Player Discussion: PLD

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

I kind of think this lineup wastes Schief, Stastny, Copp, and Perreault. Schief needs someone (Ehlers) to help him drive play, Stastny can anchor a line as a center, Copp can drive a line and bring up its defensive numbers, and Perreault is playing well and can make plays for other shooters.

I'd prefer something close to:

Copp - Schief - Ehlers
Connor - PLD - Wheeler
Harkins - Stastny - Vesalainen
Perreault - Lowry - Appleton

Or something similar. Copp and Ehlers will help line 1 vs top matchups and boost Schief's production. PLD will *hopefully* drive line 2 enough to make good use of Connor's scoring. Stastny can offer solidity to a line to serve as a jumping off point for newer players to show their talents and score VS softer matchups (can always swap Vesa / Apples / Lewis). And that is a very good 3rd line right now so it would be a beastly 4th.

This is also a lineup that separates enough of Maurice' 'room leaders' and leads to saner TOI.

I just keep coming back to any lineup that features Lowry on the 4th line is one that Maurice isn't going to use. If he's healthy he is getting top 9 minutes and in many games top 6 minutes (if the Jets are protecting a lead).

 

[Trinity]

Mo has already said he plans on putting Dubois into whatever lines is struggling when he comes in. That's anyone guess right now who that could be. for all we know Stats line cools off and Scheifs line gets going.

So Scheifele as 3C?

 

[WolfHouse]

I just keep coming back to any lineup that features Lowry on the 4th line is one that Maurice isn't going to use. If he's healthy he is getting top 9 minutes and in many games top 6 minutes (if the Jets are protecting a lead).

I think this is a given... and stats hopefully is moved to lowrys wing instead of Copp demoted to the checking line
Perrault-Lowry-stats
Harkins-Gus-apples
That’s still a nice lineup

 

[Daximus]

So Scheifele as 3C?

Doubt it. I think it's pretty likely Statsny moves to the wing for now. That line likely won't keep trucking along for the next 6 games. If they do then our problem is where to fit in a top 6 C. Hell of a good problem to have if you ask me.

 

[Daximus]

I just keep coming back to any lineup that features Lowry on the 4th line is one that Maurice isn't going to use. If he's healthy he is getting top 9 minutes and in many games top 6 minutes (if the Jets are protecting a lead).

Yeah it's unlikely we do that. I think if we end up going to that mix it's a playoffs thing where we look to roll 4 deep and give the opposition fits.

 

[JetsFan815]

Torts might actually change his tune with Laine and I think Jarmo is likely going to tell him to be nice to Laine. This franchise NEEDS Laine to stick around. If Laine leaves they lose this trade by a country mile, there is already talk of Jones potentially not resigning with that team (something I think Dubois was likely fully aware of and probably factored into his decision to want out). If Laine doesn't stick around long term in CBJ they are in some hot water.

I think Torts will try with Laine atleast to start off with but 6 weeks into Laine's tenure in Columbus if Laine is having a bunch of bad shifts and turning the puck over I don't think Torts has it in him to control his emotions in the heat of the moment.

But the culture of the group isn't chasing away young, high-end talent. 24 year old Kyle Connor has committed until 2026. 24 year old Nikolaj Ehlers has committed until 2025. Connor Hellebuyck was 25 when he signed a 6 year extension. Josh Morrissey is 25 now and has committed long-term. These players were not their current ages when they re-signed - Connor was 23, Ehlers was 22, Morrissey was 24.

Also check out the ages of the top 6. Wheeler is the oldest at 34, Scheifele is 27, Connor is 24, Ehlers is 24, Stastny is 36 but is likely to be bumped down by a 22 year old C, Copp is 26.

The Jets are in the bottom third, or one of the 10 youngest teams by average age in the NHL. Young players are committing long-term and contributing at high levels. "Vet coddling" comes from playing some experienced guys over rookies, not because young players are being "held back" once they're on the team.

I'm not sure where you got that Wheeler was traded out of Boston because he didn't fit into their culture. Even if that were true, we're now 10 years on so it's moving into the range of not really being relevant.

What did Laine want to change for him here? Play top line minutes? He did last season - people will try to diminish this because "he was only there because Little was hurt" - but he played top line minutes last season, and was demonstrably LESS effective in the offensive zone than CSW has been. He was in his preferred spot on the PP. So the question still is - what did he want to change? The only conclusion I can draw is that Laine wanted to be the unquestionably number 1 player on the Jets and felt that just by scoring goals, he deserved that. It doesn't matter that the analytics show that he is, to quote the Athletic's stats guru Dom Luszczyszyn, "an extreme liability on defence" and "one of the league's worst defensive players". It doesn't matter that he can score goals but do nothing else on his own. No, the idea from Laine is "I have a really good shot and score goals so we should just build the team around me and do whatever it takes to make me happy, who cares about everyone else".

