PK Subban has retired - does he make the hall of fame, and where does he rank all-time?

[jigglysquishy]

Not that I agree with the logic, but sticking around for a few years as a #5 defenseman to hit 500 points and 1000 games would help his chances a lot.

 

[The Panther]

He'll get in the Hall as a broadcaster... in 2052.

 

[buffalowing88]

I fully expect him to make the HHOF. Has a Norris, was a notable player and was such in Montreal, plus he'll almost certainly stick around in the media and keep his "fame" up. I don't even think he'll wait long. Won't hurt him either if places like CBC (or insert whatever other outlets) start writing articles about why the only black Norris winner isn't in the HHOF.

If the race thing does come up maybe throw him in down the road as a Builder for his contributions to making minority players higher profile early in his career.

I really hope some lazy journo for Deadspin or something doesn't see this as bait to write an article calling the sport racist for not inducting him while cherry-picking stats.

It's inevitable, but a guy can hope/dream.

I did like Subban's peak, but as pointed out earlier, he came about during a historic run of defensive players. There are guys like Doughty, Karlsson, and Hedman alone who lapped him. Very good player. Top-300 all-time.

 

[CharasLazyWrister]

Subban had a few years where he was a scary ass player to go up against. He certainly qualified as one of those “electric” players who could take over a game.

But even though I’m being lazy by not citing any statistics, you can’t tell me a player of his caliber can make the HHOF being out of the game by his early 30s with a few rather mediocre seasons leading up to retirement.

If his career path qualifies him for the HHOF, I’d be shocked. Winning a Norris doesn’t just make you an inductee

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Wasn't there some best-on-best international tourney where he only played 12 minutes or something because Canada insisted on playing Dan Hamhuis instead?

subban and hamhuis played different sides

my memory is subban was behind weber (better than him), pietrangelo (arguably his equal, but they brought pietro’s partner bouwmeester so for the short tournament they would have established chemistry), and seabrook (the tagalong partner of another dman better than subban: duncan keith)

hamhuis iirc also was a scratch every game or almost. he was behind keith, j-bo, and vlasic. i would argue he and vlasic were basically equals at the time and hamhuis maybe would have been better on international ice because of his skating. ironically hamhuis had been weber’s partner in nashville before rhan suter.

 

[Staniowski]

He might get in, and he might not. I wouldn't be surprised either way.

He only played 12 seasons and he wasn't a very good player for many of those seasons.

But he does have some things going for him....he was a big "star" for a while; he's a big personality in the hockey world; and being a racial minority is probably going to help his case.

 

[EpochLink]

Hard to say if he makes the Hall of Fame, Erik Karlsson has a better chance on making the hall then he does.

 

[byrath]

Larry Murphy and Doug Wilson are the last two modern players on that HoH list, and I'd put Subban a bit below those guys.
Good luck comparing PK Subban to Harvey Pulford or Lester F'ing Patrick though lol

 

[bobholly39]

The fact Lindros seem to have generated thought and had to wait does not bode well, that and like mentioned how good just around him draft were for Ds.

He could have a really good media career and build a lot of contacts with future voters and get in someday with a Norris and the Mtl fame, the not all of fame Norris winner at the moment are who, Randy Carlyle.

If we would remove the spectacular element (which we should not when talking all of fame, but if we would) I am not certain how you put Subban career above Markov.

It's funny when the other poster and you mentioned Lindros I thought that was odd at first. I didn't realize when I made this thread how low PK's GP count actually is.

Lindros - 760 GP
PK - 834 GP

Quite close. Obviously Lindros had the better career. This definitely hurts PK. I suppose you have to take into account intangibles though. Lindros's were negative - had a lot of negativity in regards to how his career played out/trade requests. PK is the other way - extremely popular hockey personality, very charitable, charismatic etc. This helps his case at least somewhat.

