Value of: PLD's trade value this summer with 1 RFA year left?

[Hunter368]

I was pondering this... Wouldn't it be a shock if both Dubois and Scheifele are traded this summer?

Dubois to the Habs for:
* Panthers 1st (10-20 range... likely 10-16 range IMO)
* Kidney
* Harris
* Dvorak (just a body in place for rebuild years... supports the tank)

Scheifele to the Avs (50% retention):
* Avs 2024 1st (No Protection)
* Newhook
* Other adds TBD

Sakic buys time by getting Scheifele now at 50% which fits his cap and then signs him for the following season when the cap is closer to $90M.

Jets get Toews to come home to play with Connor.

Jets get two 1st rounders, Newhook, Harris, Kidney, and possibly one more piece from the Avs. Would be a good start to an accelerated rebuild and your pick for 2024 should be good.

I wouldn't hate trading both, if PLD wanted to be traded then IMO the logical thing (or at least a good option) is to embrace a rebuild/restructure when the Jets are close to one anyways. Me, I have zero interest in Toews, like zero unless we were paid to take him and he just added to our tank. But personally I don't buy into where a guy was born, what language he speaks or anything else.......all i care about is how he plays on the ice and does he represent the organization well off the ice. Not taking anything away from Toews or what he's done in the past, but he's old as dirt and no where the player he used to be, heck I even question his desire to play anymore.

After this year is over:

Mark has one year
PLD potentially traded
Wheeler one year (yes insiders have said there was some good interest in him this past summer, especially if the Jets would retain which they didn't, but thats totally different when he has only one year left)
Dillon one year
DeMelo one year
Nate S two years
Pionk two years
Helle one year

Jets have the potential to go full scorched earth rebuild if they want to, heck I was annoyed they didn't do it back in 2011, I knew they weren't good enough back then to be serious contender and they weren't but I understand rebuilding right after you buy a team is a bad PR move to most fans. They also signed Rick B for two years, this year and next, he also said he had no interest coming back to coaching a rebuilding team........a lot of timelines are matching up in my tinfoil covered head that are saying the Jets are going rebuild or at least a significant restructuring in less then two years. This summer or next years TDL are going to be very interesting to watch to see what they do. Personally I would sooner the Jets go full rebuild and embrace it this summer or next year TDL.

 

[LVCarson]

I'm a firm believer that you need to be good in all 3 areas. Offense, Defense, and Goaltending. A strong Defense with good goaltending takes pressure off the offense. A bad goal at the wrong time usually kills momentum. Not many comprehend that well.



Perreault is a bad example to compare to Dubois.

* With Dubois and Montreal, it's mutual interest at the right time where it lines up well.

* With Perreault and Montreal, was Montreal ever that interested in him as a middle 6F type in his prime? Sure but he never was as good as Dubois so I don't get the comparison. The only comparison is they are both from Quebec. That's it.

Was Perreault ever a 2C? Comparing Perrault to Dubois on home town guys is like comparing Clarkson to Tavares

No it’s not. Perrault grew up a Habs fan and every time he played back in Montreal he was excited to go home cause “as a kid growing up” he wanted to play for his hometown team. He was smart enough not to get on that sinking ship until his career was done. Ditto Dubois. He is not joining a team that finished last hoping they will magically get 2 NHL goalies, 6 NHL dmen, and a pile of forwards, hoping they will somehow be a contender in the next 8 years. Not happening.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I would agree with this, albeit I would add you also need good coaching to be a serious threat.

A good coach who has the right approach/system for the players he has is important. 100% agree there.

 

[LVCarson]

You asked a question and I answered it. I don't expect you to agree but I'm also not surprised you took it to this level. Classic.

Learn to respect a difference of opinion better.



The interview that was on TV? Are we talking about two different interviews?

If you keep up with this type of controversial narrative or approach, I'm putting you on ignore mode. Are you new to HF boards? Appears so. I'll let you decide your next steps. Debate in good faith or continue on with the two types of post above. Your choice

Can’t take the hrleat get out of thee

You asked a question and I answered it. I don't expect you to agree but I'm also not surprised you took it to this level. Classic.

Learn to respect a difference of opinion better.



The interview that was on TV? Are we talking about two different interviews?

If you keep up with this type of controversial narrative or approach, I'm putting you on ignore mode. Are you new to HF boards? Appears so. I'll let you decide your next steps. Debate in good faith or continue on with the two types of post above. Your choice

typical response from someone whose 99% chance of something not happening that is based 100% on no facts. I almost started to cry when to threatened to ignore me. That might work in your world but once you get past elementary school you are going to have issues in real life.

 

[lomiller1]

So are you saying Debrincat returns more than the 7th OA pick if his salary was less than $9M?

Yeah he receives way more than a7th OA if his contract situation was better.