This idea that Wheeler and Scheifele are "pushing out young players" is demonstrably false. We'll see how Dubois fits in but I think he'll get along just fine and I think the team is far better with Dubois than Laine.

Great post. What Laine wanted was to be Winnipeg's Eichel where the entire team is around him, he gets top minutes and top icetime in every situation regardless of individual or team results and the GM to pay him 10 million.

That's what's going to be interesting about Columbus. He will get top minutes there but will he commit to them with his next contract if he doesn't have a top C to play with?

 

[Gm0ney]

I mean "chasing away" is a pretty incendiary way to put it. Trouba wasn't "chased away", Burmistrov's lack of talent chased himself away, Kane wanted to move before he played a game with the Jets, and we've heard nothing about how Bogosian didn't get along with the room (and his career certainly hasn't met top 10 pick potential).

I doubt I'm going to change your mind because it feels like you have an axe to grind here and have your mind made up, but at least frame the facts fairly instead of applying your own subjective commentary on anyone who is traded.

Sorry...got into a pissing contest about just exactly how many young talented players the Jets culture chased away. Even if it's just Laine (and Roslovic), that seems like one too many to me. Especially because Laine seems like such a special player. Maybe he's not. Maybe he's a headcase prima donna and Maurice was right to take him off the top powerplay in his rookie year when he had a shot at the Rocket just so he'd know he'd have to earn it. It just feels like the Jets may have really screwed up here...bet on the wrong horse (the Wheeler/Maurice horse over the Laine horse).

 

[tbcwpg]

Sorry...got into a pissing contest about just exactly how many young talented players the Jets culture chased away. Even if it's just Laine (and Roslovic), that seems like one too many to me. Especially because Laine seems like such a special player. Maybe he's not. Maybe he's a headcase prima donna and Maurice was right to take him off the top powerplay in his rookie year when he had a shot at the Rocket just so he'd know he'd have to earn it. It just feels like the Jets may have really screwed up here...bet on the wrong horse (the Wheeler/Maurice horse over the Laine horse).

I don't think the Laine horse wins championships. He may go on to win the Richard but a team that builds around him is making a mistake, in my opinion. I'd much rather have Scheifele and Dubois, and Wheeler, than Laine and none of those guys.

 

[Gumbyman2]

So Scheifele as 3C?

I could see this being warranted if Scheif continues with his last couple games overall effort.
I have watched a few versions of PLD's alleged 'infamous Last Shift' in a Blue Jackets uniform, and yo be honest, many of Scheifele's shifts have been equal to or worse than PLD's. Imagine if Scheifele played for Torts!! He would warrant under 5 minutes next game.
I trust Schrifele to be back in better form by his own drive, but...it better happen tomorrow night.

 

[JetsFan815]

Especially because Laine seems like such a special player.

He is definitely a "special" player. "Special" in the sense to be in the bottom 10 for all forwards that have ever played for Jets 2.0 in 5on5 shot metrics and yet almost never get below the 4th highest icetime out of all forwards on the team.

 

[Whileee]

"Scheifele should be at 3C"

Never change HFJets, never change.

 

[Gnova]

If the culture of the group is chasing away young, high-end talent and has nothing to show for it in terms of success, then I'm not sure we should just shrug our shoulders because everyone does it. Winnipeg has a hard enough time attracting talent without a culture that can't accommodate a cocky teenage goalscoring phenom.

Some of the young players who have not been "chased away" and signed fairly lengthy contracts:
Scheifele, Connor, Ehlers, Morrissey, and Lowry.

People keep using examples like:
Trouba - Was never staying in a Canadian market long term
Kane - Basically a conceited asshole and if was Buff who chased him out of town
Roslevec- Who? I forgot him already
Laine - Wanted to be "the 1st line star" and was probably third or fourth in Jets Jersey sales.

But don't forget some other players that were apparently mistreated and misused by the team:
Burmistrov, who was this great player that was treated unfairly and would be well with a change. Where is he now?
Petan, the player who should have been given top six minutes and the Jets were going to rue the day he went somewhere else.

This entire thing is just fans bitching because their favorite pet player either couldn't cut it as a NHL player, didn't want to play in a small Canadian market, or didn't want to put the work in to succeed.
It wasn't that their analysis about the player was wrong it was PoMo's fault, or Wheeler's, or Scheifelle, or Chevy's,....