For career to me it's Subban > Markov due to peak and playoffs. Markov was consistent a lot longer though, that's one big edge. Even when he left the NHL at age 38 he was playing at a higher level than PK past ~couple of years.

Was Subban actually considered a serious Conn Smythe candidate in 2017?

He was the only Predator to get a vote, but one third-place vote doesn't really matter. It seemed like the talk at the time was that Pekka Rinne would have been the leading candidate had Nashville won.

To me it was a very clear 2 horse race for the Smythe in 2017 had Nashville won, either Rinne or PK. I think in general Rinne was seen as favorite over PK, but he had a very weak finals, which I think hurt him. I just went to look back at the stats now, and Rinne has:

- Game 1, 4 goals in 11 shots
- Game 2, 4 goals in 25 shots
- Game 5 3 goals in 9 shots

All 3 losses.

Obviously, if Nashville wins game 6 and if Rinne was stellar in winning game 7, he'd have had a chance still. Still I remember thinking going into the finals it was a 2 horse race, but as finals played out PK seemed like the favorite to me.

 

[JackSlater]

subban and hamhuis played different sides

my memory is subban was behind weber (better than him), pietrangelo (arguably his equal, but they brought pietro’s partner bouwmeester so for the short tournament they would have established chemistry), and seabrook (the tagalong partner of another dman better than subban: duncan keith)

hamhuis iirc also was a scratch every game or almost. he was behind keith, j-bo, and vlasic. i would argue he and vlasic were basically equals at the time and hamhuis maybe would have been better on international ice because of his skating. ironically hamhuis had been weber’s partner in nashville before rhan suter.

Doughty, not Seabrook. Hamhuis played almost every game but barely saw the ice.

 

[gotyournose]

Subban was the healthy scratch for most of the 2014 Olympics.

Pretty much sums up Subban. Good enough to be on the Olympic team (though definitely we’re other candidates), but when the Olympics actually take place he’s sitting in the press box. Too risky for Babcock and Canada, only dressed for one game only.

 

[FerrisRox]

No, he doesn't make the Hall of Fame and I don't think he's even close to the cut or anywhere close to being in the mix to be a Hall of Fame either.

Significantly more mobile and agile. Much better puck carrier. An actual driver of the play and not just a guy with decent puck skills and dynamite shot.

Subban was also significantly better than Dion Phaneuf defensively. I don't see any credible comparison between the two.

 

[JackSlater]

Pretty much sums up Subban. Good enough to be on the Olympic team (though definitely we’re other candidates), but when the Olympics actually take place he’s sitting in the press box. Too risky for Babcock and Canada, only dressed for one game only.

Subban was better than the eighth best defenceman on the team but they went with a strict left-right mix and yes, it seems clear that Babcock trusted Hamhuis more given Canada's loaded right side. Still better than Letang never making it on the right side I guess.

 

[DeysArena]

He shouldn't make it because his prime wasn't good enough to offset his rapid decline. However, the HHOF selection committee has made lots of questionable picks, so who knows?

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

The fact Lindros seem to have generated thought and had to wait does not bode well, that and like mentioned how good just around him draft were for Ds.

He could have a really good media career and build a lot of contacts with future voters and get in someday with a Norris and the Mtl fame, the not all of fame Norris winner at the moment are who, Randy Carlyle.

If we would remove the spectacular element (which we should not when talking all of fame, but if we would) I am not certain how you put Subban career above Markov.

Excellent point.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Significantly more mobile and agile. Much better puck carrier. An actual driver of the play and not just a guy with decent puck skills and dynamite shot.

For a while there I'd have put him 2nd in the NHL after Karlsson for being able to lug the puck into and around the zone.

Oh, no question - but in terms of career value...? I think we're closer to Phaneuf than we are to some of the HOF level names being thrown around.

Definitely not the same skill set.

Also, Subban doesn't get enough discredit for how quickly his athleticism and skating gave out in his last handful of years...

 

[NordiquesForeva]

I had thought Wilson made it in as a builder, but I guess I was wrong. Huh.

