GWT: PL Matchweek Catch-Up into (mostly) MW18 & MW19

[bluesfan94]

My favorite thing about ESR is that he wears his socks so low

 

[Evilo]

Lacazette wasn't trained as a striker in his youth days.
He was a right winger.
He was played as striker after turning pro.

 

[AB13]

A thing I thought about yesterday it that it is insane how people get crazy over every 2nd academy graduate at Lyon or Ajax but not superior Premier League home grown talent. The argument that most of the academy players aren’t good enough is pretty common and pretty dumb.

Most of the players at Arsenal, at Chelsea, at PSG will make it at least at a very good PL level. London have one of the largest talent pools in the world and Arsenal and Chelsea are really taking advantage of that. You could argue academy players have been the best players at both clubs this season (Saka/Mount, with the likes of Smith-Rowe and James being influential). I remember Arsenal fans once wanted Moussa Diaby who is not as good as Saka, of course. Cities like London and Paris will keep pumping out great talents that top clubs can use. PSG, Chelsea and Arsenal all have top 10 academies in the world for sure, and a lot of that has to do with being in large cities with huge talent pools.

 

[Evilo]

Not true.
What makes a great academy is not the ressources of the area.
PSG's academy might produce more pro talent but Lyon's academy produces more high end talent while focusing on their area mostly.
And let's not compare PSG's academy to Arsenal or Chelsea please they don't belong in the same tier.

 

[Evilo]

And also academies from Monaco, Rennes, Lyon and others are scouting the paridian area.
Where do you think Martial, Mbappe, and co came from?

 

[AB13]

Not true.
What makes a great academy is not the ressources of the area.
PSG's academy might produce more pro talent but Lyon's academy produces more high end talent while focusing on their area mostly.
And let's not compare PSG's academy to Arsenal or Chelsea please they don't belong in the same tier.

PSG have had Soumare, Coman, Kimpembe, Diaby, Nkunku, Rabiot, Moussa Dembele, Edouard, Areola, Maignan, Aouchiche, Adli ( and Guendouzi who you rate) in their academy. Very few clubs in world football come close to that. Lyon have produced Aouar, Caqueret, Martial, Tolisso, Gouiri and Cherki. Good, in fact very good but not PSG level. Benzema and Lacazette are obviously great, long time ago though.

Coaching and footballing education are the most important aspects of having a good academy, but area is important too. There is obviously a larger talent pool in London/Paris compared to Manchester, Liverpool, Lyon or Marseille. Investment is important too. What the big oil clubs have done is taken the heart out of the game and consolidated it by giving us modern super academies. City's is special. Chelsea's is a state of the art masterpiece to be studied. PSG's is amazing

 

[Evilo]

Lyon produced Giuly, Lacazette, Benzema, Ben Arfa, Fekir, Aouar, Martial, Tolisso and almost all come from their own area.
For PSG, only Coman and Kimpembe are top level for now.

Ajax and Lyon produce numbers but also high quality players because they can do what others can't for now.

 

[AB13]

That PSG production line is more impressive than the Lyon one no matter how you put it. Most of the players I mentioned will have better careers than everyone but Benzema, Tolisso, Lacazette, Aouar and Martial.

Soumare, Coman, Kimpembe Nkunku, Rabiot are all top level now and the others are either close to it or will reach it.

 

[Evilo]

You're projecting without any idea. Just like you rate Soumare.

How many of those PSG players ARE or have been close to world class? Kimpembe, Coman, Rabiot. That's it.
Lyon? Aouar, Fekir, Benzema, Ben Arfa, Lacazette, Martial and Tolisso all qualify more or less.

 

[AB13]

You're projecting without any idea. Just like you rate Soumare.

How many of those PSG players ARE or have been close to world class? Kimpembe, Coman, Rabiot. That's it.
Lyon? Aouar, Fekir, Benzema, Ben Arfa, Lacazette, Martial and Tolisso all qualify more or less.

Looking at Benzema, Ben Arfa, Fekir and Lacazette is hardly relevant since it has been a decade since they came through. That PSG academy has much more recent depth and high end talent. Not even an argument. Aouar and Caqueret are top talents but PSG have so much more depth.

 

[Evilo]

Hardly relevent? How?
I forgot Umtiti too.
Lyon has produced nearly 10 top players in 10 years. Again, PSG doesn't compare (even though they produce more in terms of numbers). In fact, how many teams compare at all?

 

[AB13]

Hardly relevent? How?
I forgot Umtiti too.
Lyon has produced nearly 10 top players in 10 years. Again, PSG doesn't compare (even though they produce more in terms of numbers). In fact, how many teams compare at all?

The players Lyon produced 10 years ago are not really an indication of how strong their academy currently is. Recently, PSG have produced more high end talent as well. Soumare, Kimpembe
Coman, Nkunku, Moussa Dembele, Edouard vs Caqueret, Tolisso, Aouar, Martial.

 

[Evilo]

I have no idea what you're even talking about.
You're trying to judge an academy on like the last 5 years...
Everyone knows it's impossible. And even if you are, Coman, Dembele left more than 5 years ago. Tolisso too.
You're mixing every generation, it's just weird.

