The vast majority on this board don’t know math, never met it, never heard of it, never understood it. You can’t expect these people to understand what the rising cap even means. They certainly don’t know what a good contract is 5 years from now. They just know “the cap is going up” and any raise in the cap goes to whatever player they are trying to sign. Not how it works.
Value of: Players with 4-5 years remaining on an 8 years contract, where are the steals?
- Thread starter Zennon
- Start date
Zach Hyman is still the player he was in Toronto. The reason they pay McDavid so much is because he adds whatever increase in points Hyman has gotten. the increase in production is McDavids production not Hyman’s. Just like when Maroon went from 11 goals to 29 with McDavid and back to 11. Those 18 goals were McDavid’s not Maroon’s.
ScottyMascotty
Registered User
Wow, what an original insight. McDavid definitely adds to his point totals but stop trying to take away from what he did this year.
Xoggz22
Registered User
Figgy44
A toast of purple gato for the memories
- Dec 15, 2014
- 13,947
- 9,280
No steal on this list like Nurse stole the Oilers.
It’s a reminder of the risk involved in those contracts, 3/5 end up as steals, 1/5 neutral, 1/5 absolute dog shit. 1 dog shit contract where you pay 4-6 millions too much basically negates the 2-3 steals
It’s a reminder of the risk involved in those contracts, 3/5 end up as steals, 1/5 neutral, 1/5 absolute dog shit. 1 dog shit contract where you pay 4-6 millions too much basically negates the 2-3 steals
MakoSlade
Registered User
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
If I'm being conservative and say that a "steal" is somebody that would make and deserve at least 25% more than their listed cap if they went to market today, I've got:
Barkov, Tkachuk, Point, Forsberg, Heiskanen, Hughes, Suzuki, Reilly, Lindholm, Eriksson Ek and Nugent-Hopkins as "steals". McAvoy very close; wouldn't wildly disagree if you have him here too.
Barkov, Tkachuk, Point, Forsberg, Heiskanen, Hughes, Suzuki, Reilly, Lindholm, Eriksson Ek and Nugent-Hopkins as "steals". McAvoy very close; wouldn't wildly disagree if you have him here too.
There is a difference between "worth the contract" or "slight underpayment" vs. a true "steal". From this list, I would put Heiskanen, Hughes, Ericsson-Ek, Nugent-Hopkins, and Suzuki as steals.
No. You just are doing a weird fan boy thing.
I gave you another example and you couldn’t come up with anything but complaining. Show me something.
Figgy44
A toast of purple gato for the memories
- Dec 15, 2014
- 13,947
- 9,280
I think that's valid for higher value contracts, sure. I'm kinda in the same vein, but my definition was that it was so low it was enough to almost add half a contract (to upgrade from a lower calibre player) or pay for another full key role player on the roster. I considered a key role player typically makes a $3-5 million dollar player.
25% of a 9 million dollar+ AAV contract, yeah, that's upgrading from a $1 million AAV guy to a $3 million AAV guy.
Petes2424
Registered User
- Aug 4, 2005
- 8,505
- 3,319
It’s tough to find a better bargain in the league (on a star player) than Heiskanen. From the same team though, Seguin might be the worst of the lot, with Norris and Couturier being the most frustrating.
This is gonna be a big subject 2-3 years from now, with all the long term wealth contracts we’re seeing handed out to 21-23 year old players, who’ve only had one big year, etc. This theory of overpaying them early, in hopes the player becomes a “consistent” high-end player, and hopefully a great value contract. Lots of teams taking big chances.
Ottawa is already kind of paying for one of those with Norris. He just can’t stay on the ice. Then to have Stutzle underperforming in year 1 of his deal as well, can’t be the greatest feeling in Ottawa’s front office. Not to mention Chabot.
So the theory behind these long term deals, can end up biting a team. All 3 of those Ottawa players can live up to those deals. They’re all that talented. That’s the good part of it. They just haven’t yet, and let’s face it… at the end of the day, nobody accepts the injury card when you look back at a contract. Great current example is someone like Andrew Copp. Nobody makes the “core surgery” excuse for the guy NOT performing up to his contract, even though he had a surgery that takes 2 years before you feel normal again, if you ever do. He’s just considered overpaid….. It’ll be no different if Stutzle continues to not perform up to his contract, because of lingering injuries, he’s playing through. He’ll end up viewed worse than Norris because he’s actually playing. Strange logic, but that’s just how it is. If you’re playing, fans expect the production. Even if your wrist isn’t working right, or you can’t hit that next gear driving to the net, or getting separation, because your core strength isn’t back to normal yet.