 

[ole ole]

If Montreal wants him at the draft it will cost 2023 1st round pick unprotected.
Dach cost a top 15 and doesn't have Dubois number
Dubois is on pace of 88 pts this year.
If Dubois sign with Habs after trade, Coaching staff will have Headache to manage center line to be sure that Suzuki and Dubois ice time and play time with quality players.

Rather keep our pick and take the chance he comes to us free the following season. If he doesn't we still had our pick.

 

[ole ole]

Personally IMO:

- PLD decision to sign or not sign with the Jets depends (at least partially) on the direction they go with the rest of their core who multi have expiring deals in the next 1-2 years. No one in their prime wants to sign long term with a team just entering a rebuild, if thats what the Jets do.

- PLD might also be interested in what the Jets do with Mark S, PLD plays 2C duty behind Mark now, will he be happy with that moving forward? Not sure, but Mark averages 3 mins more per game then PLD now. PLD might look to a team where he's the 1C and the way he's playing this year he could find teams like that or if Mark is traded and Jets extend PLD long term is another option.

- Lets assume PLD doesn't extend with the Jets long term for one of multi reasons possibly and he informs the Jets of this fact at the end of the season. Just playing along with the OP idea

- I highly suspect Chevy would trade him pre draft this summer for a 2023 1st rd pick, good young roster player and maybe pick depending on the value of the younger player/1st rd pick to the highest bidder. Of course the value of the 1st effects the value of the young roster player and same thing in reverse. Chevy gives teams the right to talk to PLD's agent to address any concerns about an extension which helps with more teams making offers.

- Trouba returned a top 4 D and 20th OA pick and TSN reported that wasn't the best offer Chevy received it was just the one he went with......not sure why possibly to help Trouba out (doubt that) or maybe to get the Jets 20th OA back from a previous trade not sure if he was thinking about a OS, maybe the other offer came in late. But IIRC TSN reported the Pens offered more for Trouba but Chevy accepted the Rangers offer. Either way Trouba was seen as a #3D or 2nd pairing RHD at the time with top pairing potential and he returned a top 4 RHD and 20th OA pick so I would assume PLD would be similar return, maybe a bit more PLD plays center and is playing at PPG this season.

All I know is if he keeps playing like a 1C PPG and only getting 2C TOI his value is only increasing.

IMO

You brought up it up.
What happens to his value if his agent lets everyone know his intentions are to test free agency even if he's traded?

 

[ole ole]

Rangers are out, b'c WPG properly wants max return, pref top $, and NY mustn't be stupid and do 1 yr win now, assuming they even can make best offer.

There is an exception to this rule.
Panarin is an elite W, but he and his 11+m cap hit are gone when his deal is up.
Recovering most of that now would help us manage roster getting our young core under cap w/almost no forced moves.

bread has full nmc. he'd veto 99% of scenarios.
Howev, he has good experience w/PLD
and is familiar/comfortable w'LaF

That's a complete line.
If NY could recover some of
high cost of PLD
then also reasonable return in draft picks/futures for bread + LaF from MON
the value of locking down Chytil, Kakko, KAM etc could be worth it.

NY's + DAL 2023 1sts + Jones for PLD + Stanley is what I see, and that is too big a burn if PLD is not under contract and can walk.

It would have to be a virtual, prearrannged 3 way,
PLD to Rangers
who immediately flip to MON for bigger deal as described.


Not impossible but longer odds than an inside straight in poker

Well your theory just went out the door once you mentioned trying to get reasonable return in draft picks/futures for bread + LaF from MON.
Habs would have no interest in Bread and a reasonable return for Laf would be 2nd and a decent prospect/or older player that could help them now.

 

[SensFan4lyfe]

Go back and listen t

Go back and listen to his interview saying exactly what I said instead of saying “it has been brought up”. Why is Perrault example so hard to understand for you. He always said he wanted to play for the Habs. He was just smart enough to go there when his career was finished, not when he had a desire to win. Why would Dubois throw away his career?

How is going to Montreal throwing his career away

they have a good young D

Pieces up front to build a winner

They will possibly have a few good young prospects added from this draft

I'd say you should stop posting when you obviously have a hate on for the HABS

 

[Hunter368]

You brought up it up.
What happens to his value if his agent lets everyone know his intentions are to test free agency even if he's traded?

He's already done that........so that doesn't change anything as it stands today. Now if Chevy goes to his agent and says, you want to get traded this summer so you basically starts UFA one year early (in a way, I know not literally). He gains access to talk contracts with all teams, he basically has been given free agency one year sooner in a way........if a player wants to be traded and/or wants to test free agency every single one would take this offer b/c thats what they want. So it does nothing but helps his return to the Jets. Jets aren't going to withhold access to other teams out of spite & only to hurt themselves, that only hurts them so no point doing it. Plus after this years contract is done, he can talk to all teams and his agent can help organize possible trades with as many teams as he likes......again only helps the Jets. PLD is going to have many teams chasing him if he goes to market this summer or next.

