Playoff Keefe

[ToneDog]

Probably.

Toronto did start with good intentions:

Experience coach (Babs), GM (Lou), followed by Hunter/Dubas.

It just hasn't worked out so far in terms of playoff success.

Keefe is as qualified as anyone would.

So far he hasn't proven to be good though.

At our peak we had Babs, Lou, Hunter and Dubas. Shinny fell under Dubas' spell and we now have Keefe, Dubas and a couple of capologists. #DumbShinny.

 

[Kiwi]

At our peak we had Babs, Lou, Hunter and Dubas. Shinny fell under Dubas' spell and we now have Keefe, Dubas and a couple of capologists. #DumbShinny.

That's an interesting take

Babcock lost the room and did some pretty questionable things before his much deserved firing

You could certainly argue Lou was a major loss but he did some bloody stupid stuff before he moved on,

That Marleau contract was a disgrace, as was the 2nd round picks for 4th line center deals we did multiple times

Hunter doesn't deserve any praise, his job results sucked and he can't get another NHL job

 

[Captain Crunch]

Why has Shanny/Dubas taken so long to fire Keefe? If their jobs are on the line (in which they are), why go forward with such a mediocre coach?

Because Dubas chose him, and Keefe will do whatever he tells him to do. Also, Dubas would be admitting he made a mistake.

 

[ToneDog]

That's an interesting take

Babcock lost the room and did some pretty questionable things before his much deserved firing

You could certainly argue Lou was a major loss but he did some bloody stupid stuff before he moved on,

That Marleau contract was a disgrace, as was the 2nd round picks for 4th line center deals we did multiple times

Hunter doesn't deserve any praise, his job results sucked and he can't get another NHL job

You are not wrong. My point is before everything when off the rails Babs, Lou, Hunter and Dubas was a strong management group (yes Hunter's drafts were poor) compared to the 4 we have now. The proof is in the pudding.

 

[Captain Crunch]

Lou wanted to go and had to go. He was always a temp

His biggest mistake was being too hands off. Especially with coaches and being reactive. New age management is i dont micromanage

Cam Neeley micromanage. If he had seen the pp suck he would have had a talk with the coaching staff

Shannay needed to mandate that Keefe needed a senior assistant coach to run by situations. What does Malhotra really know. Get a Assistant coach that an guide him as well and take pressure of him

Not only that, but Malhotra was never known for his offense, so why would Dubas/Shanny put him in charge of the PP? I will never figure that out. smh

 

[Captain Crunch]

Should Keefe be fired if Malhotra is back ?

The whole management team should be fired if Malhotra is brought back to look after anything offensively related.

 

[egd27]

I liked keefe I really did. I thought he ws open to new things, playing the stars more etc
But his failure to adapt in anyway whatsoever against the Habs, and not breaking up AM and MM, not switching up the PP, rolling Joe out there constantly - he'd be fired in most other cities.

Look at the game 5 debacle last post season.

Can't score on the shut down D and a hot goalie so let's:

• Completely stack a line so they know who to concentrate on
• Move a winger to centre for the first time all year
• Scratch the player who has one of your two 5on5 goals for a guy who hasn't played in 5 months

And he didn't learn a thing from that failure.

 

[Captain Crunch]

And it was by his own stupidity.

First he announces his strategy right before the playoffs on not worrying about line matching his top line. A dumb strategy but he announces it to the media right off the bat anyway. Doesn't make any adjustments in the series. Even the most basic hockey person could assume having two 11M dollar players driving separate lines might not be such a bad idea at least to try. Doesn't motivate his team in 3 straight series-clinching games to start on time. And hell even after he loses the playoffs still thinks he did nothing wrong and thinks it was just bad luck that he lost.

Just a horrible playoff coach.

I totally agree with what you’re saying, but if the so-called leaders of the team can’t get themselves motivated in the playoffs, they share just as much of the blame, if not more.

 

[horner]

Weren't Jon Cooper and Steve Yzerman hired without NHL experience?

Yzerman studied for yrs under Ken Holland I believe.
Really if you can't coach Tampa Bay then you are a dummy.

 

[notbias]

Yzerman studied for yrs under Ken Holland I believe.
Really if you can't coach Tampa Bay then you are a dummy.

So? You said were complaining about a rookie GM and coach. I pointed out two other rookies, you think they will end up being successful?

 

[Bomber0104]

So? You said were complaining about a rookie GM and coach. I pointed out two other rookies, you think they will end up being successful?

Every successful coach and GM were at one point a rookie, yes.

But until our thus-far total loser rookie President/GM/Coach combo start winning, they're on notice.

Sorry.

Comes with the territory.

 

[tronoleaf]

He's such a simpleton the only reason they didn't fire him is because they're still paying money to Babcock

 

[myleafs]

Yzerman studied for yrs under Ken Holland I believe.
Really if you can't coach Tampa Bay then you are a dummy.

In hindsight its obvious that Dubas needed a little more seasoning before taking over the reins like Yzerman did, although I think Dubas probably already had his mind made up on how to run things and no amount of time under Lou was going to change that. Would have been interesting to see how Lou would have handled the 3 amigos contracts.