So it’s a big year for a guy like Stutzle, to prove he’s worth $8.35m per. If he doesn’t this year, people will start talking.
That’s the downside of paying guys massive amounts of money for one big year. Sometimes they’re gonna be great value deals, sometimes they’ll be just right, and other times, they’ll become anchor contracts like Seguin’s. It’s the chance you take.
This is gonna be a big subject 2-3 years from now, with all the long term wealth contracts we’re seeing handed out to 21-23 year old players, who’ve only had one big year, etc. This theory of overpaying them early, in hopes the player becomes a “consistent” high-end player, and hopefully a great value contract. Lots of teams taking big chances.
Ottawa is already kind of paying for one of those with Norris. He just can’t stay on the ice. Then to have Stutzle underperforming in year 1 of his deal as well, can’t be the greatest feeling in Ottawa’s front office. Not to mention Chabot.
So the theory behind these long term deals, can end up biting a team. All 3 of those Ottawa players can live up to those deals. They’re all that talented. That’s the good part of it. They just haven’t yet, and let’s face it… at the end of the day, nobody accepts the injury card when you look back at a contract. Great current example is someone like Andrew Copp. Nobody makes the “core surgery” excuse for the guy NOT performing up to his contract, even though he had a surgery that takes 2 years before you feel normal again, if you ever do. He’s just considered overpaid….. It’ll be no different if Stutzle continues to not perform up to his contract, because of lingering injuries, he’s playing through. He’ll end up viewed worse than Norris because he’s actually playing. Strange logic, but that’s just how it is. If you’re playing, fans expect the production. Even if your wrist isn’t working right, or you can’t hit that next gear driving to the net, or getting separation, because your core strength isn’t back to normal yet.
So it’s a big year for a guy like Stutzle, to prove he’s worth $8.35m per. If he doesn’t this year, people will start talking.
That’s the downside of paying guys massive amounts of money for one big year. Sometimes they’re gonna be great value deals, sometimes they’ll be just right, and other times, they’ll become anchor contracts like Seguin’s. It’s the chance you take.
Hyman is not Maroon, and what about all if the other line mates that didn't have huge numbers while playing with him? McDavid also puts up better numbers with Hyman on the ice than without him, does that mean Hyman carries McDavid What else do you want me to come up with? Watch the games, Hyman is a bargain at $5+ million.
Yeah, sure, Hyman just suddenly became twice as good at 30. That’s totally what happened. Good talk.
- Dec 10, 2012
- 40,623
- 18,933
McDavid may have contributed greatly to Hyman's scoring increase, but Hyman still has to be good enough to be in position and physically score the goals without screwing it up. There are plenty of NHL players that could not do what Hyman has done, even if they played with McDavid.
Mogo
Registered User
- Jun 26, 2002
- 25,899
- 12,009
sandwichbird2023
Registered User
- Aug 4, 2004
- 4,081
- 2,226
Feels like Point needs more love in this thread. 40-50 goals and over 90 points regularly, great 2 way player and a playoff beast as well. Sure he benefits from playing with Kucherov, but Point is an amazing player on his own. If he is a free agent today, he should be getting $11m+.
CanadienShark
Registered User
- Dec 18, 2012
- 40,076
- 14,772
Point Tkachuk Barkov and McAvoy not getting nearly enough love here. i get 9 mill+ makes it feel "big"
But the gap between some of these guys is worth at least a mill or 2 when we're talking legit superstars vs just stars.
Hughes 1
Heiskanen 2
Tkachuk 3
McAvoy 4
Barkov/Point 5 or 6
Suzuki 7
But the gap between some of these guys is worth at least a mill or 2 when we're talking legit superstars vs just stars.
Hughes 1
Heiskanen 2
Tkachuk 3
McAvoy 4
Barkov/Point 5 or 6
Suzuki 7
BoardsofCanada
Registered User
I think OP makes a good point. Most of the players on the list are paid what they are worth. I don't see any steals. The only one that is possibly underpaid is Miro but not by much.
Bruce Granville
Registered User
- Oct 11, 2014
- 5,917
- 4,627
TheKrebsCycle
Throwing Confetti for Perfetti