 

[BLNY]

The value for the player is high. The value for a guy that has been pretty open about where he wants to be is not as high.

Whatever the consensus value for the player is, cut it down 1/3 to 1/2 unless he's willing to talk contract as part of the trade.

 

[ole ole]

I've said this for a couple years now, I don't think its any coincidence that so many of the Jets core are all signed to similar end dates on their contracts. I'm sure Chevy has been earmarking this summer or next TDL as either reupping the core or selling off the core to some degree. All teams go in cycles of rebuild, push, rebuild, push, etc with the occasional restructuring thrown in there here and there. Jets cycle with this core is approaching a fork in the roads, either reupping them or rebuilding. I do feel like this will influence PLD more then anything, it would at least for me.

I suspect PLD also wants to be the 1C where ever he goes, he's talked about basically being "the go to man" on the team in many interviews......this would be a interesting situation with the Habs. Suzuki & PLD have posted nearly identical career points, PLD has played with some better players, Suzuki has been gifted TOI that PLD doesn't get with the Jets in a 2C role behind Mark. This year to-date Suzuki 21:06 TOI with a shooting % of 25% which is unsustainable, PLD is 18:00 TOI and is shooting 18.9% which is a bit high also. So Suzuki is getting 3+ mins more per game TOI b/c the Habs largely have one scoring line, where as the Jets have much more scoring depth so PLD doesn't get that much TOI. PLD also will be paid 8-9 million on any 7-8 year deal where ever he signs, anyone dreaming of a team discount is dreaming & I have some great swamp land i can sell them it will work great for new condo development in rural MB country side.

In the end trade him or sign him, I'm not overly excited either way b/c I see the pro & cons either way.......and trust me having a player signed long term at that huge a cap hit worries me I dont care who it is. Plus it might be time to consider rebuilding/restructuring and not dragging out a rebuild like some teams do in the NHL.

But isn't PLD a Winger? A left winger at that?

 

[Hunter368]

But isn't PLD a Winger? A left winger at that?

No, he's a center, check his stats.....virtually all his time is at center. Only time he's played wing was last year when he was hurt and recovering for short periods of time. Not sure what gave you the idea he was a winger, he was a winger in junior days but CBJ converted him into a center when he was drafted years ago.

 

[ole ole]

He's already done that........so that doesn't change anything as it stands today. Now if Chevy goes to his agent and says, you want to get traded this summer so you basically starts UFA one year early (in a way, I know not literally). He gains access to talk contracts with all teams, he basically has been given free agency one year sooner in a way........if a player wants to be traded and/or wants to test free agency every single one would take this offer b/c thats what they want. So it does nothing but helps his return to the Jets. Jets aren't going to withhold access to other teams out of spite & only to hurt themselves, that only hurts them so no point doing it. Plus after this years contract is done, he can talk to all teams and his agent can help organize possible trades with as many teams as he likes......again only helps the Jets.

Not willing to resign with the team that trades him limits the teams that would be interested. Would be more of a rental in which only contenders would have interest. Now add how many contenders have the available cap space, all that hurts his value. Wouldn't be many bidders under those circumstances

 

[ole ole]

30 points in 28 games without the absurd shooting percentages needed by Suzuki to hit that same point total. If you don't believe he'll hit the 80-90 point range by year end you are probably mistaken, but there is no argument against the fact that PLD immediately becomes the habs best offensive center and immediately becomes the habs best defensive center.

Save your Shooting percentage for when we are talking goals not total point.
But yes PLS may become our 2nd best offensive player. Slick Nick is better and still waiting on what the future bring for Caufield.

No, he's a center, check his stats.....virtually all his time is at center. Only time he's played wing was last year when he was hurt and recovering for short periods of time. Not sure what gave you the idea he was a winger, he was a winger in junior days but CBJ converted him into a center when he was drafted years ago.

PIERRE-LUCDUBOIS​

• #80
• Left Wing
• Winnipeg Jets

Pierre-Luc Dubois Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Salary, Title | Hockey-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats of Pierre-Luc Dubois. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, trade, draft, salary and more on Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

Everywhere i look it says he's a winger

 

[dirtydanglez]

1st, 3rd, guhle

 

[Hunter368]

Not willing to resign with the team that trades him limits the teams that would be interested. Would be more of a rental in which only contenders would have interest. Now add how many contenders have the available cap space, all that hurts his value. Wouldn't be many bidders under those circumstances

Your being a bit unrealistic now to suit your narrative.

