Player Discussion: Jake Muzzin

[Stephen]

His play has been up and down, and most recently up, minus this one game, I am just going to wait for more than one game to declare him useless.

Seems pretty simple to me, not sure why people can't grasp that.

Well, personally I feel like treads have been worn down on him since the mid point of last year. I don't like the organizational set up where the hardest physical roles are occupied by the most high mileage players and Muzzin is the worst example of this. But we can all evaluate and come to our own conclusions.

 

[notbias]

Well, personally I feel like treads have been worn down on him since the mid point of last year. I don't like the organizational set up where the hardest physical roles are occupied by the most high mileage players and Muzzin is the worst example of this. But we can all evaluate and come to our own conclusions.

I'd just like to see more than 1 game of him before I call him broken... he didn't look good last night, I agree, but he looked great in the playoffs and at the end of last season.

These threads are just pre-mature and everyone is talking like they know how he will play all year, which they have no clue about.

 

[Stephen]

Source on this? I'll trust the Toronto medical staff over speculation.

A guy who was being load managed first day of camp, coming off a season where he missed 43% of games and struggling with quality of play doesn't scream clean bill of health to me.

 

[Stephen]

I'd just like to see more than 1 game of him before I call him broken... he didn't look good last night, I agree, but he looked great in the playoffs and at the end of last season.

These threads are just pre-mature and everyone is talking like they know how he will play all year, which they have no clue about.

He was mostly broken last year. Of course you can evaluate him differently and trust he can rebound, but I personally would have been happier to have proactively given him the boot. That's $5.6 million that could have been spent differently. Still might if he ends up on LTIR.

 

[notbias]

A guy who was being load managed first day of camp, coming off a season where he missed 43% of games and struggling with quality of play doesn't scream clean bill of health to me.

He has back issues and has had them his entire career. It wasn't load management, it was a back issue.


His play at the end of the year told me he can play as a top 2/3 still.

He was mostly broken last year. Of course you can evaluate him differently and trust he can rebound, but I personally would have been happier to have proactively given him the boot. That's $5.6 million that could have been spent differently. Still might if he ends up on LTIR.

I am indifferent if we need Muzzin, as I think Gio/Liljegren is a good second pairing, but I am just going to hold off on judgement because him and Brodie together were amazing last year, I'd like to see him play with Brodie again when Liljegren is back.

The issue is, if Muzzin plays up to his standards, he is an amazing player to have.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

I give Muzzin a month. If he doesn't get better then he is going on Muzzin Island.

I hope he rebounds by then. Toronto has no one like him in the line-up. He is tough to play against, but if he can't skate then he's finished.

 

[hamzarocks]

I hope he bounces back but I wanted to dump him to Zona in the offseason

Muzzin + 1st + Knies for Chychrun +

Get a young top 4LHD while giving up Knies who won't be as big of a loss with Robertson looking ready and Amirov looking likes he's won his battle with cancer.

 

[freshwind]

You can't put a player with a limited NTC on waivers

actually, i believe the only players that cannot be waived are those with a full NMC

 

[Mugzy97]

I hope he bounces back but I wanted to dump him to Zona in the offseason

Muzzin + 1st + Knies for Chychrun +

Get a young top 4LHD while giving up Knies who won't be as big of a loss with Robertson looking ready and Amirov looking likes he's won his battle with cancer.

That's a disaster of a trade. If we're giving up our first and Knies we need to get a top pairing RHD in return.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

That's a disaster of a trade. If we're giving up our first and Knies we need to get a top pairing RHD in return.

He is a top pairing right side playing left shot dman .. has played it his entire life .. Brodie hands but a little faster and stronger

 

[Fogelhund]

Muzzin played a strong game last night. If he continues that play, we shouldn't be so quick to move him out.

Chychrun is an interesting guy.... he has all of the capabilities to be a top pairing elite D man in the league. He's also injured a lot, which to pay a Knies and 1st for him... that's something that concerns me.

 

[Notsince67]

It probably looks bad since he had a terrible turnover last night and gave the game away, but I have felt for at least a year now that Muzzin is declining. I think it's time to move him, especially since we could absorb the loss very easily on the left side with Rielly, Sandin, Gio (and Brodie is left handed too).

Time to move on? What could we get for him? Almost 34 years old, 5.625M AAV this season and next. Actual salary of 4M for those 2 sesaon I believe.

Untradeable until next year

 

[mapleleaf979]

He is a top pairing right side playing left shot dman .. has played it his entire life .. Brodie hands but a little faster and stronger

He isnt top pairing. I watched play alot at minor midget level, he was 6-2 200 ish pounds. He didnt dominate like he should have with that strength, speed etc at that age. My point is, he does not have high end hockey IQ. Many times he would go end to end and have no clue what to do. He played forward for a few games, he struggled making high end reads or using his tools to dominate. He is also injury prone. If he had high end hockey sense, he would be making 7 plus million.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

He isnt top pairing. I watched play alot at minor midget level, he was 6-2 200 ish pounds. He didnt dominate like he should have with that strength, speed etc at that age. My point is, he does not have high end hockey IQ. Many times he would go end to end and have no clue what to do. He played forward for a few games, he struggled making high end reads or using his tools to dominate. He is also injury prone. If he had high end hockey sense, he would be making 7 plus million.