 

[Bomber0104]

In hindsight its obvious that Dubas needed a little more seasoning before taking over the reins like Yzerman did, although I think Dubas probably already had his mind made up on how to run things and no amount of time under Lou was going to change that. Would have been interesting to see how Lou would have handled the 3 amigos contracts.

Nylander would have been traded or signed to a Kadri/Rielly deal.

No doubt.

Those would have been the options presented to him.

 

[IPS]

The troubling thing for me is the country club we're running here. Joe Thornton looks like he is finished but Keefe keeps running him out there on the first PP and giving him a regular shift. Matthews and Marner stinking up the joint and yet they get played 22+ minutes a night. No accountability.

Story of this season no doubt.

After the embarrassing choke the first thing Dubas did was come out and guarantee everyone's job security. Accountability comes second to not hurting anybody's feelings with this guy.

 

[hfman]

lol somehow this franchise finds themselves yet again with a coach who has never coached in the NHL, a GM who has never GM'd in the NHL, and a president who has never president'd in the NHL before

another rookie trio on our hands

the rebuild experiment is over. it plateaued last season, and flopped.

so where do they go from here. good question. we're walking into no man's land again and are right back where we were 10 years ago. good times ahead......

 

[Stonehands1990]

Every successful coach and GM were at one point a rookie, yes.

But until our thus-far total loser rookie President/GM/Coach combo start winning, they're on notice.

Sorry.

Comes with the territory.

There’s tons of rookie GMs who are killing it. Sakic, Yzerman, Mcrimmon, Brisebois. The thing is they all seem to have a better grasp of the game than Dubas

 

[tronoleaf]

Story of this season no doubt.

After the embarrassing choke the first thing Dubas did was come out and guarantee everyone's job security. Accountability comes second to not hurting anybody's feelings with this guy.

Yup. One wonders why.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

There’s tons of rookie GMs who are killing it. Sakic, Yzerman, Mcrimmon, Brisebois. The thing is they all seem to have a better grasp of the game than Dubas

It's probably the fact they are not trying to re-invent how hockey is played that helps them out more than anything. This hubris we have coming from the top is just ridiculous IMO. They strut around like they are so smart when they sign Engvall to a 2yr deal for 1.25m after he played a whopping 15 games in the league...let that sink in. He is SO desperate for a contract win (an over performing deal) that they will just throw shit at the wall and hope it sticks. Its comical at this point.

You cannot under any circumstances let Dubas trade any of the big 4...he will do something short sighted that will make him look good for a season or 2 and kill the long term chances for this team.

 

[Stephen]

There’s tons of rookie GMs who are killing it. Sakic, Yzerman, Mcrimmon, Brisebois. The thing is they all seem to have a better grasp of the game than Dubas

Some of those guys aren't rookies anymore, but I think the comfort level of having a Sakic or Yzerman as GM is they have a running check list of players and ingredients from their own championship runs to fall back on when making roster decisions. That's something I thought we had in Shanahan as well, but I'm not so sure now.

 

[horner]

Every successful coach and GM were at one point a rookie, yes.

But until our thus-far total loser rookie President/GM/Coach combo start winning, they're on notice.
E anal
Sorry.

Comes with the territory.

But those gms didnt try to change the game .

They all realize that you needed cap flexibility to build a team.

I can't remember one analyst that thought that having 40 mil tied up with 4 players was a way to build a team.

Also having all skilled players in your bottom six .

Dubas only tried to bring a different mixed when he realized his way wasn't working.

 

[Bomber0104]

There’s tons of rookie GMs who are killing it. Sakic, Yzerman, Mcrimmon, Brisebois. The thing is they all seem to have a better grasp of the game than Dubas

The common element with those types is playing experience. The names speak for themselves.

And sorry to all the wannabe's out there, but playing experience is basically a prerequisite for having success as a manager in hockey.

To truly understand what a player's value is, you should have been in that player's shoes/skates, or close to it.

Dubas was a stick boy who got hired by his grandparents.

He's never actually experienced sport in any real sense.

 

[Stonehands1990]

The common element with those types is playing experience. The names speak for themselves.

And sorry to all the wannabe's out there, but playing experience is basically a prerequisite for having success as a manager in hockey.

To truly understand what a player's value is, you should have been in that player's shoes/skates, or close to it.

Dubas was a stick boy who got hired by his grandparents.

He's never actually experienced sport in any real sense.

Brisebois is in the same boat as Dubas. He had a law background. He’s not the Brisebois who played for the Habs

Although I agree 100% it’s the lack of playing experience killing Dubas

 

[Le Cobra]

Yzerman studied for yrs under Ken Holland I believe.
Really if you can't coach Tampa Bay then you are a dummy.

TB PP is basically a shooting gallery. Put puck in front of player and shoot one timer - goes in 90% of the time

 

[Le Cobra]

In hindsight its obvious that Dubas needed a little more seasoning before taking over the reins like Yzerman did, although I think Dubas probably already had his mind made up on how to run things and no amount of time under Lou was going to change that. Would have been interesting to see how Lou would have handled the 3 amigos contracts.

If Lou stayed, this team would have looked more like the NY Islanders and probably made the final four. They clearly have a cultural environment of never say die and championship calibre work ethic in NYI organization that Lamoriello instilled throughout the organization. Same deal with Alex Anthopolous and his impact on the LA Dodgers.