't think he can do it consistently and he's not strong enough on the puck. But as a shooter, he still seems to have no idea how to get open at or between the circles and is too slow to shoot off the pass. I also want to see his shot get harder and more accurate. All of this is coachable/trainable, but he's got to work harder at these specific areas. I'd also like to see him up his compete to where it was in the playoffs and get stronger. If he can do that, he might become a 40 goal guy someday. But if he continues to coast and play undersized, he's never going to be a difference maker. IMO he'll benefit from playing with a tank who can get him the puck...that's one of the reasons I think he had good chemistry with Chytil and Kakko - both of them are strong on the puck so he doesn't have to be.

Great post, I also still think the kid line does well together because they don't have those vets on the line to defer to. Kakko seems to handle it better in the top 6 but I find Laf is still going along for the ride when he's with our core vets in the top six. IMO

I do notice that Laf has no qualms about throwing his body around and hope he continues to do that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bhamill
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad