Prospect Info: Pittsburgh Penguins Prospects Thread: 2023-2024 Edition

[DesertedPenguin]

I think 10-15lbs is a 3-4 year process. He skates and moves very well. You don't want to wreck that in a year by adding 15lbs on your frame. Muscle or not.

At 170 pounds, he would be the lightest player on the team by 7 pounds, and this is not a physically imposing group.

There is no point to rushing him. He needs to play at least a little bit against older, more physically mature players.

 

[chethejet]

I think he is a number 2 type center if he can continue his progress and add the necessary 15 pounds in year 3. AT close to 6-0 and maturity to age 22, He gives the Pens a very good center in 2025. Pens will move players for picks after 2024 if Sid hangs it up. Get a ton of picks and start the rebuild.

 

[steelcityassault]

I think he is a number 2 type center if he can continue his progress and add the necessary 15 pounds in year 3. AT close to 6-0 and maturity to age 22, He gives the Pens a very good center in 2025. Pens will move players for picks after 2024 if Sid hangs it up. Get a ton of picks and start the rebuild.

Good point.. although I think we get Sid til he's 40 which would be what -2028 season

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I'm not super convinced Sid is gonna want to keep playing after his current deal is up. He'll still be able to play, sure, but at 38 and with the state of this team, I could definitely see him calling it. Nothing really driving the dude to keep up with a grueling NHL season if he's, what, seven consecutive seasons deep not having seen the 2nd round by then? Potentially three consecutive playoff misses in a row? Dunno. There's definitely a chance cuz he's a psychotic creature of habit and hockey's all he's ever known, but I wouldn't blame him for walking away and taking some FO job.

 

[Jacob]

I could see Swift Current trading Pickering since they kinda suck, and I could see Moose Jaw as a destination for him. With Firkus and Matveychuk turning pro next year and maybe a small chance Yager makes the NHL its now or never for them. MJ isn’t great but they seem to be able to win big and in bunches when they do.

In any case I hope he’s dealt to a better team.

 

[Freeptop]

Enh, that doesn't jibe with me. None of these guys were especially productive or considered especially skilled. The last player who really fit that criteria was Sprong, and we rode him out of town on a rail.

Probably not coincidentally, 2015 was the last year we drafted an NHL regular forward.

How many "especially productive or considered especially skilled" prospects do you expect to be available outside of the first round?

 

[Peat]

How many "especially productive or considered especially skilled" prospects do you expect to be available outside of the first round?

It's a lucky dip getting them. If people expect them to be that, they're not going outside the first couple rounds tops unless there's massive warts that mean even the picking team doesn't really expect it to work. See Emil Jarventie, projected first rounder at the start of last season and 7th rounder on draft day.

 

[lokomotiv15]

How many "especially productive or considered especially skilled" prospects do you expect to be available outside of the first round?

Cristall this year was the easiest lay up to fill that type description that I can ever remember.

 

[chethejet]

Well I actually wouldn't mind getting a top 10 pick this year and taking the shot next year adding some talent with 18 million of cap space plus the additions by subtractions.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

How many "especially productive or considered especially skilled" prospects do you expect to be available outside of the first round?

Some. Other teams manage.

We've had late 1st round picks too. Our drafting record since 2013 is putrid.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

How many "especially productive or considered especially skilled" prospects do you expect to be available outside of the first round?

Some. Other teams manage.

We've had late 1st round picks too. Our drafting record since 2013 is putrid.

Won’t defend the draft record, it’s been bad but they do take players that rip up their leagues/produce historically well. 2018 with Addison and Hallander and Almeida. 2019 Legare is another.

If you want an explosion post draft— Murashov and Ilyin definitely check those boxes. Puustinen as well. Poulin was going nuts in his D+1.

Edit: ofc I didn’t read earlier when they were mentioned. But these types of players fit what you want. Sprong was only there because of attitude/character concerns IIRC. Very rare you get that level of both talent and production at #41, he was ranked much higher.

 

[Gurglesons]

Some. Other teams manage.

We've had late 1st round picks too. Our drafting record since 2013 is putrid.

Usually your expecting 4 years out from where we were picking.

Coincides with when Mike Sullivan started putting his hands in this organization.

I would say the issue with our drafting is more coaching and development lately versus the actual picks.

2014 - Kapanen and Lafferty as 200+ GP guys.
2015 - Sprong and Simon as 200+ GP guys.
2016 - Gus
2018 - Addison.
2019 - Puustinen and Poulin.
2020 - Blomqvist and Clang
2021 - Broz and Belliveau
2022 - Pickering and Plante
2023 - Yager and Ilyin

We've been taking swings after the 1st round every year and even our 1st round picks project well since 2019.

 

[Peat]

Won’t defend the draft record, it’s been bad but they do take players that rip up their leagues/produce historically well. 2018 with Addison and Hallander and Almeida. 2019 Legare is another.

If you want an explosion post draft— Murashov and Ilyin definitely check those boxes. Puustinen as well. Poulin was going nuts in his D+1.

Edit: ofc I didn’t read earlier when they were mentioned. But these types of players fit what you want. Sprong was only there because of attitude/character concerns IIRC. Very rare you get that level of both talent and production at #41, he was ranked much higher.

This team has taken swings. It's taken a lot of swings since 2018. It simply hasn't got lucky with any of them yet, and in a few cases it's got unlucky to boot.

The team's failures to bring through kids is a huge issue but the philosophy since 2018 has mostly been sound.

 

[Gurglesons]

This team has taken swings. It's taken a lot of swings since 2018. It simply hasn't got lucky with any of them yet, and in a few cases it's got unlucky to boot.

