PK Subban has retired - does he make the hall of fame, and where does he rank all-time?

[sr edler]

If Nashville had won the cup would Subban have won the Smythe?

If he did it would have been one of those hype Smythes where no-one in particular on the team really stands out from the rest of the pack and a player wins largely due to name recognition/popularity.

 

[MXD]

Those were more than just elite seasons

...Is that so? I have absolutely no qualms about 21-22 being elite (I wouldn't have given him the Norris, but he would have won it with that exact season in many other seasons, so fair enough), but was 20-21 that good?

Also, whoever voted Charlie McAvoy 1st last season should have his voting privileges revoked.

 

[Big Phil]

PK Subban is much, much better than Phaneuf. Regular season and playoffs, both

I don't see how he is. Playoffs sure, he's better. But overall while they had a different career arc they pretty much have the same sort of career. Both have three or so good seasons and that's about it. Much of the rest is filler. Neither belong in the HHOF. I am not an advocate for Kevin Lowe in there, but he played forever and was good defensively, and then the Cups. Both are worse than Lowe. That's not good. There isn't a case for them.

If like Subban things fall apart for Makar and Makar doesn't add anything to his trophy case after he's 23 would he get into the hall? Is two elite seasons enough if one of those seasons resulted in a Norris Smythe and Cup?

If Nashville had won the cup would Subban have won the Smythe? And does that push him over the line into the hall?

Dang, Makar is only the third guy to win the Norris, Conn Smythe and Cup in the same season. It has been a while since we saw a season as good as Makar's in 2022. Makar already has as many playoff points as Subban. I don't think there is a comparison at all. Not even close.

 

[Bombshell11]

Weber got in the HOF

I think its fair to ask ourselves if the guy he got traded for 1on1 deserves to be a HOF as well

Case:

Norris Winner
Top in pts as a D
Helped his teams reach the final once, eastern conference 3 times
One of the best Playoff performer for a D in NHL history ( hes currently top 41)
With his work in the media and in markets that hockey is unpopular he's contributing to the growth of the sports
Has donated 10 million to a hospital (pledged, donated)

 

[Michael Farkas]

Well, if that's the case, I can resume my belief that he isn't anywhere remotely close to being a HOFer.

He was a top 10 d-man for like 5 or 6 years and completely fell off a cliff the second his athleticism started to dip. Watching him (often incorrectly) try to analyze plays next to a cardboard cutout of Mr. Clean doesn't do anything but reinforce the poor hockey sense that he displayed on the ice so often...

Shea Weber fell short of Doughty for me, but I think he compares favorably to Rob Blake. P.K. Subban is getting one over on, like, Reed Larson I guess...understanding that he got a Norris from what would ordinarily be a half season's worth of work (that 2013 season keeps coming up like this haha), did he really have a better career than Sandis Ozolinsh or Steve Duchesne?

If you really value prime, ok...still, Duchesne...what does he really have on Wade Redden besides a slapshot...?

 

[JianYang]

Pk was an excellent dman at one time, and was probably trending towards hall of fame consideration.

His problem is that he fell off a cliff even before the age of 30....like real hard.

 

[MadLuke]

Will probably join Carlyle of not making it in the HHOF while winning a Norris (even Hart winner like Theodore can miss).

His longevity is not terribly bad, he was good in the playoff has a rookie in 2010 (and the WJC before that) and got a third place Norris finish in 2018, but will be on the very low end among modern elite Ds.

Gonchar for example was good so much longer, Rafalski, Letang and those won the cup.

Markov vs Subban career could be an interesting question, I feel many would take Markov career for their franchise despite the injury during his peak montreal PP under Markov was usually incredibly good and lot of the Ds that had the chance to play with him made a fortune contract wise, Markov a HHOF ?

 

[Gerulaitis]

HHOF is debatable.

All-time probably somewhere in the top 500-1,000 bracket

 

[JianYang]

Will probably join Carlyle of not making it in the HHOF while winning a Norris (even Hart winner like Theodore can miss).

His longevity is not terribly bad, he was good in the playoff has a rookie in 2010 and got third place Norris finish in 2018, but will be on the very low end among modern elite Ds.

Gonchar for example was good so much longer, Rafalski, Letang and those won the cup.

Markov vs Subban career could be an interesting question, I feel many would take Markov career for their franchise despite the injury during his peak montreal PP under Markov was usually incredibly good and lot of the Ds that had the chance to play with him made a fortune contract wise, Markov a HHOF ?

Markov unfortunately missed a huge chunk of his prime with some really freak injuries. He won't be in the hof talk and will instead be one of those "what if" scenarios. Regardless, I believe he still finished 2nd all time in Habs points by a dman behind only Larry Robinson.

I was really impressed when he came back in his 30s from so many procedures, and still was able to evolve his game and be a pretty darn good top pair guy. Subban had already flamed out before the age of 30 and couldn't adapt when his style was no longer effective.

