Prospect Info: Pittsburgh Penguins Prospects Thread: 2023-2024 Edition

[Michael Farkas]

All right, here's your video...please try to enjoy. If you want...maybe not everyone likes to enjoy, and that's ok too.

 

[Jacob]

All right, here's your video...please try to enjoy. If you want...maybe not everyone likes to enjoy, and that's ok too.

Looks great, will be watching on company time tomorrow.

 

[Malkinstheman]

All right, here's your video...please try to enjoy. If you want...maybe not everyone likes to enjoy, and that's ok too.

Appreciate the video but damn I was hoping to hear a couple positives at least

 

[Michael Farkas]

Sorry haha

Well, I'm sure there's a couple in there. But that's why I try to show my work. It's shift by shift (plus I'm sure there are highlight videos out there) and people can derive positivity from it where ever they can.

I'm actually a little hopeful because he doesn't look very strong, but he can actually hit guys. And his skating looks kinda weak, but he's also sort of fighting against himself in some ways too. I'm not even concerned with getting him in all the games in the AHL this year. If he needs to sit here and there (not a ton, but a bit) to get some extra gym time in, watch a couple games from above with a coach or someone that knows what's going on, or even get called up to work with Ty and Sid for a bit...

Contrary to the prevailing thought here, the feeling around the league - and it's generally right - is that Pittsburgh has been a premier development organization. Last in drafting, but very good at salvaging players.

The organization is basically one of those doofuses that takes a paper clip and trades it and trades it and trades it...and then after 20 trades, they end up with a recliner or whatever...that's us. Except, the entire time we have a recliner's worth of money in our wallet and our father is an upholsterer...

 

[Kasperi kapanen]

All right, here's your video...please try to enjoy. If you want...maybe not everyone likes to enjoy, and that's ok too.

Definitely interesting… I dont agree with some points but appreciate the insight.

 

[Gurglesons]

Sorry haha

Well, I'm sure there's a couple in there. But that's why I try to show my work. It's shift by shift (plus I'm sure there are highlight videos out there) and people can derive positivity from it where ever they can.

I'm actually a little hopeful because he doesn't look very strong, but he can actually hit guys. And his skating looks kinda weak, but he's also sort of fighting against himself in some ways too. I'm not even concerned with getting him in all the games in the AHL this year. If he needs to sit here and there (not a ton, but a bit) to get some extra gym time in, watch a couple games from above with a coach or someone that knows what's going on, or even get called up to work with Ty and Sid for a bit...

Contrary to the prevailing thought here, the feeling around the league - and it's generally right - is that Pittsburgh has been a premier development organization. Last in drafting, but very good at salvaging players.

The organization is basically one of those doofuses that takes a paper clip and trades it and trades it and trades it...and then after 20 trades, they end up with a recliner or whatever...that's us. Except, the entire time we have a recliner's worth of money in our wallet and our father is an upholsterer...

I'm going to watch the rest of the video, but the first clip is about an unintentionally failed forced icing and like.. he's already a mainstay on the team then bro.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

All right, here's your video...please try to enjoy. If you want...maybe not everyone likes to enjoy, and that's ok too.

Main takeaway- you HATE Levshuvnov

Good to hear someone else share my sentiments on Yager

Agree with your scouting report of McG the prospect in the video, just don’t see eye to eye on upside but that’s ok (I’d have him much higher than 2nd round range in his DY). I enjoy these though.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Levshunov can kick rocks. I'm not saying he's not gonna play, I'm not even saying he won't be good...but he's a very weird style of player that has to fit into the right situation to be harnessed...I'm not sure Chicago has that.

And yeah, that's totally fair. Like I said, if you're gonna be a top 2 round guy for me, I generally need some dynamic elements. To use a real name, I was more comfortable drafting Seamus Casey at 14th that year than McGroarty. But no matter, I'm obviously rooting for this kid to spike up and become Kevin Stevens as opposed to Eric Tangradi. There's pieces that can be molded into a plus player.

 

[Jesse]

Well, most of them don't make it, so...haha

That's probably the biggest change I've made in my evaluation. When I first started making lists, they were miles long..."well, he could make it as a third unit penalty killing defenseman...if they brought back the old Boston Garden sized rink...and forwards were forced to wear parachutes..."

Instead it's "why would you play in the NHL over a guy that's already there?" My whole draftable American list this year (USHL, NCAA, Prep) was like ~25 names.

Wasn't but a decade ago that we were doing 3-round mocks together. Those days are long behind me.

 

[Andy99]

All right, here's your video...please try to enjoy. If you want...maybe not everyone likes to enjoy, and that's ok too.

Yeah, I’ve been skeptical of trading Yager for this guy…I’d rather have a prospect with a A+ special shot than a guy with a B game if he can’t produce offensively…Yager has the better chance to be special imo

 

[Al Smith]

Levshunov can kick rocks. I'm not saying he's not gonna play, I'm not even saying he won't be good...but he's a very weird style of player that has to fit into the right situation to be harnessed...I'm not sure Chicago has that.