Being given access to talk to all teams in the NHL to get the best contract, playing situation, usage and chance at the cup..........he's going to give that up just to spite the Jets or b/c he'll take whatever the Habs feel like giving him? Come on now, do you really believe thats likely? Would you do that? I know virtually no one in business who wouldn't listen to all offers before making a decision......he's only going to listen to one offer? You think he's agent wouldn't have something to say about that also? His agent makes a % of his contract, his agent wants him to make as money as possible. He's going to listen to all offers he gets, obviously some will not be interesting either due to money or usage or team situation, etc......but to say he won't consider other offers is silly, not logical and nothing but your narrative.

If Chevy puts PLD on the market this summer and allows all teams access to PLD & his agent then PLD & his agent will listen to all offers and advise which ones they find most attractive to PLD factoring in all conditions and Chevy will work the trades phones with those teams (likely 2-4 teams)........only takes two teams to boost his value.

Lets say in some weird reality PLD refuses to take early access to talk to all teams and forces himself to stay with the Jets and plays one more year (see how weird that sounds when you read what your saying), he has no choice in the matter not like he's sitting out, Chevy already proved that won't work on him with Trouba. Then PLD is traded at next years TDL, retained for a 1st, decent prospect and 3rd pick and the Jets get over half next season of PLD services which has value to the Jets.

You think the Jets will let PLD walk for free in 1.5 years? Zero chance that happens.

You think only the Habs are going to make any offer and they will get him for a 2rd pick and B level prospect? Good luck with that plan. If rumors about the last draft were true, PLD denies it, but Chevy refused to trade PLD last summer b/c Habs offer wasn't good enough......so Chevy isn't giving PLD away. The worst value the Jets can possibly get for PLD is at next years TDL, retained he easily gets a 1st, decent prospect & mid range pick (3rd or 4th).

 

[Hunter368]

Save your Shooting percentage for when we are talking goals not total point.
But yes PLS may become our 2nd best offensive player. Slick Nick is better and still waiting on what the future bring for Caufield.

PIERRE-LUCDUBOIS​

• #80
• Left Wing
• Winnipeg Jets

Pierre-Luc Dubois Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Salary, Title | Hockey-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats of Pierre-Luc Dubois. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, trade, draft, salary and more on Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

Everywhere i look it says he's a winger

How many games have you watched PLD play in his NHL career? Not trying to be a dick, just asking b/c you need to watch him play more and stop reading the internet & stat watching. He's a center, only plays center and the only time he's play wing is for a short time after his trade to the Jets learning the new systems and when he was hurt. Seriously the Jets play tonight, watch the game and enjoy it. PLD plays every single game at center, sometimes he plays the boards on the PP.

PLD worked hard on improving his FO % over the summer, which has always been a weaker part of his game and this season him and Lowry are the Jets best FO guys. Literally the Jets 2nd line is PLD's line that he centers. Hopefully that clears that up.

 

[Hunter368]

1st, 3rd, guhle

While I would like that, that won't happen.

 

[sansabri]

1st, 3rd, guhle

no chance

 

[SUX2BU]

Save your Shooting percentage for when we are talking goals not total point.
But yes PLS may become our 2nd best offensive player. Slick Nick is better and still waiting on what the future bring for Caufield.

PIERRE-LUCDUBOIS​

• #80
• Left Wing
• Winnipeg Jets

Pierre-Luc Dubois Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Salary, Title | Hockey-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats of Pierre-Luc Dubois. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, trade, draft, salary and more on Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

Everywhere i look it says he's a winger

Pierre-Luc Dubois - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[NewEraGM]

Hans will just sign him as free agent and leave Winnipeg with nothing.

 

[Hunter368]

Hans will just sign him as free agent and leave Winnipeg with nothing.

Jets won't have him when he turns UFA, he will be traded this summer or at the TDL or sooner. Habs or someone else. By all means try to sign him if he gets to UFA. Its all good

 

[gojetsgo]

Hans will just sign him as free agent and leave Winnipeg with nothing.

this 100% won't happen

 

[LVCarson]

How is going to Montreal throwing his career away

they have a good young D

Pieces up front to build a winner

They will possibly have a few good young prospects added from this draft

I'd say you should stop posting when you obviously have a hate on for the HABS

Players want to play for winning teams. Montreal was the worst team in the league last year.

Every team has good young d. The difference is they other teams have good NHL defence men that should be playing in the NHL and their young d are developing in the minors.

Every team has better players up front to build on. That is why they are winning now, and Montreal was bottom of the league.

Everyone will be drafting at this years draft. Doesn’t mean Montreal will get the only good players.

I would say you should start watching hockey and not believing everything you read on the Habs forums. Why would a 24 year old player go to a team that just finished last, hoping draft picks and young d that should be in the minors turn out to be good enough to make the playoffs. PLD already saiid playing for a winning team is his most important priority, not playing for a losing team that hopes draft picks and a couple 40-50 point forwards will get them their.

Time to take off you homer goggles.