The team's failures to bring through kids is a huge issue but the philosophy since 2018 has mostly been sound.

Which is what happens when you take swings after the 1st round.

Tampa hasn't gotten 40+ games out of a player since 2017
Colorado hasn't gotten 40+ games out of a player outside of their 1st rounders since 2017.
Vegas has gotten 40+ games out of two players since 2017.

Just the nature of the draft when you are a win now team.

 

[Peat]

Usually your expecting 4 years out from where we were picking.

Coincides with when Mike Sullivan started putting his hands in this organization.

I would say the issue with our drafting is more coaching and development lately versus the actual picks.

View attachment 775572

If you're going for expecting results from four years out...

You can't expect anything from 2020/21/22/23

2019 might be expected to bear results, but the 1st rounder has had huge health issues and the 3rd rounder was a bust/boom who busted, and after that it's all prayers and wishes.

2018, we picked 4 times and traded the highest pick.

2017 is the most legendarily inept on the day draft the Penguins have picked other than maybe 2016

16/17/18 are the drafts that should be bearing fruit and they absolutely sucked in terms of sending talent to WBS. Not even to the Pens - just to WBS.

It's the picks. Not the coaching, it's the picks.

 

[Gurglesons]

If you're going for expecting results from four years out...

You can't expect anything from 2020/21/22/23

2019 might be expected to bear results, but the 1st rounder has had huge health issues and the 3rd rounder was a bust/boom who busted, and after that it's all prayers and wishes.

2018, we picked 4 times and traded the highest pick.

2017 is the most legendarily inept on the day draft the Penguins have picked other than maybe 2016

16/17/18 are the drafts that should be bearing fruit and they absolutely sucked in terms of sending talent to WBS. Not even to the Pens - just to WBS.

It's the picks. Not the coaching, it's the picks.

2016 we picked what was a Vezina trophy finalist last year.
2017 joke draft.
2018. Addison was a great pick.

I have a personal philosophy that drafts in cup winning years are essentially throw aways. I don't get the hate people throw at our drafting to be honest.

Puustinen is 100% on the coach. There is no reason he should not be getting a shot.

 

[Peat]

2016 we picked what was a Vezina trophy finalist last year.
2017 joke draft.
2018. Addison was a great pick.

I have a personal philosophy that drafts in cup winning years are essentially throw aways. I don't get the hate people throw at our drafting to be honest.

We traded away Addison and Gustavsson. Maybe you can use them as arguments that the Pens have drafted okay, but they're not arguments that the pipeline failings are due to coaching and development.

 

[Gurglesons]

We traded away Addison and Gustavsson. Maybe you can use them as arguments that the Pens have drafted okay, but they're not arguments that the pipeline failings are due to coaching and development.

What are the expectations of a team that has no 1st round picks and traded their 2nd round picks in other deals?

Hallander can't be an argument? Lafferty and Sprong?

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Which is what happens when you take swings after the 1st round.

Tampa hasn't gotten 40+ games out of a player since 2017
Colorado hasn't gotten 40+ games out of a player outside of their 1st rounders since 2017.
Vegas has gotten 40+ games out of two players since 2017.

Just the nature of the draft when you are a win now team.

And check out Cotter’s DY, DY+1, DY+2 stats

Paul Cotter - Stats, Contract, Salary & More

Eliteprospects.com hockey player profile of Paul Cotter, 1999-11-16 Canton, MI, USA USA. Most recently in the NHL with New Jersey Devils. Complete player biography and stats.

www.eliteprospects.com

Def not a guy that ripped up the CHL or a swing on skill.

 

[Jacob]

I think sometimes it's okay to look for bottom 6ers in the late rounds if they project to be *good* ones. Craig Adams's aren't hard to find, but good role players are valuable. Tanev or Nick Paul types. I'd lean towards maximum upside and offensive skills but if there's a 6'3" kid that skates well and plays like a bull but he's got cement hands, that's still intriguing.

 

[steelcityassault]

I'm not super convinced Sid is gonna want to keep playing after his current deal is up. He'll still be able to play, sure, but at 38 and with the state of this team, I could definitely see him calling it. Nothing really driving the dude to keep up with a grueling NHL season if he's, what, seven consecutive seasons deep not having seen the 2nd round by then? Potentially three consecutive playoff misses in a row? Dunno. There's definitely a chance cuz he's a psychotic creature of habit and hockey's all he's ever known, but I wouldn't blame him for walking away and taking some FO job.

I don't think he's taking a front office job to make less money, when he can probably at that point still put up at worst a little below a PPG. Play while you can

 

[Gurglesons]

I don't think he's taking a front office job to make less money, when he can probably at that point still put up at worst a little below a PPG. Play while you can

he recently said he is hoping to play for a long time in several different publications.

 

[The Old Master]

Well I actually wouldn't mind getting a top 10 pick this year and taking the shot next year adding some talent with 18 million of cap space plus the additions by subtractions.

that cap space is not going to help much. (i would use it to take on a bad contract for a high pick maybe) we are going to be worse than this year. doesn't seem like a smart move to me. ..... unless we end up really bad.

 

[Ulf5]

Here’s all 3

That 2nd goal was sweet. Almost Sid like. Obviously not skill wise. But puck awareness, determination and getting the puck where it needs to be.

 

[Peat]

What are the expectations of a team that has no 1st round picks and traded their 2nd round picks in other deals?

Hallander can't be an argument? Lafferty and Sprong?

If there's no expectations, why blame it on coaching and development?