And yeah, that's totally fair. Like I said, if you're gonna be a top 2 round guy for me, I generally need some dynamic elements. To use a real name, I was more comfortable drafting Seamus Casey at 14th that year than McGroarty. But no matter, I'm obviously rooting for this kid to spike up and become Kevin Stevens as opposed to Eric Tangradi. There's pieces that can be molded into a plus player.

The prototype forward for Pens' molding effort, sans maybe Guentzel, is Mike Sullivan the player.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Yeah, I’ve been skeptical of trading Yager for this guy…I’d rather have a prospect with a A+ special shot than a guy with a B game if he can’t produce offensively…Yager has the better chance to be special imo

I think this is fair. McGroarty has a shot too. Not as good as Yager's, but it's a plus.

The prototype forward for Pens' molding effort, sans maybe Guentzel, is Mike Sullivan the player.

The key is: 6 Dan Bylsma's and 6 Craig Adams's's. (Crosby as the extra/13th forward). Then we'd really be grinding some b****** down...

 

[Gurglesons]

I think this is fair. McGroarty has a shot too. Not as good as Yager's, but it's a plus.

You've alluded to "having a unique skill that will make a coach give you a spot over someone that is already NHL ready". I think McGroarty's general demeanor and compete are that to me and put him over Yager from my perspective.

He's the type of player that I think Mike Sullivan will love.

Yager likely would've been in the dog house similar to Jared McCann.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I know it's only one highlight package (albeit from a very smart/trusted source) but none of Rutger's skillset is really jumping out and screaming "NHL ready" to me. He doesn't even seem nearly as rugged/hard nosed as advertised and if I'm being honest maybe even a little weak. At the very least I think the people penciling him into the top line need to pump the breaks pretty hard.

His hands in general definitely seem pretty suspect. And then there's that skating...

 

[Jesse]

I know it's only one highlight package (albeit from a very smart/trusted source) but none of Rutger's skillset is really jumping out and screaming "NHL ready" to me. He doesn't even seem nearly as rugged/hard nosed as advertised and if I'm being honest maybe even a little weak. At the very least I think the people penciling him into the top line need to pump the breaks pretty hard.

His hands in general definitely seem pretty suspect. And then there's that skating...

I gotta disagree on some of this. I've never really gotten the impression his hands aren't ready. He's taken care of some tidy work in the top of the right circle on the power-play and showcased enough for me there that is translatable to the next level. I don't think dangle-ability, for lack of a better term, is really his calling card. He doesn't have the speed to drive wide, gain speed, and tuck a toedrag on someone. That's not really his thing.

Farkas and I were talking about this last night, but he isn't the traditional case of poor skating to me, either. While he almost certainly lacks in show-level burst or top speed, I think that 1. He's discernibly improved year over year and hasn't shown signs of plateau yet and 2. His ability to cut, reverse pivot, etc is way better than a Sam Poulin or similar bigger players that struggled with agility or awkward strides.

I think he's fairly physical too. I have lots of examples I've extracted from last year of his physicality being effective on the forecheck. Not the wasteful kind of hitting that is just finishing a check with the puck 15 feet away, either. I mena the kind that causes turnovers. Separating man from puck.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

You guys for sure would know better than myself and have no doubt spent many hours watching footage. But I think this idea of fast-tracking him straight to the top line (or maybe even the NHL in general) is maybe a little misguided. Nothing I've seen so far has suggested to me that he's a special talent who doesn't have anything to work on at the AHL level and can just skip that step. He looks like a guy that has some really interesting raw attributes that need more work to hopefully tease out. But again... this is just me watching what is put in front of me so far and comparing it to the players I've seen come and go over the years.

TBH he looks closer to a Tangradi than Stevens or whatever.

EDIT: The thing that really got me shaking my head a little is Farkas pointing out how much he kinda just... pushes the puck around. His hockey IQ (especially in-zone) doesn't strike me as quite high enough to compensate for what looks like somewhat limited puck skills.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Yeah, as someone who really wanted the Pens to pick McGroarty in his draft year and someone who was stoked to see Dubas land him, I think people expecting him to just fit right in with a notoriously finicky Sid is setting the kid up for incredible failure.

 

[Jesse]

You guys for sure would know better than myself and have no doubt spent many hours watching footage. But I think this idea of fast-tracking him straight to the top line (or maybe even the NHL in general) is maybe a little misguided. Nothing I've seen so far has suggested to me that he's a special talent who doesn't have anything to work on at the AHL level and can just skip that step. He looks like a guy that has some really interesting raw attributes that need more work to hopefully tease out. But again... this is just me watching what is put in front of me so far and comparing it to the players I've seen come and go over the years.

TBH he looks closer to a Tangradi than Stevens or whatever.

EDIT: The thing that really got me shaking my head a little is Farkas pointing out how much he kinda just... pushes the puck around. His hockey IQ (especially in-zone) doesn't strike me as quite high enough to compensate for what looks like somewhat limited puck skills.

I think you are spot on in your assessment in the middle of your first paragraph. I don't think this is a completed, polished product. What makes camp such an interesting situation this year is getting to see if he's graduated to a point where he can keep up and process the play at the next level.

