Rumor: Planning Ahead: 2019 Off-Season

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Hey fellas. I have a question for you. Of our prospects currently in the NHL do you really see any of them as being the next group of core players? I feel Grundstrum and Wagner as the only two. Am I being to impatient?

I think Vilardi and Kupari are the guys going forward. Vilardi, when healthy, is the most talented forward we've drafted since Kopi. But he's only played 2 games this season so we really don't know what we have in him yet. We also haven't seen what Kupari can do on North American ice yet so its still up in the air. The way I see it is that I want to get these guys in the NHL soon so they can get their feet wet and not be relied on right away. But we'd still have to clear up some roster spots.
 
I think Vilardi and Kupari are the guys going forward. Vilardi, when healthy, is the most talented forward we've drafted since Kopi. But he's only played 2 games this season so we really don't know what we have in him yet. We also haven't seen what Kupari can do on North American ice yet so its still up in the air. The way I see it is that I want to get these guys in the NHL soon so they can get their feet wet and not be relied on right away. But we'd still have to clear up some roster spots.
 
Kopitar thinking it's a 45 minute job pretty much sums up his season and his captaincy.

i dont even understand what he is talking about

the game is 60 minutes long, he averages about 20 minutes a night.

did he just decide to split the difference? the f*** is he saying
 
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Hey fellas. I have a question for you. Of our prospects currently in the NHL do you really see any of them as being the next group of core players? I feel Grundstrum and Wagner as the only two. Am I being to impatient?

They're probably a long way away from identifying a new core. Guys like Grundstrom and Wagner and likely not going to be part of a specific core. If there is another championship in the Kings future, there probably isn't one player currently on the team that will be part of it, and it's possible that no player currently anywhere in the organization, at any level, will be part of it. Maybe the youngest of the young guys, but even then, they have to hit on the pick this year. Is Kupari a franchise player? Who knows. If they don't get a top 2 pick, whoever they end up has to be at least really good. Especially if Vilardi is a bust.

But yes, I would say you're impatient. This roster is too big of a mess to worry about it. Let this season finally end first, see what pick they get, and see if they can unload any of their old, expensive, and unproductive players. I don't think they'll be able to, but who knows. I'd say relax. There's a lot of trash they have to go through.

i dont even understand what he is talking about

the game is 60 minutes long, he averages about 20 minutes a night.

did he just decide to split the difference? the **** is he saying

It is essentially a three-hour day. You come here, you have breakfast and you start getting ready and the actual work on the ice is about 45 minutes if you average everything. What job really lets you do 45 minutes of work? That’s it.

There's probably more context to the quote, but he mentions breakfast, so apparently he's talking about the entire day? If you take the 20 or so minutes in the game, and the pre-game skate, and if there's practice in the morning, then his actual on ice activity might add up to 45 minutes. In the morning practice, everyone might be out there for an hour or whatever, but between standing along the boards, and talking to a coach, and the time after the 20 second burst where they actually do something, they're probably not doing something all that long. Especially for a guy that's played 1000 games, he might be pretty efficient with practice by now. Or, he has bad practice habits. However, all you ever hear is how professional he is, so he's probably ok with the habits. Then again, that could just be hockey people not being objective. Who knows.

That would be my guess if we're trying to make sense of that quote, because yeah, reading that by itself seems to make no sense. It sounds like DL or Sutter. Then if you see them talking, you get a better feel for what they're trying to say, whereas in print it tended to look like rambling.
 
Why is it when the players are going after a new contract they deserve every penny and it's just a business, but when their performance drops due to age or poor preparation on their part they suddenly become people we should care about? I don't mean caring about their physical or mental well being. I wish all of them the best, but I don't care about their finances.

That's what I'm saying. They're not people to us, because we don't know them, and they don't know us. If they win, they're great. If they lose, they're trash.

The hard cap with guaranteed contracts doesn't allow for financial efficiency. If you have to spend money, you will end up wasting at least some of it. It keeps costs controlled, but in individual contract negotiations, players have the upper hand. They're the talent, and they know it. If you don't give them the money, they'll walk, and it's then that much more difficult to find rare talent. The owners could crush the players in overall CBA negotiations if they really wanted to, but as long as they keep playing this partnership game, then money will be wasted on a lot of players. If fans around the league would stop showing up or watching, that would help owners even more. Players couldn't demand a damn thing, because their talent wouldn't be in demand.
 
That's what I'm saying. They're not people to us, because we don't know them, and they don't know us. If they win, they're great. If they lose, they're trash.

The hard cap with guaranteed contracts doesn't allow for financial efficiency. If you have to spend money, you will end up wasting at least some of it. It keeps costs controlled, but in individual contract negotiations, players have the upper hand. They're the talent, and they know it. If you don't give them the money, they'll walk, and it's then that much more difficult to find rare talent. The owners could crush the players in overall CBA negotiations if they really wanted to, but as long as they keep playing this partnership game, then money will be wasted on a lot of players. If fans around the league would stop showing up or watching, that would help owners even more. Players couldn't demand a damn thing, because their talent wouldn't be in demand.
Eliminate guaranteed contracts. Guarantee better hockey for fans.
 
