Please Grade Dubas on today's Free Agent Pickups.

[Bomber0104]

But they've spent spread it out on the top two centres, two top 6 wing positions, and 3 defense positions?

50% of the cap is being spent on 4 forwards (2 centres/2 wingers).

There isn't another team in the cap era that has attempted something like this.

And it's going great, isn't it?

 

[notbias]

50% of the cap is being spent on 4 forwards (2 centres/2 wingers).

There isn't another team in the cap era that has attempted something like this.

And it's going great, isn't it?

The cup-winning Pittsburgh team was at 44%, I think that is the closest I found, the cap allocation for the Leafs isn't as insane as some think. The difference in those forwards is just under 5 million.

Crosby 17.3%
Malkin 15.34%
Staal 7.05%
Kunitz 7.41%

Matthews 14.64%
Marner 13.38%
Tavares 13.84%
Nylander 8.76%

Looking at it like this, everyone slots in where they should...

Crosby > Malkin > Matthews > Tavares > Marner > Nylander > Kunitz > Staal

The difference is that Pittsburgh benefitted from the cap increasing whereas the Leafs haven't really, I am sure we'd be closer to 44% like the Pens if Covid didn't happen.

 

[Bomber0104]

The cup-winning Pittsburgh team was at 44%, I think that is the closest I found, the cap allocation for the Leafs isn't as insane as some think. The difference in those forwards is just under 5 million.

Crosby 17.3%
Malkin 15.34%
Staal 7.05%
Kunitz 7.41%

Matthews 14.64%
Marner 13.38%
Tavares 13.84%
Nylander 8.76%

Looking at it like this, everyone slots in where they should...

Crosby > Malkin > Matthews > Tavares > Marner > Nylander > Kunitz > Staal

The difference is that Pittsburgh benefitted from the cap increasing whereas the Leafs haven't really, I am sure we'd be closer to 44% like the Pens if Covid didn't happen.

So like I said before, it's never been done before.

And prime Crosby and Malkin are on another level than Matthews and Taveres.

May as well throw one or two more " >'s " in there.

But yeah, thanks for further highlighting what an absolute mess Dubas has made with this cap structure..

 

[notbias]

So like I said before, it's never been done before.

And prime Crosby and Malkin are on another level than Matthews and Taveres.

May as well throw one or two more " >'s " in there.

But yeah, thanks for further highlighting what an absolute mess Dubas has made with this cap structure..

I like the construction of the team, we have no bad contracts, the D is the best it's been in a decade+, we have high-end talent, solid goaltending, and improved our depth.

Prime Crosby/Malkin are not multiple levels above Matthews, a 60+ goal pace since the coaching change is insane.

 

[Racer88]

Marners name shouldn’t even be mentioned in the same list as Crosby, 1 has an unbelievable work ethic and 1 does not

 

[notbias]

Marners name shouldn’t even be mentioned in the same list as Crosby, 1 has an unbelievable work ethic and 1 does not

Fan fiction. You have no knowledge of the training schedule of Marner

 

[Racer88]

I like the construction of the team, we have no bad contracts, the D is the best it's been in a decade+, we have high-end talent, solid goaltending, and improved our depth.

Prime Crosby/Malkin are not multiple levels above Matthews, a 60+ goal pace since the coaching change is insane.

I don’t ever remember Matthews scoring 60 goals.
As far as a 60 goal pace it’s just a speculative thing that someone might score that many. It’s like “expected goals” I prefer to live in the world of what they actually scored

 

[Bomber0104]

I like the construction of the team, we have no bad contracts, the D is the best it's been in a decade+, we have high-end talent, solid goaltending, and improved our depth.

Prime Crosby/Malkin are not multiple levels above Matthews, a 60+ goal pace since the coaching change is insane.

Yeah and they lose in the opening round every single time in increasingly embarrassing fashion since Dubas has been in charge.

 

[notbias]

I don’t ever remember Matthews scoring 60 goals.
As far as a 60 goal pace it’s just a speculative thing that someone might score that many. It’s like “expected goals” I prefer to live in the world of what they actually scored

They haven't played a full season since Keefe took over, what do you want them to do?

He has 74 goals in 99 games since the coaching change, that is insane.

 

[Racer88]

Fan fiction. You have no knowledge of the training schedule of Marner

Really…….all you have to do is watch the way Crosby played during his career and what a physical specimen he is and Marner looks like a little kid

 

[Havoc]

50% of the cap is being spent on 4 forwards (2 centres/2 wingers).

There isn't another team in the cap era that has attempted something like this.

And it's going great, isn't it?

If we're talking Stanley Cups since cap era, 10 of the last 16 wins is spread across 4 teams.

Maybe you shouldn't be too occupied with what other teams are doing because odds are very high they're not going to win the cup either.