 

[Gumbyman2]

I’m trying to make a concerted effort to not participate or even read posts about the ‘culture’ in the dressing room.

It almost ruined my enjoyment of the team and their games. Now that Laine is gone, I’m using that as a jumping off point.

Just going to enjoy the team.

I should follow your lead! Better health and sanity likely.

 

[Daximus]

I could see this being warranted if Scheif continues with his last couple games overall effort.
I have watched a few versions of PLD's alleged 'infamous Last Shift' in a Blue Jackets uniform, and yo be honest, many of Scheifele's shifts have been equal to or worse than PLD's. Imagine if Scheifele played for Torts!! He would warrant under 5 minutes next game.
I trust Schrifele to be back in better form by his own drive, but...it better happen tomorrow night.

I thinks it's a testament to just how good Scheifele is that a PPG+ center with 10 points in 7 games and tied for 5th in league wide scoring is having a down start to the year. Even when Scheifele is bad, he's still contributing.

 

[Gnova]

I thinks it's a testament to just how good Scheifele is that a PPG+ center with 10 points in 7 games and tied for 5th in league wide scoring is having a down start to the year. Even when Scheifele is bad, he's still contributing.

He is playing 25 minutes a night against the other teams top line and contributing on the score sheet.
If Scheifele's line was playing against the same matchups as the 2nd line they would be tearing up the score sheet.
The second line is looking so great because they aren't having to do the heavy lifting that the 1st line is doing.

 

[Daximus]

He is playing 25 minutes a night against the other teams top line and contributing on the score sheet.
If Scheifele's line was playing against the same matchups as the 2nd line they would be tearing up the score sheet.
The second line is looking so great because they aren't having to do the heavy lifting that the 1st line is doing.

Yeah it should be noted that McDavid also sees a tonne if ice so if you are trying match against him who ever you match up is going to see similar ice time.

 

[Channelcat]

"Scheifele should be at 3C"

Never change HFJets, never change.

Although given our current situation, not the craziest thing I have ever heard.

 

[GNP]

This is the lineup I would try when Dubois slots in, and I'd like to keep all our 4 centers playing their position there supposed to, and at the same time, I'd like to have 3 lines that can all score, and 1 checking line.

1) Connor / Scheifele / Wheeler ( leave it - it works)

2) Ehlers / Dubois / Copp ( very dangerous line)

3) Perrault / Stastny / Appleton ( solid and can score)

4) Harkins / Lowry / Gustaffson( checking - shut down line)

This would give us huge strength and skill at the center ice position, and you'd get big scoring from the first 2 lines, and pretty good scoring from the 3rd line.

The ( 4th) checking line with Lowry at Center would also pot the odd goal.

Only problem with this setup -- is Maurice would have to tell Lowry's dad, his son is demoted to the 4 th line. I think this setup would be powerful, especially if the 3rd line clicks together with Stastny.

ALSO -- you could move Stastny to the 2nd line on the wing to replace Copp, and move Copp to the 3rd line to be centered by Lowry -- this is what I think Maurice will do -- right here.

 

[Evil Little]

Torts might actually change his tune with Laine and I think Jarmo is likely going to tell him to be nice to Laine. This franchise NEEDS Laine to stick around.

Unless Laine takes a big step, though, or there's a large, unexpected rise in hockey-related revenue, he's not going to be worth much more than his qualifying offer. That's a huge problem for the Blue Jackets because he can just sign that twice and go to UFA in two-and-a-half years. At least Dubois's QO would be a huge bargain for two more years.

They are in tough and that's not even taking into account the fact that he appears to be an entitled baby who wants to be making lineup decisions.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

"Scheifele should be at 3C"

Never change HFJets, never change.

And I hadn't even gotten to trade Scheifele for a bonafide top tier RD.

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

So Scheifele as 3C?

Scheifele RW1?

 

[29from27and55]

has his quaruntine been lowered to 7 days yet?

 

[Cleatus]

"Scheifele should be at 3C"

Never change HFJets, never change.

Maybe not permanently, but the dude could really use a fire lit under his ass. Hopefully some real (center) ice-time competition will do that for him.

 

[10Ducky10]

Scheif takes on the other team's toughest lines and our other lines benefit from this.

 

[Bob E]

Scheif takes on the other team's toughest lines and our other lines benefit from this.

That’s true, though having Dubois take on the other team’s toughest lines frees Scheifele up from that task and they would benefit from that.

Dubois might be better suited for that role also.