I digress...I view Subban much like Cam Neely - a brief, but very high peak where they were top-3/4 at their positions for ~3-5 years, highly respected in the game, big personalities, and well-liked by the media. Not much meat on the bone outside of their peaks, but with Neely it was due to injury and with Subban he just kind of fell off a cliff at one point.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Since 1954, there's 1 HoF-eligible Norris winner (Randy Carlyle) who isn't in the HoF, and he was nowhere near winning a Norris ever again.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Since 1954, there's 1 HoF-eligible Norris winner (Randy Carlyle) who isn't in the HoF, and he was nowhere near winning a Norris ever again.

IMO, Giordano is going to join Carlyle and Subban in that club

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Well shit... I was going to say Doug Wilson isn't in, but then on a whim double checked and didn't realize he recently did get in.

Subban is in that tier with Wilson and Carlyle as Norris one-offs that have decent but not outstanding careers. It took Wilson 25yrs of waiting so... I mean... stranger things, but I wouldn't hold my breath or expect it.

Which begs the question and I haven't dug back to see what the takes were at the time... do you suppose Wilson got inducted as a not quite enough as a player not quite enough as a builder but both combined kinda maybe HOF worthy?

Wilson should have gotten in sooner. To me he was underrated. A much better player than Carlyle or Subban.
May have had the best shot of any left shooting defensemen ever. Excellent passer also. Great skater until injuries slowed him down. Stuck too long in Chicago.

 

[MarkStone]

I had thought Wilson made it in as a builder, but I guess I was wrong. Huh.

I digress...I view Subban much like Cam Neely - a brief, but very high peak where they were top-3/4 at their positions for ~3-5 years, highly respected in the game, big personalities, and well-liked by the media. Not much meat on the bone outside of their peaks, but with Neely it was due to injury and with Subban he just kind of fell off a cliff at one point.

Didn't Subban have severe back injuries?

Anyways, it would be peak "Old boys club" for Kevin Lowe to have been inducted but not PK.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Don't compound problems. Inducting Kevin Lowe stinks...adding PK Subban because of it just makes the problem worse, it doesn't improve the situation. Coincidentally enough, we're in a thread talking about a d-man who routinely compounded problems...

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

The only hope he should have is his Norris trophy and there are many who would question that trophy.

For poops and giggles, imagine the stars aligned and Rielly won a Norris trophy in the next 4 years. Would we be arguing he should be in?

70+ - 1/9 Mo 0/13 PK
60+ - 2/9 Mo 1/13 PK
50+ - 3/9 Mo 4/13 PK
40+ - 3/9 Mo 5/13 PK
30+ - 5/9 Mo 9/13 PK
20+ - 9/9 Mo 10/13 PK

Pt/GP - 0.57 Mo 0.56 PK

Rielly has 4 years to hit the same point.

 

[OrrNumber4]

A way to think about it...if Subban were put in the HOF today, which "percentile" would he fit in?

 

[HuGort]

PK Subban just announced his retirement.

One of the most entertaining players of his generation in my opinion, both on and off the ice. As a Habs fan - he was extremely likeable at the very least, and one of my favorites ever.

He had a great start to his career - but obviously ended up declining sooner than expected, and is now retiring pretty early at age 33. Some of the highlights of his resume:

1 Norris, and 2 other finalist nods
2x First Team all star, and one time second team all star
Great playoff performer & resume (no cups, but he had the one final in Nashville where he was one of the smythe favorites)
Olympic Gold medal - though obviously he barely played in that tournament

Does he have a chance at the hall of fame?
And how high does he rank all-time? Would he crack our top 200 player list we did a few years ago? Or if it's easier, strictly amongst defensemen - how does he measure up to the top 60 defensemen list that was done back in 2012?

Can't see it. Only had couple good years. Won Norris during short season. Last five years he was fringe NHL caliber player. Tons of negativity around him also.