 

[GlitchMarner]

I don't see PK as a Hall of Famer. I know he's a pretty popular and known figure for a hockey player, but there's not enough meat on the bone in his career for my liking. His Norris is probably one of the weaker ones. He fell off hard, too. He didn't merely go from being very good to okay and then not-so-great and out of the League. He was still considered a star when he suddenly became awful. It's not surprising he retired so early.

 

[Moose Head]

Being loud and obnoxious Helped JR get in. Maybe it’ll help PK. Otherwise he’s in the Giordano/Carlyle tier of Norris winners.

 

[wetcoast]

Well, if that's the case, I can resume my belief that he isn't anywhere remotely close to being a HOFer.

He was a top 10 d-man for like 5 or 6 years and completely fell off a cliff the second his athleticism started to dip. Watching him (often incorrectly) try to analyze plays next to a cardboard cutout of Mr. Clean doesn't do anything but reinforce the poor hockey sense that he displayed on the ice so often...

Shea Weber fell short of Doughty for me, but I think he compares favorably to Rob Blake. P.K. Subban is getting one over on, like, Reed Larson I guess...understanding that he got a Norris from what would ordinarily be a half season's worth of work (that 2013 season keeps coming up like this haha), did he really have a better career than Sandis Ozolinsh or Steve Duchesne?

If you really value prime, ok...still, Duchesne...what does he really have on Wade Redden besides a slapshot...?

Came here to say something like this and I like PK as he is a snazzy dresser and a real class act but he simply isn't a HHOFer maybe in the 200-300 all time for Dmen?

 

[Golden_Jet]

No he’s not getting in

 

[seventieslord]

Came here to say something like this and I like PK as he is a snazzy dresser and a real class act but he simply isn't a HHOFer maybe in the 200-300 all time for Dmen?

Top 100 I'm sure, but that's not enough.

 

[wetcoast]

Top 100 I'm sure, but that's not enough.

Could be I was just spit balling it still not HHOF worthy and off the top of my head I would have at least 50 post expansion NHLers ahead of him and then there are pre expansion and international guys not to mention at least 30 active Dmen.

 

[MadLuke]

Subban HHOF case is a bit better than his ranking of the all-time among D-men, I think.

Spectacular, Norris winner, 2009 world junior, MTL, all around quite famous, now with a media post career that everyone saw coming all along, that can make it easy to always be in the minds of the follow media involved voters (did not hurt Carbonneau, Lowe and others to have nhl involved post player career).

Say one could say McDonagh/Pietrangelo/Markov/Gonchar > Subban, while Subban has still a better HHOF case.

Not to the point that an Letang or Fleury among goaltender (winning lot of cups >>> all of the above)

 

[The Panther]

2012-13 to 2017-18, Subban was Hall of Fame-trending, for sure. In just six seasons:
-- Two X 1st-team All Star
-- One X 2nd-team All Star
-- Norris: 1, 3, 3
-- Dman scoring these six seasons:
369 - Karlsson (-17)
346 - Burns (+15)
301 - Subban (+43)
-- Also third in playoff scoring behind Keith and Letang

But by age 28, he was slipping and then quickly fell off the cliff.

He's the Mike Richter of defencemen.

 

[Crosby2010]

He shouldn't, no.

 

[Bombshell11]

Its like Jon Snow in the game of thrones... does not matter what he does, doesn't matter if he saves the world or is the best person in the world... Cathlyin will never accept him and will always favour her sons.

 

[MXD]

One thing I'm wondering is if Subban isn't in a situation where five more games by Kris Letang in 2013 means he isn't even being discussed.

 

[Michael Farkas]

A lot of folks love to use that season as full freight for a lot of things, but the reality is, we're like a week away from it all being completely different.

Hart should have been:
1. Crosby
2. Tavares
3. Ovechkin
4. Toews

Norris should have been:
1. Ryan Suter
2. Kristopher Letang
3. P.K. Subban or Francois Beauchemin

Calder should have been:
1. Jonas Brodin
2. Brendan Gallagher
3. Jonathan Huberdeau

Vezina I was pretty ok with that year actually. I don't like Niemi, but he had a surprisingly nice run. Would have pushed Rask to 4, Jimmy Howard to 5.

The Art Ross almost certainly goes another direction...

But yeah, like you said, if Sid doesn't take a puck in the mouth, maybe even Letang wins the Norris. Then that's a whole discussion and, rightfully, Subban isn't. Hell, I think Suter is in the HOF conversation and this outcome makes me seem less crazy on that...

That's the binary nature of this that's so unappealing and creates some misconceptions...

 

[MadLuke]

if Sid doesn't take a puck in the mouth, maybe even Letang wins the Norris.

Still has only a "60" games seasons, and he had 10 pts +5 in his 7 games after his injury with the Pens going 5W-2L with the Crosbyless but Letang is there Pens.