Leafs still have a team capable of winning it all next season if their core guys can elevate their game in the playoffs. Something as simple as 1 extra point from Matthews or Marner could have won the series in 5 games. Seeing as they only just started to grow beards fluently, it's not farfetched to still be optimistic unless you're suggesting hockey players peak at 23-24. Or does this not apply to hockey players, only Leafs players signed by Dubas peak right?

Also, we finally have some guys hitting their prime that can outplay their cap hit, similar to past cup teams that got lucky in this regard as well. This applies to Nylander as well. He'll be turning 26 in the playoffs next season. Candidate for lighting it up.

Not saying they don't deserve some hate right now, but it's also not a crime to be optimistic.

1.) Have the pieces

2.) Hope they show up when it matters

Majority of teams are stuck on step 1. Leafs aren't.

 

[notbias]

Yeah and they lose in the opening round every single time in increasingly embarrassing fashion since Dubas has been in charge.

If they won the cup do you like the structure of the team? I never understand this line of thinking, hockey is the "luckiest" sport out of all the major sports, the GMs job is to construct the best team possible and hope everything goes right. The GM has constructed great teams, things have not gone right. People praise Sakic, and they should because he has done a good job constructing that team, but they haven't gotten out of the second round.

 

[Racer88]

They haven't played a full season since Keefe took over, what do you want them to do?

He has 74 goals in 99 games since the coaching change, that is insane.

I have seen all I need to of Keefe in the 2 playoff rounds. He was Badly out coached especially this year

 

[notbias]

I have seen all I need to of Keefe in the 2 playoff rounds. He was Bradley out coached especially this year

You state a lot of opinions as fact. I thought he outcoached the other team both years, his team dominated play for the majority of both series, finishing has been the biggest issue, not lack of chances.

It amazes me how many people think our team is lazy, and our coach sucks. Imagine if our players tried and we had a different coach? We'd win the next 5 cups easily.

 

[Racer88]

You state a lot of opinions as fact. I thought he outcoached the other team both years, his team dominated play for the majority of both series, finishing has been the biggest issue, not lack of chances.

It amazes me how many people think our team is lazy, and our coach sucks. Imagine if our players tried and we had a different coach? We'd win the next 5 cups easily.

I’m not stating it as fact. I am stating it as my opinion same as you think Keefe has done a good job……..yet we keep choking

 

[kb]

.927 save % over his last 2 post seasons against tougher opponents is collapsing eh? Take that version of Fred over Campbell any day.

Being the second and third best goalie statistically in each series he played in the playoffs is good? A;l while facing the easier shots?

That's a very big nope.

 

[Havoc]

Being the second and third best goalie statistically in each series he played in the playoffs is good? A;l while facing the easier shots?

That's a very big nope.

Seems ridiculous to say Dubas made a mistake sticking with Fred while at the same time saying Dubas is smart for moving forward with a goalie whose mediocre play in the final 3 games played a role in our collapse. A collapse to the most inferior team we've faced in the last 5 years.

I don't think majority would choose 20/21 Campbell over 18/19 or 19/20 Fred if the opponent was the Bruins or any team worth being scared of, so you can see the contradiction in what I was replying to.

 

[Havoc]

The cup-winning Pittsburgh team was at 44%, I think that is the closest I found, the cap allocation for the Leafs isn't as insane as some think. The difference in those forwards is just under 5 million.

Crosby 17.3%
Malkin 15.34%
Staal 7.05%
Kunitz 7.41%

Matthews 14.64%
Marner 13.38%
Tavares 13.84%
Nylander 8.76%

Looking at it like this, everyone slots in where they should...

Crosby > Malkin > Matthews > Tavares > Marner > Nylander > Kunitz > Staal

The difference is that Pittsburgh benefitted from the cap increasing whereas the Leafs haven't really, I am sure we'd be closer to 44% like the Pens if Covid didn't happen.

Leafs are literally built like the past cup winners but the hate is too strong right now for people to see it.

3-4 guys putting the team on their back, then you have 1-3 side kicks who step up, and the 1-dman putting up points to help (Letang, Carlson). Everyone else is pretty much interchangeable with other depth players on other teams.

Kessel/Malkin/Crosby + Bonino, Letang.

Bonino does a disappearing act the next season but it doesn't matter because 925K cap hit Guentzel puts up 21 points in 25 games.

Caps were carried by a group of 4 + Carlson with Wilson stepping up as the breakout side kick.

These are actual teams that won the cup.

If Matthews, Marner , JT, Nylander all put up 20+ points, we get some sidekick help from one of Kerfoot/Ritchie/Bunting etc and Rielly puts up points.....we're literally the exact same as past cup winners.

It boggles my mind how nobody sees it and wastes their day arguing over cap space and the hottest depth player to use it on.

It's just the goalies that make me worry but on the bright side Holtby played like crap in 17/18 then showed up for the playoffs so hopefully one of Mrazek or Campbell can figure it out by April.