 

[AB13]

I have no idea what you're even talking about.
You're trying to judge an academy on like the last 5 years...
Everyone knows it's impossible. And even if you are, Coman, Dembele left more than 5 years ago. Tolisso too.
You're mixing every generation, it's just weird.

When judging the current strength of an academy, you can’t go back more than like 5-8 years. Is Benzema coming through 15 years ago really relevant? Is Barcelona’s academy still elite because of Busquets, Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Pique and Fabregas? If we look at players born since let’s say 1990, PSG win against most clubs in the world.

 

[Evilo]

Judging the current strength is obviously judging how players evolve. Or you're just counting numbers.
Is Benzema coming through 15 years ago relevant? Of course. Because Benzema is from Lyon. Tolisso is from Tarare, Aouar is from Lyon, Umtiti is from Lyon, Lacazette is from Lyon, Fekir is from Lyon, etc, etc...
It is a total anomaly. Lyon shouldn't produce more world class football than Marseille, Lille or Toulouse. But they do. Every year, they produce a high end player. PSG doesn't produce a high end player every year even though they have arguably the best area in the world.
And Martial, Fekir, Tolisso, Lacazette, Aouar, Caqueret, Umtiti and all are all born post 1990.

Again, who in PSG touches that level? Rabiot, Kimpembe, Coman. Areola could have.
In fact, it's quite easy : look up the number of players playing for the NT in the last 10 years. More come from Lyon than PSG.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

PL Matchweek thread, eh?

 

[Blender]

I'm certainly not confident about our chances against Leicester. With our inconsistent scoring and our vulnerability to a great counter attack, Leicester is primed to rip us apart.

I wouldn't be shocked if we get pressed off the field and Lampard gets sacked for it. I hope for a much better outcome though.

 

[gary69]

I'm certainly not confident about our chances against Leicester. With our inconsistent scoring and our vulnerability to a great counter attack, Leicester is primed to rip us apart.

I wouldn't be shocked if we get pressed off the field and Lampard gets sacked for it. I hope for a much better outcome though.

Leicester needs to have somebody sent off early, Ndidi would be nice.

 

[Blender]

Leicester needs to have somebody sent off early, Ndidi would be nice.

Hopefully Choudhury is starting, as chances of a red card go way up.

 

[S E P H]

Lacazette wasn't trained as a striker in his youth days.
He was a right winger.
He was played as striker after turning pro.

That makes more sense since he has to track back as a winger, but he's too much inclined to stay in the middle of the park. Rarely do I see him move to the wings if there was space available, compared to the small sample-size I've seen from Smith-Rowe.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

Okay Lampard, be a pal and start this lineup:

CHO - Werner - Ziyech
Mount - Havertz
Kante
Chilwell - Silva - Zouma - James
Mendy

Callum, Mason, and Chilwell would be a decent overwhelm against whichever of Justin or Castagne is wide right. Having Ziyech and James back together would be great. Havertz has shown some flashes and in a game that I think should be pretty open he could thrive in the space behind Tielemans.

 

[S E P H]

Not true.
What makes a great academy is not the ressources of the area.
PSG's academy might produce more pro talent but Lyon's academy produces more high end talent while focusing on their area mostly.
And let's not compare PSG's academy to Arsenal or Chelsea please they don't belong in the same tier.

PSG have had Soumare, Coman, Kimpembe, Diaby, Nkunku, Rabiot, Moussa Dembele, Edouard, Areola, Maignan, Aouchiche, Adli ( and Guendouzi who you rate) in their academy. Very few clubs in world football come close to that. Lyon have produced Aouar, Caqueret, Martial, Tolisso, Gouiri and Cherki. Good, in fact very good but not PSG level. Benzema and Lacazette are obviously great, long time ago though.

Coaching and footballing education are the most important aspects of having a good academy, but area is important too. There is obviously a larger talent pool in London/Paris compared to Manchester, Liverpool, Lyon or Marseille. Investment is important too. What the big oil clubs have done is taken the heart out of the game and consolidated it by giving us modern super academies. City's is special. Chelsea's is a state of the art masterpiece to be studied. PSG's is amazing

I am pretty sure to state that common sense dictates the most wealthiest clubs have resources and the aura to attract top end youth talent regardless of any area or region. Just look at Ajax, they're better at development than any club in Ligue 1 and they get all that youth talent is because they're known as the best team in the Netherlands. Citeh has some of the best youth players across Europe and that's because they can give high wages at a very early age. That's how Barca and Real Madrid always normally have either the best Spanish or Brasilian/South American prodigy in their youth ranks all the time (likewise with Bayern and German kids like Kimmich). Remember when that Korean kid was supposed to be the next Messi? Well, Barca bought him because he knew he would have a great chance to develop at Barcelona over any other club because kids know how big these clubs are. Lyon is just an exception to this rule, not the norm.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

Is it bad that I kinda love these terrible WBA kits

 

[gary69]

Okay Lampard, be a pal and start this lineup:

CHO - Werner - Ziyech
Mount - Havertz
Kante
Chilwell - Silva - Zouma - James
Mendy

Callum, Mason, and Chilwell would be a decent overwhelm against whichever of Justin or Castagne is wide right. Having Ziyech and James back together would be great. Havertz has shown some flashes and in a game that I think should be pretty open he could thrive in the space behind Tielemans.

Kante can't play today.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

Kante can't play today.

Did he not serve his suspension the other day...?