I only saw da Marlies games when we played JRC but every single one i saw he was BY FAR da best player on da ice on either team .. and as a 4th generation Marlie family i have no skin in that assessment

 

[DraftSchmaft]

Well, personally I feel like treads have been worn down on him since the mid point of last year. I don't like the organizational set up where the hardest physical roles are occupied by the most high mileage players and Muzzin is the worst example of this. But we can all evaluate and come to our own conclusions.

It's weird when the 1 game excuse is used on players we've watched play for years. Is it not implied the opinion runs deep and is not based on 1 game.

The accumulation of observations suggests Muzzin is trending downwards.

 

[Stephen]

It's weird when the 1 game excuse is used on players we've watched play for years. Is it not implied the opinion runs deep and is not based on 1 game.

The accumulation of observations suggests Muzzin is trending downwards.

Yeah. It’s kind of the rate of decline, plus how healthy do you expect him to be by Game 1 of the playoffs and how reliable will he be once the postseason starts. And then some opportunity cost in not allocating his $5.6 million towards replacements. Remember the talk about putting him on LTIR in order to make a big splash at the deadline. Stuff like that.

 

[darrylsittler27]

I hope he bounces back but I wanted to dump him to Zona in the offseason

Muzzin + 1st + Knies for Chychrun +

Get a young top 4LHD while giving up Knies who won't be as big of a loss with Robertson looking ready and Amirov looking likes he's won his battle with cancer.

I really think the Leafs need Knies upfront. You cant just trade for those guys, playoff grit. I'm fine offering in Sandin or Liljegren plus Robertson.

We would then have Chychrun,Liljegren and Niemela as three young Dmen to build around.

 

[Golden_Jet]

He isnt top pairing. I watched play alot at minor midget level, he was 6-2 200 ish pounds. He didnt dominate like he should have with that strength, speed etc at that age. My point is, he does not have high end hockey IQ. Many times he would go end to end and have no clue what to do. He played forward for a few games, he struggled making high end reads or using his tools to dominate. He is also injury prone. If he had high end hockey sense, he would be making 7 plus million.

So you watched him 8 -9 years ago when he was 15, and he couldn’t of got better, since minor midget lol, and I thought he was a good junior player after minor midget.

 

[Menzinger]

Muzzin played a strong game last night. If he continues that play, we shouldn't be so quick to move him out.

Chychrun is an interesting guy.... he has all of the capabilities to be a top pairing elite D man in the league. He's also injured a lot, which to pay a Knies and 1st for him... that's something that concerns me.

His biggest on ice contribution is also offensively - and the Leafs just gave Rielly 8 years for that role in the team. So we really want to pay top tier assets for a guy to run the 2nd pp unit?

 

[Stephen]

His biggest on ice contribution is also offensively - and the Leafs just gave Rielly 8 years for that role in the team. So we really want to pay top tier assets for a guy to run the 2nd pp unit?

The answer to that is maybe. Chychrun has a big shot, so if you could get him to be the John Carlson to Matthews and Marner's Ovi/Backstrom, there's at least a rationale for him over Rielly on PP1. Rielly's history on PP1 has been up and down over the years and we've seen Gio take some reps in the early season.

 

[Dayjobdave]

Muzzin looked good against the Caps, but was awful against the Habs, obviously. I hope he has a good year and a good playoff, he will probably miss some games along the way.

His skating seems suspect but so does his decision making. It’s hard to see the rest of his contract aging well on any team, but fingers crossed.

 

[NewEraGM]

If Muzzin can’t play top 4 reliably and consistently, leafs have a big problem

 

[NewEraGM]

if Muzzin really can’t play anymore after 1 month :

Chychrun for Muzzin, Holl, Robertson and a 1st 2023

If Muzzin can’t play anymore, Muzzin and Holl have little to no value in this trade so it’s essentially Chychrun for Robertson and a 1st. Leafs also get a bit of cap space in the deal as well

 

[therealkoho]

I am not going to count him out just yet .. vet defenders often are not in game shape to start a season .. but one of these guys Muzzy, Holl, Sandin and Gio is likely going to get clocked .. i think Muzzy or Holl has best chance .. these 4 guys are not skating at an NHL level to compete against fast wingers .. you can't compete without an NHL defense no matter how good your forwards are .. I did not expect to see da Habs make our D look that bad .. a real shocker .. wow i missed camp and those of you who saw it and predicted it .. good call .. i hope it is not father time

It's hard defending that many odd man rushes that Leafs forwards kept gifting the Canadiens. This habit of trying to shoot easily blockable shots or the slow cross ice pass was killing them all night.

I think if the opponent is getting their goals off the rush, it shouldn't be the defence that gets the blame. Also while Caufield has a great wrist shot, he shouldn't be able to score from 45 feet with no obstructions. No team can defend an iffy glove hand, Murray really has to get square at the top of the crease, and not crouching back into the cage.

Remember when Jimmy Reimer was always back on his goal line and watching pucks whistling over his glove. It's a sad old story but Matt needs to break that habit, it's what got him a seat in the dog house up here in Ottawa.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I think he's cooked but it might also just be a result of playing with Holl who looks like he shouldn't be in the league.

It could be as simple as finding a guy that can work with Rielly and putting Brodie back with Muzzin.