Eliminate guaranteed contracts. Guarantee better hockey for fans.

You keep mentioning this ad nauseum, but I don't think it would solve the problem like you think it would. In leagues without guaranteed contracts(NFL), players negotiate portions to be guaranteed. The players that are able to get huge portions guaranteed are the players like Kopitar, Doughty, Quick, etc. that you are complaining about now. You will not be able to just cut them with no recourse.
 
You keep mentioning this ad nauseum, but I don't think it would solve the problem like you think it would. In leagues without guaranteed contracts(NFL), players negotiate portions to be guaranteed. The players that are able to get huge portions guaranteed are the players like Kopitar, Doughty, Quick, etc. that you are complaining about now. You will not be able to just cut them with no recourse.
I disagree. The types of players that you mentioned will not kill a team with a large contract. Even if you give 30 million in guaranteed money and bonuses that means the term of the contract is shorter. Three years of Kopitar at essentially 10 million per is not terrible. It makes Doughty an incredible asset. I doubt a goalie would get as much guaranteed since their contracts are generally not as high per year.

If you gave Carter 30 million guaranteed the Kings would be able to cut him or trade by now without lookbacks.
 
You keep mentioning this ad nauseum, but I don't think it would solve the problem like you think it would. In leagues without guaranteed contracts(NFL), players negotiate portions to be guaranteed. The players that are able to get huge portions guaranteed are the players like Kopitar, Doughty, Quick, etc. that you are complaining about now. You will not be able to just cut them with no recourse.
Long-term in the NFL is 4 or 5 years at most. The owners can put limits on the amount of the guarantee as part of the next CBA. I would be satisfied if they simply limited the max contract to 4 or 5 years, but I think being able to cut a player not performing commensurate to his contract is an even better solution.
 
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LA Kings closing in on signing their first college UFA this year - and he comes from @SCSUHUSKIES_MH Expext sophomore @Blizotte28 to ink ELC. Scouts say Lizotte is a smart, highly skilled fwd defined by his competitiveness. Centered top line on No. 1 ranked team & was a catalyst<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

He's smaller than Rempa, at 5'7" 172....but he outscored Mtl #1 pick and teammate Ryan Poehling by 11 pts.

Blake Lizotte at eliteprospects.com

 
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The guaranteed term is essentially rent seeking by the players. The cap limit is the same by the owners for their interest. I think the most reasonable solution would be max terms reduced to 5 years and player performance bonuses exempt from the cap and limited to max like 35% of the base contract. I think that realigns incentives in a way that encourages competition over rent seeking.
 
I disagree. The types of players that you mentioned will not kill a team with a large contract. Even if you give 30 million in guaranteed money and bonuses that means the term of the contract is shorter. Three years of Kopitar at essentially 10 million per is not terrible. It makes Doughty an incredible asset. I doubt a goalie would get as much guaranteed since their contracts are generally not as high per year.

If you gave Carter 30 million guaranteed the Kings would be able to cut him or trade by now without lookbacks.

You are talking about contract length, not guaranteed contracts.
 
Long-term in the NFL is 4 or 5 years at most. The owners can put limits on the amount of the guarantee as part of the next CBA. I would be satisfied if they simply limited the max contract to 4 or 5 years, but I think being able to cut a player not performing commensurate to his contract is an even better solution.

I don't know why people feel the need to over legislate contracts, just let the teams with poor GM's suffer if they are bad. I like to watch an actual sport that benefits better teams, not some modern age circle of parody that allows everyone to win because we dumbed the game down. Being a GM is about taking risks and sometimes those risks don't pan out. I hate that fans can't deal with the consequences of those risks.
 
I don't know why people feel the need to over legislate contracts, just let the teams with poor GM's suffer. Being a GM is about taking risks and sometimes those risks don't pan out. I hate that fans can't deal with the consequences of those risks.
I am for all fans getting to see the best product the NHL can put on the ice. That doesn't happen when there are players over 30 years of age with 5-6 years remaining on their deals, in many cases with an NMC as well, taking a roster spot from a younger and better player. Teams need the ability to free themselves from players who are no longer performing up to expectations.
 
I am for all fans getting to see the best product the NHL can put on the ice. That doesn't happen when there are players over 30 years of age with 5-6 years remaining on their deals, in many cases with an NMC as well, taking a roster spot from a younger and better player. Teams need the ability to free themselves from players who are no longer performing up to expectations.

There are 9 players in the NHL that are 30+ with 5-6 years remaining on their contract. Crosby, Parise, Suter, Marchand, Burns, Oshie, Weber, Vlasic, Price. This is not some rampant issue that is keeping young, talented players out of the league. This is you being upset that the Kings have some contracts on the books, which is honestly not a big deal. Teams are constantly benefiting from long term contracts, players like Gaudreau, Shuffles, Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin, MacKinnon are all locked up long term on great deals and the team has the ability to build around them knowing that the cap hit is set in stone for a good period of time. Again, there is risk involved for everyone, those guys signed for less AAV because they knew they were getting a guaranteed contract for a long period of time.
 