Chris Kunitz once said the hardest thing he ever did was listen to post-shift feedback from Crosby on the bench. Crosby would be asking Kunitz to react a certain way in the the most minutiae of situations and it was really hard to keep up with that. Information overload. If someone has to expend a lot of mental energy just to keep up with the play, they likely aren't gonna be in a situation where they can also process that kind of feedback simultaneously.

I don't think it will take very long for the writing to show up on the wall in either direction.

 

[Michael Farkas]

I know it's only one highlight package (albeit from a very smart/trusted source)

Ugh, someone else made one already...?

At the very least I think the people penciling him into the top line need to pump the breaks pretty hard.

His hands in general definitely seem pretty suspect. And then there's that skating...

Yeah, I agree. Unless, of course, he had a super summer. He has access to Darryl Belfry and some other guys, but I'm not sure what his summer program looks like.

Re: Jesse's post. I don't think he's going to be dangerous 1 on 1, and I don't need him to be. My thing is, and I said it in the video, how good of a playmaker can you be if you don't cause the defense to think. No-pressure and standing-still stickhandling don't do it for me because there's no dynamic element to that, there's no skill chaining aspect there. So, he can't freeze or break the stride of even a penalty killer. So, he's prone to inviting speed onto the pass recipient.

Also, if he's going to be the third guy on a line...and he's gonna muck it up. What happens on puck retrievals if he can't buy himself a few milliseconds to back off a defender? He's probably gonna lose it again, with only his reach to save him.

And he's not done here. I'm really focused on him playing on this team day one. I don't see that. But he has scalable pieces, but they need work. His whole game isn't so abstract that it's hard to see how it would work either. I think he has some "outs" that can be beneficial, no question.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I think you are spot on in your assessment in the middle of your first paragraph. I don't think this is a completed, polished product. What makes camp such an interesting situation this year is getting to see if he's graduated to a point where he can keep up and process the play at the next level.

Chris Kunitz once said the hardest thing he ever did was listen to post-shift feedback from Crosby on the bench. Crosby would be asking Kunitz to react a certain way in the the most minutiae of situations and it was really hard to keep up with that. Information overload. If someone has to expend a lot of mental energy just to keep up with the play, they likely aren't gonna be in a situation where they can also process that kind of feedback simultaneously.

I don't think it will take very long for the writing to show up on the wall in either direction.

That's more than fair.

I wonder if expectations have been set re: where he will play? I hope not. But considering PT/role was a big sticking point (from what I understand) in Winnipeg, I have to wonder if there will be friction if the determination is that he needs time in the AHL. I feel like that's kinda what he wanted to avoid? Perhaps I've misread the situation and he just didn't want to be in Winnipeg in general.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Ugh, someone else made one already...?

Yeah, I agree. Unless, of course, he had a super summer. He has access to Darryl Belfry and some other guys, but I'm not sure what his summer program looks like.

Re: Jesse's post. I don't think he's going to be dangerous 1 on 1, and I don't need him to be. My thing is, and I said it in the video, how good of a playmaker can you be if you don't cause the defense to think. No-pressure and standing-still stickhandling don't do it for me because there's no dynamic element to that, there's no skill chaining aspect there. So, he can't freeze or break the stride of even a penalty killer. So, he's prone to inviting speed onto the pass recipient.

Also, if he's going to be the third guy on a line...and he's gonna muck it up. What happens on puck retrievals if he can't buy himself a few milliseconds to back off a defender? He's probably gonna lose it again, with only his reach to save him.

And he's not done here. I'm really focused on him playing on this team day one. I don't see that. But he has scalable pieces, but they need work. His whole game isn't so abstract that it's hard to see how it would work either. I think he has some "outs" that can be beneficial, no question.

Yeah I just can't help but see a work in progress. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that like... at all. But I absolutely do not see a guy who can seamlessly move straight to the NHL and fit right in even on THIS team's top nine. But hey... I would relish being wrong and there have definitely been cases before of players that don't put together a very glitzy highlight package but just... make it work. Ya know?

Also thanks for your hard work on these reports and your insight. It's appreciated.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

Woof, I got through it, but that was tough.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Meant to add caption that McG says he was not given spot (who knows if true)

 

[Pancakes]

I don't think it will take very long for the writing to show up on the wall in either direction.

Yeah I mean this is the crux of the matter for me. If he's ready (or not) it will be obvious very quickly at camp. Agree with Michael that there's no reason to force him into the NHL if he doesn't look good in camp. He should have to earn a spot, 100%.

The lack of deception with his hands/skating reminds me a lot of Drew O'Connor actually. DOC struggles with the same things where he just has very little deception to his game and sometimes catches pucks awkwardly on the breakout. DOC makes up for that by having a powerful skating stride with good speed, but even with that good skating he still struggles sometimes to create separation from defenders due to that lack of deception to his game.

Bader's model has Rutger at 80% to become an NHLer and 15% to become a star so still seems like the Pens did alright on paper here. And Rutger's college production seems to have trended the right way so far.

Very interested to see how this kid looks at camp.