 

[Bomber0104]

If they won the cup do you like the structure of the team? I never understand this line of thinking, hockey is the "luckiest" sport out of all the major sports, the GMs job is to construct the best team possible and hope everything goes right. The GM has constructed great teams, things have not gone right. People praise Sakic, and they should because he has done a good job constructing that team, but they haven't gotten out of the second round.

If the Leafs are considered "great" in your eyes, what would you consider a team that regularly advances past the first round to be? Greater?

How about a team that regularly reaches the Conference Finals? Even greater?

How about winning Cups in back-to-back years? Greatest?!

There must be levels to what great is because the Leafs haven't done accomplished a damn thing and here you are calling them great!

 

[Bomber0104]

Leafs are literally built like the past cup winners but the hate is too strong right now for people to see it.

3-4 guys putting the team on their back, then you have 1-3 side kicks who step up, and the 1-dman putting up points to help (Letang, Carlson). Everyone else is pretty much interchangeable with other depth players on other teams.

Kessel/Malkin/Crosby + Bonino, Letang.

Bonino does a disappearing act the next season but it doesn't matter because 925K cap hit Guentzel puts up 21 points in 25 games.

Caps were carried by a group of 4 + Carlson with Wilson stepping up as the breakout side kick.

These are actual teams that won the cup.

If Matthews, Marner , JT, Nylander all put up 20+ points, we get some sidekick help from one of Kerfoot/Ritchie/Bunting etc and Rielly puts up points.....we're literally the exact same as past cup winners.

It boggles my mind how nobody sees it and wastes their day arguing over cap space and the hottest depth player to use it on.

It's just the goalies that make me worry but on the bright side Holtby played like crap in 17/18 then showed up for the playoffs so hopefully one of Mrazek or Campbell can figure it out by April.

Nah he did the math, and it checks out with what I already stated before.

No one has ever won a Cup with 4 forwards occupying half the salary cap.

Facts are facts, as they say.

Dubas has taken the Leafs into the wild, and they've lost in the first available chance in the playoffs/play-in each year since.

 

[Havoc]

Nah he did the math, and it checks out with what I already stated before.

No one has ever won a Cup with 4 forwards occupying half the salary cap.

Facts are facts, as they say.

Dubas has taken the Leafs into the wild, and they've lost in the first available chance in the playoffs/play-in each year since.

This does nothing to refute what I said. I can go and find an infinite amount of %'s nobody has ever won a cup at. Nobody has won at 43.32322323% is just as useful as what you're saying. Your fact is meaningless to actual insight and the team dynamics with respects to past cup winners.

 

[Bomber0104]

This does nothing to refute what I said. I can go and find an infinite amount of %'s nobody has ever won a cup at. Nobody has won at 43.32322323% is just as useful as what you're saying. Your fact is meaningless to actual insight and the team dynamics with respects to past cup winners.

Actually it should tell you a lot.

There's a reason zero Cups in the salary cap era have been won with half the salary cap being occupied by four forwards.

It's because it's stupid to do and starves your other positions of the requisite talent/cap-space that it requires to ice a balanced, winning team.

You think it's a dumb coincidence that the first ever team to try this has lost in the first round every single year?

 

[Havoc]

Actually it should tell you a lot.

There's a reason zero Cups in the salary cap era have been won with half the salary cap being occupied by four forwards.

It's because it's stupid to do and starves your other positions of the requisite talent/cap-space that it requires to ice a balanced, winning team.

You think it's a dumb coincidence that the first ever team to try this has lost in the first round every single year?

You're not even willing to discuss anything I said and holding onto your 50% stat.

I laid out the comparisons which are all facts. It's clear you simply don't think our big 4 can step up the same way the Caps big 4 did, for example. I respect that.

In contrast I am sure others can see the damage Leafs can do if the big 4 all fire at once....since literally every past cup winner in the Matthews era has won this way and 3 of our big 4 are still young, where 1 is finally hitting his prime and the other 2 are still one year away from prime years.

 

[Bomber0104]

You're not even willing to discuss anything I said and holding onto your 50% stat.

I laid out the comparisons which are all facts. It's clear you simply don't think our big 4 can step up the same way the Caps big 4 did, for example. I respect that.

In contrast I am sure others can see the damage Leafs can do if the big 4 all fire at once....since literally every past cup winner in the Matthews era has won this way and 3 of our big 4 are still young, where 1 is finally hitting his prime and the other 2 are still one year away from prime years.

You're welcome to that opinion. I'm welcome to mine.

I feel mine is based in fact and logic, less in faith and hope.

And no my argument isn't all about the 50% capspace argument.

That's only 50% of it.

The other 50% of it is the fact they've had exactly zero success under that fomula.

 

[Havoc]

You're welcome to that opinion.

I'm welcome to mine.

I feel mine is based in fact and logic, less in faith and hope.

Yet you provide no facts and logic to refute my comparisons in the original post. Seems what you're doing is trying to take me farther and farther away from my original post so you don't have to counter anything in it.

We're done here.