I don't know why people feel the need to over legislate contracts, just let the teams with poor GM's suffer if they are bad. I like to watch an actual sport that benefits better teams, not some modern age circle of parody that allows everyone to win because we dumbed the game down. Being a GM is about taking risks and sometimes those risks don't pan out. I hate that fans can't deal with the consequences of those risks.

I agree, and I think most people do; the 'problem' is a GM can create an uncleanable mess for the next GM due to contract length, so they take 100% of the risks but only have to face 50% of the aftermath. Not saying that's right or wrong, just that the issue isn't confined to the current GM/team.
 
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@KINGS17 Let's continue the conversation in this thread. It is a better place for it.

Okay. So let's see. You don't trust them to fix this current core. You don't trust them to be able to successfully rebuild. Yet, somehow you trust them to be able to move valuable pieces for decent returns and then be able to successfully draft and develop SOME talent? The old even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while approach it is then, I guess. Because the Muzzin trade is a lot to pin your hopes of anything you want happening otherwise.

Edit. Oh, and let's not forget the draft lottery changes and how it is no longer assured for the worst teams to get the top 3 picks...as we're seeing this year with the Kings. It will be even more of a gamble to just rebuild and hope.
 
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I agree, and I think most people do; the 'problem' is a GM can create an uncleanable mess for the next GM due to contract length, so they take 100% of the risks but only have to face 50% of the aftermath. Not saying that's right or wrong, just that the issue isn't confined to the current GM/team.

Again, there are risks for teams, but it goes both ways. You don't think Rutherford is very happy with the fact that Crosby and Malkin are locked up long term even though he didn't sign those contracts? What about Briesbois with Kucherov/Stammer/Hedman?
 
Congrads to Amadio...4 game point scoring streak from line 4. When was the last time a 4th liner on this team had a 4 game pt scoring streak?
Not much quality icetime. I think Amadio should have been #3 center from at least January. I hope they move Lewis, Carter, Toffoli and make
some legit room for Amadio. He's played better than all of them. Only a -1 in 41 games (on a -63 team) ....and a 14.7 shooting %. He's shown he can play and create offense...
which the other 3 are not doing at all....or scoring goals.
 
@KINGS17 Let's continue the conversation in this thread. It is a better place for it.

Okay. So let's see. You don't trust them to fix this current core. You don't trust them to be able to successfully rebuild. Yet, somehow you trust them to be able to move valuable pieces for decent returns and then be able to successfully draft and develop SOME talent? The old even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while approach it is then, I guess. Because the Muzzin trade is a lot to pin your hopes of anything you want happening otherwise.

Edit. Oh, and let's not forget the draft lottery changes and how it is no longer assured for the worst teams to get the top 3 picks...as we're seeing this year with the Kings. It will be even more of a gamble to just rebuild and hope.
Yup until AEG fires the current management team led by Luc Robitaille, it is very much the blind squirrel finding an acorn concept.

The Muzzin trade turned out to be good for the Kings. We'll see how good when we see how Grundstrom and Durzi develop along with the 1st round pick the Kings acquired.

Without a vision and a plan, something Lombardi had from day 1 on the job, management can't set the right course for their scouting and development team to follow. If Robitaille is finally admitting the Kings are in need of a rebuild then that's good, but he and Blake missed some really good opportunities to advance the process when they chose to keep some of the players on the current roster because they erroneously believed the Kings were contenders going into the 2017-18 season.

For me, the jury is still out on Blake, but IMO Robitaille should be shown the door.
 
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There are 9 players in the NHL that are 30+ with 5-6 years remaining on their contract. Crosby, Parise, Suter, Marchand, Burns, Oshie, Weber, Vlasic, Price. This is not some rampant issue that is keeping young, talented players out of the league. This is you being upset that the Kings have some contracts on the books, which is honestly not a big deal. Teams are constantly benefiting from long term contracts, players like Gaudreau, Shuffles, Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin, MacKinnon are all locked up long term on great deals and the team has the ability to build around them knowing that the cap hit is set in stone for a good period of time. Again, there is risk involved for everyone, those guys signed for less AAV because they knew they were getting a guaranteed contract for a long period of time.
It's true these players traded some AAV for security, but not much AAV. I still think shorter contracts are better for the fans.

I understand why you went with the 5-6 years remaining angle in your post since it was the numbers I mentioned, but in reality the contracts with even 2-3 years remaining for a player over 30 years old who is under performing are almost just as bad.
 
Yup until AEG fires the current management team led by Luc Robitaille, it is very much the blind squirrel finding an acorn concept.

The Muzzin trade turned out to be good for the Kings. We'll see how good when we see how Grundstrom and Durzi develop along with the 1st round pick the Kings acquired.

Without a vision and a plan, something Lombardi had from day 1 on the job, management can't set the right course for their scouting and development team to follow. If Robitaille is finally admitting the Kings are in need of a rebuild then that's good, but he and Blake missed some really good opportunities to advance the process when they chose to keep some of the players on the current roster because they erroneously believed the Kings were contenders going into the 2017-18 season.

For me, the jury is still out on Blake, but IMO Robitaille should be shown the door.

Fair enough. I agree. The jury is still out no matter which path is chosen. Not so good so far though.
 
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